The new power weapon rules

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

well thats down to tourny runners to make sure that lists have what kiind of power weapon writen down, before the event starts, to stop that from happening.

 

my space wolve army is full of power axes, id rather not have that many, so i will be writening down on my list who has what, so for the smaller axes i'll say there power sword, ap3, for the larger over the top axes, there either a frost axe or a power axe. depending on the unit.

And then you run into someone like me, who learned the hard way to be careful about WYSIWYG (moved to an area full of tournament gamers).

 

An axe is an axe, if it's small it's a hatchet and still an axe.

[Valerian]

Just writing power weapon just counts as the stock standard ap3 weapon

 

Willy, one of the points to this whole thread is that there is no such thing as a "stock standard AP3 weapon". You've only got 5 choices: Sword, Axe, Maul, Lance, or Unusual (which is AP3 and has rules in the relevant codex or codex FAQ/Errata/Amendment).

 

Everyone ought to know of they paid for an Unusual weapon, based on codex. For all others, you look at the model. It's really as simple as that.

 

Regards,

 

V

[Lord Ragnarok]

I really don't like this direction on forcing wysiwyg. My Codex Relictors honour guard is quite fluffy with an assorted cadre of Chaotic weaponry. What would you say these guys are wielding? To me they are one relic blade and 4 power weapons.

Artukus Bardane (Pedro Cantor) has a power fist which is a count as Daemonic Blade. Which to me is unwieldy but extremely powerful.

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/hansmannstein/General%20Crap/20120704_131905.jpg

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I really don't like this direction on forcing wysiwyg. My Codex Relictors honour guard is quite fluffy with an assorted cadre of Chaotic weaponry. What would you say these guys are wielding? To me they are one relic blade and 4 power weapons.

Artukus Bardane (Pedro Cantor) has a power fist which is a count as Daemonic Blade. Which to me is unwieldy but extremely powerful.

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/hansmannstein/General%20Crap/20120704_131905.jpg

Well, for one I see 2 chainswords. No way those will get to play at being power swords.

 

And I'm this strict because I've been on the receiving end of people abusing the rule. If it's not on the model (excepting grenades), it's not there.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I really don't like this direction on forcing wysiwyg. My Codex Relictors honour guard is quite fluffy with an assorted cadre of Chaotic weaponry. What would you say these guys are wielding? To me they are one relic blade and 4 power weapons.

Artukus Bardane (Pedro Cantor) has a power fist which is a count as Daemonic Blade. Which to me is unwieldy but extremely powerful.

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/hansmannstein/General%20Crap/20120704_131905.jpg

Well, for one I see 2 chainswords. No way those will get to play at being power swords.

 

And I'm this strict because I've been on the receiving end of people abusing the rule. If it's not on the model (excepting grenades), it's not there.

 

And both sides of that take the fun out. Those who would abuse the rules and then the draconian measures to keep folks in line.

 

That said, as codex honour guard come with power weapons as standard and you can't get rid of them, I don't think that the above could be disallowed. But for models with the flexibility of options folks need to understand their creativity will have new limits.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

And that takes all the fun out of it.

Why? Why does that take all the fun out if it? Because I'd refuse you to use an item that is demonstrably Item X as Item Y that isn't even similar enough for the two to be confused at a glance?

 

It's the rules. If actually playing by said rules is such an onerous task, I suggest playing something else, like Flames of War (most people would easily confuse a Pzkw IV G and H).

[Lord Ragnarok]

I'm sure it's easy for you to understand. I modeled something a certain way and I see no reason to model it differently due to paranoia. Luckily my area has more folks who care about fun gaming vs cheating/counter cheating.

 

Also, it would actually be breaking the rules if I changed the power weapon to a chainsword. I think this allowable for honour guard models. Unless I'm missing something.

 

 

What occurred with the abuse during your game/s. How was it allowed to go unpunished? Was this in a tourney?

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I'm sure it's easy for you to understand. I modeled something a certain way and I see no reason to model it differently due to paranoia. Luckily my area has more folks who care about fun gaming vs cheating/counter cheating.

Has nothing to do with paranoia, and everything to do with me wanting to be able to look at your stuff and know what it is so I avoid incidents confusion. This is especially an issue with stuff like power weapons and melta.

 

If I want a power fist, I model a power fist. If I want a power sword or evicerator, I can't just grab a chainsword.

 

What occurred with the abuse during your game/s. How was it allowed to go unpunished? Was this in a tourney?

It wasn't allowed to go unpunished, and it stopped very quickly when word got around. And no, not a tourney, but the players who did it were rules laywers in every other respect except this one, so you can imagine their character.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Has nothing to do with paranoia, and everything to do with me wanting to be able to look at your stuff and know what it is so I avoid incidents confusion. This is especially an issue with stuff like power weapons and melta.

 

If I want a power fist, I model a power fist. If I want a power sword or evicerator, I can't just grab a chainsword.

 

Right, again limiting. Encourages restrictive"in the box thinking", which makes it un-fun for many who like the creativity of conversions/count as. I do understand the point about wanting things to look like it should without having to guess on every model in the game. But my honour guard is the only unique element (as it should be being a Relictor Command Unit) where I need some creativity and out of the box thinking with the weapons.

 

That said, the new rules are the new rules. Although I did not see GW make a statement that there is no more count as are we presuming these new weapon identification rules is killing count as?

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Right, again limiting. Encourages restrictive"in the box thinking", which makes it un-fun for many who like the creativity of conversions/count as. I do understand the point about wanting things to look like it should without having to guess on every model in the game. But my honour guard is the only unique element (as it should be being a Relictor Command Unit) where I need some creativity and out of the box thinking with the weapons.

