henrywalker Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I was just looking at the new deployment maps and noticed that there is one that has us fighting end to end. in this situation it would be great to have a unit of TWC outflanking right at the far end, it would be unexpected to say the least and quicker than running them from your own deployment zone. as far as i can interpret the new rules we can take a wolf guard battle leader with saga of the hunter joined to a TWC unit. of course he cant move as fast as the TWC so he will be splitting off from the TWC ASAP. they cant assault first turn anyway. this seems to be an interesting idea, any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I was just looking at the new deployment maps and noticed that there is one that has us fighting end to end. in this situation it would be great to have a unit of TWC outflanking right at the far end, it would be unexpected to say the least and quicker than running them from your own deployment zone. as far as i can interpret the new rules we can take a wolf guard battle leader with saga of the hunter joined to a TWC unit. of course he cant move as fast as the TWC so he will be splitting off from the TWC ASAP. they cant assault first turn anyway. this seems to be an interesting idea, any thoughts? This one just depends on how the debate on whether an IC with the Outflank rule can pass it on to a unit that he joins. That thread was closed today, so let's not reopen it here. You could, however, take it over to the OR subforum and see what the broader BnC community has to say about it. If most concur that this is how it should work, then yes, you could join your Infantry Battle Leader with Saga of the Hunter to a unit of TWC and keep them in reserve, and enter via Outflank (with reroll to the chart for Acute Senses). Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 whys there a debate, that rules pretty clear? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I would suggest to use a Wolf Priest instead of the WGBL. He comes with some gear and stealth plus preferred enemy. With acute senses you can reroll the side you come from, so very likely you dont even have to split the unit. Every member can now move at different max speeds as long as you keep coherency. Additionally you might add a Rune Priest to the unit to provide 5+ cover (4+ with stealth!), psychic disruption and occasionallly JotW. So what about this: Wolf Priest, Combi Melta, Meltabombs - 115pts Rune Priest, Combi Melta, Meltabombs, Runic Armour - 135pts 5 TWC, 4xMeltabombs, Powerfist - 300pts ------- 550pts :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The bigger debate is how is a non-TWM model joining a unit of TWC IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 why Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 because of the rules for TWC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Well, then let`s get that one done: 1. Characters on Wolves can not join units other then Thunderwolves or Fenriswolves. (Page 62) 2. Characters that aren`t mounted have no restrictions of joining TWC in the whole Codex and the new FAQ. Therefor you may join a walking Character to TWC. Fluffwise a walking character propably has enough authority to keep TWC at bay, while normal troopers don`t. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Well, then let`s get that one done: 1. Characters on Wolves can not join units other then Thunderwolves or Fenriswolves. (Page 62) 2. Characters that aren`t mounted have no restrictions of joining TWC in the whole Codex and the new FAQ. Therefor you may join a walking Character to TWC. Exactly correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elithren Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 You'll want to reread saga of the hunter. Only infantry models can take it and TWC says it changes the unit type to cavalry, so no outflanking TWC battle leader on mount. Gotta hoof it. Quick edit: I completely misread the OP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 You'll want to reread saga of the hunter. Only infantry models can take it and TWC says it changes the unit type to cavalry, so no outflanking TWC battle leader on mount. Gotta hoof it. Quick edit: I completely misread the OP. If I read the OP correctly, he isn't mounting the character at all, he is footslogging while attached to the mounted TWC unit. Therefor, he can still take SotH, and potentially pass it on to the squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 You'll want to reread saga of the hunter. Only infantry models can take it and TWC says it changes the unit type to cavalry, so no outflanking TWC battle leader on mount. Gotta hoof it. Quick edit: I completely misread the OP. If I read the OP correctly, he isn't mounting the character at all, he is footslogging while attached to the mounted TWC unit. Therefor, he can still take SotH, and potentially pass it on to the squad. That's right, he isn't planning on mounting the Battle Leader at all - so, just attaching an Infantry IC to a TWC unit for the purposes of leading them around to Outflank the enemy formation, then splitting off, probably, after they arrive. So, there shouldn't really be any debate about his ability to attach to that unit; the debate is about whether he can actually pass along his ability to Outflank to them. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3108939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 it does clearly state in the rule book that only one member of the unit needs to have outflank in order for the unit to outflank. fluff wise i rather like the idea of useless TWC having to be led by someone to show them the way. "here doggy *whistle*" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik84 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 im sure this has been FAQ'ed? i'll have to dig mine out and find it. also, i had this happen to me, well sort of, i played a doubles tourny and one guy had space wolves and the other had codex marine, the space wolve army was made up of 2 lords on wolves with 5 twc and the codex marine player taken shrike and joined the twc, giving this death star fleet of foot rule, safe to say that they had first turn and assaulted me on turnone and pritty much finished the game off in turn 3. this was 5th ed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgambit Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I actually model my old wulfen on a 60 meter base side by side with a fenrisian wolf to represent my TWC for my 13th company army. I'd love to take just a stock 5 man unit with a wolf priest attached to outflank them. I could see that as my Sternhammer+Wulfen unit. I know our scouts are not as good now since they can not assault from outflanking but with theme in mind I'm still trying to find ways to have a more mobile outflanking foot army like the 13th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Page 39: Independent Characters Unless specified in the rule itself (as in Stubborn special rule), the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit. But... Outflank says as long as one model in the unit has the special rule you can outflank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 it does clearly state in the rule book that only one member of the unit needs to have outflank in order for the unit to outflank. fluff wise i rather like the idea of useless TWC having to be led by someone to show them the way. "here doggy *whistle*" +1 P40 BRB in Outflank players may declare that any unit that that contains at least one model with this special rule is attempting to outflank Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 We will not debate whether an IC can use saga of the hunter and confer it to a non outflanking pack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 We will not debate whether an IC can use saga of the hunter and confer it to a non outflanking pack. Some people don't read all the SW threads to realize you've already closed one that dealt with this exact same RAW vs RAI issue. If they did, they might consider reading it instead of rehashing it, and might stay on topic. /passiveaggressive Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 We will not debate whether an IC can use saga of the hunter and confer it to a non outflanking pack. Some people don't read all the SW threads to realize you've already closed one that dealt with this exact same RAW vs RAI issue. If they did, they might consider reading it instead of rehashing it, and might stay on topic. /passiveaggressive They don't have to. I just made the statement now. Which means there should not be any more posts about it after my statement. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 We will not debate whether an IC can use saga of the hunter and confer it to a non outflanking pack. I'm sorry if I'm being exceptionally dense, but why is this issue off-limits for debate and If they did, they might consider reading it instead of rehashing it, and might stay on topic. how is it off-topic from the OPs question? as far as i can interpret the new rules we can take a wolf guard battle leader with saga of the hunter joined to a TWC unit. of course he cant move as fast as the TWC so he will be splitting off from the TWC ASAP. they cant assault first turn anyway. this seems to be an interesting idea, any thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I'm sorry if I'm being exceptionally dense, but why is this issue off-limits for debate and It was on the atomic merry go round of doom of debate. The only possible gaming resolution is a FAQ or a dice off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I'm sorry if I'm being exceptionally dense, but why is this issue off-limits for debate and It was on the atomic merry go round of doom of debate. The only possible gaming resolution is a FAQ or a dice off. Out of respect for Lord Rags' wishes, I opened up a thread about it over in the Official Rules subforum, which is probably a much better spot to discuss it. For one thing, it opens up the debate to a broader community than usually inhabit The Fang. I, for one, would like to get the perspectives and arguments from those that might have different opinions. I'm all for making use of the Saga of the Hunter ability, but I want to be damned sure I'm on the right side of this before I use it against an opponent in a friendly pickup game at the LGS. Best regards, V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255496-twc-outflanking/#findComment-3109516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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