Dante, The Sanguinor and Sanguinary Guard

[JamesI]

I just recieved 2 emails from GW.

 

First from GWUS, saying they can't answer rules questions. The second I will quote below.

 

Good Morning James

 

Thanks for the email about the New Warhammer 40'000 rules. We would be happy to answer your questions about the new Warhammer 40'000 rules, Are you running a Blood Angel army at the moment and what are you running in your list?

 

1) There has been some debate over what qualifies as a unusual power weapon (or Force weapon). Here are a few examples and I am wondering if they qualify. All have special rules, which by page 61 says they do not go look at the weapon to determine type.

 

Dante's Axe Mortalis

Glaive Encarmines

Astorath's Executioner's Axe

Relic Blades

Demon Weapons

Ahriman's Black Staff.

 

All of these weapons do count as Unusual power weapons and are AP3 in close combat, as they all have other rule other than being a power weapon.

 

2) Does Captain Tycho have an AP Value? Or does he just ignore all armor saves?

 

Brother Captain Tyco just Ignores all armour saves with the Dead Mans Hand, and rolls a extra D6 for armour penatration. How cool is that?

3) If I use a signum to make a shooter BS5, does that override the snapfire restriction for firing a moving heavy weapon or shooting a flyer?

 

Yes but it can only be used in the Shooting phase, not when being charged.

 

4) Can Artillery fire overwatch (assuming the artillery is not blast such as Ork Artillery)

 

Yes as long as the weapon is not a blast weapon.

 

Hope that this helps and if you have any other questions please contact us again.

 

I've bolded their responses.

[Drunken Angel]

Thanks for that James1Thats pretty much settled then. AP3 model Initiative and strength for the glaive/axe. I will take take The Sanguinor now and again he still upgrades a Sgt but his buff is now exposed to challenges. The Sanguinor is in the same boat as the Swarmlord and Draigo though with AP3 CC weapons. It could be worse imagine how it is for tyranids with the swarmlord? any 200 pt terminator armour/artificer armour unit will take him down easily, thats after he gets focused fire.

[Sabadin]

It could be worse imagine how it is for tyranids with the swarmlord? any 200 pt terminator armour/artificer armour unit will take him down easily, thats after he gets focused fire.

 

He's AP2, causes ID, and forces re-rolls on successful invulnerables. I don't think he's overly scared about CC.

[Drunken Angel]

Yep he is pretty safe now I read the rules. I see him as a points sink PA generals will just have to shoot him with their aeroplanes then. If anything this sets things up as they should be all MEQ HQ's are pretty much AP3 unless they have fist or hammers. AP2 assaults are pretty important

[toaae]

I do like that ruling. It's simple and consistent. If it says anything other than "...is a power weapons", it's unusual.

 

Almost seems weird to get such a logical ruling :D

[Deschenus Maximus]

Not the direction I expected them to take. I like it for Dante (losing his super high Init was sucky), but it would have been useful to have a few power axes in a unit of sang guard. Oh well, you can't win them all.

[Darklighter]

I tried to bring this rules debate up in my local GW store today only to get shot down by the manager as a moron for thinking anything other than Dante's axe was a power axe with master craft. They couldn't even see a different side to it and kept saying that two-handed and or master craft wasn't a unique enough quality to count as unusual!

[Pascalnz]

you need to get better rhetoric, the argmunent is very easy, but reall people can brow beat you down. before you go , if you try again , you need all the page references and FAq pages , and heck why not, BA codex pages available.

 

but really, it says all it needs to on page 61, with a quick reference to the special rules section:)

[Drunken Angel]

I tried to bring this rules debate up in my local GW store today only to get shot down by the manager as a moron for thinking anything other than Dante's axe was a power axe with master craft. They couldn't even see a different side to it and kept saying that two-handed and or master craft wasn't a unique enough quality to count as unusual!

 

Exactly my issue no you are damned either way on this at least you can take the references and FAQ pages into a shop ... but in a tournament you have no right of reply.

 

 

 

you need to get better rhetoric, the argmunent is very easy, but reall people can brow beat you down. before you go , if you try again , you need all the page references and FAq pages , and heck why not, BA codex pages available.

 

but really, it says all it needs to on page 61, with a quick reference to the special rules section:)

 

Hi Pascal, how did your games go at FOB I see you were up there for BA, we spoke briefly in Auckland around January at CG I was visiting there for a couple of weeks

[Pascalnz]

It was pretty good, came 5th overall, lost my first ever game with objectives primary in a tourney. I have 5 scoring models, it's pretty funny:)

 

also lost out on coming second due to not reading that in the last mission objectives could only be ontested with two non scoring units... sigh:(

 

Still, my first year doing tourney's and I've ticked off all my goals, including going to the masters[i'm 5th at the mo, that should do it I think:)]

 

It was a great tourney, didn't have a single rules conflict, everyone was lovely. Also the painting and sculpture work was awesome on a few armies, and the painting standard overall was excelent.

[Morticon]

I tried to bring this rules debate up in my local GW store today only to get shot down by the manager as a moron for thinking anything other than Dante's axe was a power axe with master craft. They couldn't even see a different side to it and kept saying that two-handed and or master craft wasn't a unique enough quality to count as unusual!

 

gamefaqs@gwplc.com

 

Tell him to ask them.

 

 

Pity about that buddy, cause your manager is being a banana.