 

That said, the new rules are the new rules. Although I did not see GW make a statement that there is no more count as are we presuming these new weapon identification rules is killing count as?

The whole game suddenly becomes "un-fun" because someone might not go along with a chainsword being a power weapon? Really? ^_^

 

And there is plenty of options for being creative without putting chainswords up as power weapons or power fists as daemon weapons. Hell, I get creative myself, but I still manage to stick to the very basic idea that isd WYSIWYG.

[Grey Mage]

I think the issue is that with the right paint job they could have the appearance of a powerweapon- that happens to be a chain weapon too, like frostblades.

 

And that all of this was perfectly reasonable under 5th edition. Now people who chose things simply for aesthetic are feeling quite boxed up by it, and will need somet ime to adjust and/or roll with the punches. It happens every edition.

 

Though I agree, it is restricting from a modeling point of veiw.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Right, again limiting. Encourages restrictive"in the box thinking", which makes it un-fun for many who like the creativity of conversions/count as. I do understand the point about wanting things to look like it should without having to guess on every model in the game. But my honour guard is the only unique element (as it should be being a Relictor Command Unit) where I need some creativity and out of the box thinking with the weapons.

 

That said, the new rules are the new rules. Although I did not see GW make a statement that there is no more count as are we presuming these new weapon identification rules is killing count as?

The whole game suddenly becomes "un-fun" because someone might not go along with a chainsword being a power weapon? Really? ;)

 

And there is plenty of options for being creative without putting chainswords up as power weapons or power fists as daemon weapons. Hell, I get creative myself, but I still manage to stick to the very basic idea that isd WYSIWYG.

 

The whole game suddenly becomes "un-fun" because someone might not go along with a chainsword being a power weapon? Really? :huh:

 

One aspect of the game. Please do not assume my opinions based on that hyperbole.

 

 

And there is plenty of options for being creative without putting chainswords up as power weapons or power fists as daemon weapons. Hell, I get creative myself, but I still manage to stick to the very basic idea that isd WYSIWYG.

Well yes, if I allow someone decide what I feel is creative. Sure, that would be fine, I guess......

I could also say there are plenty of players who will go well and beyond to explain each and every model to remind you that of their count as nature and not to type cast the rest of the players who are being more creative with modelling. Surely your area is not rampant with the bad apple you found?

 

I will allow you the last retort and we will agree to disagree.

 

 

 

Though I agree, it is restricting from a modeling point of veiw.

 

Which I think is based on the fan base interpreting the inclusion of new weapon types and the comment to look at the model. Does not mean you can have an agreement between players or a group that they can explain any count as and stick to it. That is why I made my comment about the assumption of no more count as.

 

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I do agree about painting it with glowing effects. Which I have no problem with since they should oooze daemonic power. Luckily, I've not painted them.

[asianavatar]

Can I modify my Death Cult Assassin models to have one power sword and one power axe in order to take advantage of the rules about having different melee weapons equipped

 

So, how would you split the attacks???

[thade]

I'm with Lord Rag. If someone I game with tells me that a clearly distinguishable axe counts as a powerfist for an easy to spot model, why wouldn't that be cool? I'd allow it. Virtually anybody I game with would too.

 

When you attack me, tell me the number of hits, the AP, and whatever else matters. If cheating is a concern, play with somebody else. <3

[JamesI]

Can I modify my Death Cult Assassin models to have one power sword and one power axe in order to take advantage of the rules about having different melee weapons equipped

 

So, how would you split the attacks???

You don't. You pick if you want to fight that turn with the power axe or the power sword.

[King Willy]

As to the power weapon thing I meant that thats what I'd write in my list due to old habit.

 

 

And the counts as, No problem as long as either A you can vaguely tell if it's an Axe, Blunt, Lance or anything else, B you tell me as I charge.

 

The multiple power weapons you get to chose according to an email Jacinda sent.

 

And depends who I'm playing, if I know them chances are we won't care, but I play enough douche bags who won't let my CSM use two CCW cause I modeled a bolter on it.

[JamesI]

And depends who I'm playing, if I know them chances are we won't care, but I play enough douche bags who won't let my CSM use two CCW cause I modeled a bolter on it.

They are cheating as the rules are clear that you have it.

[King Willy]

Oh yeah I called his ass out on that and then dominated is little Puppie Razorspam with my DP.

[facmanpob]

I magnetise a lot of weapons, so that if I want a particluar model to run around with a maul or sword or axe etc I simply swap out the weapon arm. I realise, however, that not everybody can or wants to do that. So, if I'm facing a friend and he says, "this tactical squad sergeant is carrying a power maul, even though it looks like a sword, cos I want to see what mauls are like for this game. Is that OK?"....I say "no problems" cos I know he'll jog my memory about counts-as models as the game progresses, the same as I would if I was running any counts-as. Its a friendly game, and should be played that way.

 

The issue arises when people pay competetively, and that element of competition is allowed to override the fun aspect of the game.....i.e. win at all costs. If I was involved in a game with that sort of opponent, then I would have to apply WYSIWYG across the board, and if it looks like a maul, then it is a maul.

 

As a judge once said in a summing up "just because you call this long-handled, 4-pronged digging implement a spade, doesn't mean its not actually a fork!" :)

[DarkGuard]

The thing is, there's a different between trying something out for a couple of games because you don't want to buy a new model, and just breaking the rules again and again. If I get to the 10th time of my opponent saying"this sword is a power maul", by then I'm wondering why he hasn't converted it to be a power maul or not. I'll probably still let him use it as such, but it'll be annoying.

 

As you said, the rule problems come competitively, although, might I add, that competitiveness does not override fun. I know a tonne of competitive gamers who are somewhat WAAC, but they're cool guys not just off the tabletop but also on it, and have fun by playing competitively.