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Glad im noit the only one whos local Manager is a spoon, as some people saw from before he was calling me an idiot because i was saying that marines could take power lances ;) I'm really happy to see that we have a clear answer on this subject now. Its a shame there are no axes for sang guard but at least they do have acess to fists so there is that ^_^

[Barduck]

it also open the way to take power axe on sergeants because there the codex upgrades only say: can take a power weapon for x points

[Darklighter]

I tried to bring this rules debate up in my local GW store today only to get shot down by the manager as a moron for thinking anything other than Dante's axe was a power axe with master craft. They couldn't even see a different side to it and kept saying that two-handed and or master craft wasn't a unique enough quality to count as unusual!

 

gamefaqs@gwplc.com

 

Tell him to ask them.

 

 

Pity about that buddy, cause your manager is being a banana.

 

The worst thing is now I don't feel I can use the units at all because of the behavior of the manager (he's also new to the store). I don't want to get used to playing them wrong and I'm not going to be able to play them with the actual rules! He's devised this idea of a house rules board for store games. So now whatever he says goes regardless of whether he's right or wrong.

[Morticon]

Ah, dude- dont sweat it- so long as everyone knows what the deal is and everyone is playing to the same rules its all good.

 

Wont make a huuuuge issue in the long run. My advice is to try and get to learn how to use Dantes axe to its best potential at the AP2 and then make him rue the day he houseruled it that way!

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Ah, dude- dont sweat it- so long as everyone knows what the deal is and everyone is playing to the same rules its all good.

 

Wont make a huuuuge issue in the long run. My advice is to try and get to learn how to use Dantes axe to its best potential at the AP2 and then make him rue the day he houseruled it that way!

 

 

That will be alot of fun. You know it will! :D

[Drunken Angel]

Ah, dude- dont sweat it- so long as everyone knows what the deal is and everyone is playing to the same rules its all good.

 

Wont make a huuuuge issue in the long run. My advice is to try and get to learn how to use Dantes axe to its best potential at the AP2 and then make him rue the day he houseruled it that way!

 

 

That will be alot of fun. You know it will! ;)

 

Given a choice I would field Dante at AP2 all the time but the best interpretation of the rules makes it AP3 even Draigos sword is AP3.

 

What Mort said, Dante will destroy stuff lots and lots of stuff, since this guy is such a pill take glaives as axes as well and use the Sanguinor at AP2. The Sanguinor and Dante with AP2 weapons is OP.... the shop rule nazi is going to change his mind soon enough. Remember the other rule "Have Fun !"

[Darklighter]

Thanks for the support guys. I'm going to work on a list this week to take advantage of his house rules, but it might be a few weeks before I get to use it.

[SevenExxes]

I didn't field my Sanguinary Strike Force this week but I think my LGS has now gone on to say that Glaive Encarmines and Dante's Axe Mortalis are unique power weapons (AP3 strike at I)

 

So, after having played 3 units with 3 weapons striking at I1 a few times, I have been thinking of fielding a Sanguinary Guard unit of all power-fists with a banner.

Dante on the charge makes 6 attacks, S5, AP3. If you charge the unit correctly he could wipe out some vital models of the unit who may be any kind of a threat.

Followed by 15 power fist attacks.

[JamesI]

I didn't field my Sanguinary Strike Force this week but I think my LGS has now gone on to say that Glaive Encarmines and Dante's Axe Mortalis are unique power weapons (AP3 strike at I)

 

So, after having played 3 units with 3 weapons striking at I1 a few times, I have been thinking of fielding a Sanguinary Guard unit of all power-fists with a banner.

Dante on the charge makes 6 attacks, S5, AP3. If you charge the unit correctly he could wipe out some vital models of the unit who may be any kind of a threat.

Followed by 15 power fist attacks.

expensive, but sounds fun too.

[Haunter!]

Glad this ruling has finally been made. My SG and Dante all have spears and I was starting to get worried about having to use them as having the lame power lances or not being able to use them at all.

 

It's a good thing to be able to keep my army's theme going.

[Leksington]

Glad this ruling has finally been made.

Where was an official ruling made?

 

I hope you are not referring to the email JamesI got? 99% of places are not going to accept a personal email that a random guy on the internet received as an official ruling. (no offense JamesI :o )

 

It is a good guideline to use, and probably an indication of what GW's official ruling will be. But it isn't an official ruling.

[Venemox]

Glad this ruling has finally been made. My SG and Dante all have spears and I was starting to get worried about having to use them as having the lame power lances or not being able to use them at all.

 

It's a good thing to be able to keep my army's theme going.

 

Hit and Run, man, Hit and Run. I was waiting to see something in writing going one way or the other. I'd love Dante and SG with banner, furious charge, and lances, charging on every one of my turns.

[JamesI]

Glad this ruling has finally been made. My SG and Dante all have spears and I was starting to get worried about having to use them as having the lame power lances or not being able to use them at all.

 

It's a good thing to be able to keep my army's theme going.

 

Hit and Run, man, Hit and Run. I was waiting to see something in writing going one way or the other. I'd love Dante and SG with banner, furious charge, and lances, charging on every one of my turns.

I'd go with Dante attached to DC with lances for that (or even Vanguard, but probably DC)

 

Glad this ruling has finally been made. My SG and Dante all have spears and I was starting to get worried about having to use them as having the lame power lances or not being able to use them at all.

 

It's a good thing to be able to keep my army's theme going.

As said by Leksington, do not consider the ruling email I got official until it ends up in a FAQ. Its official enough for me for now, but its not totally official yet.

[Brother Nathan]

check the faq, i think its been edited? i dont think i saw this in it before

 

Var – Power Swords

In the bestiary and army list, replace all references to “power

sword” with “power weapon”.

 

means i can give my termy sarge a maul or lance:)