The Black Lances

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Yes they are +2 STR on the charge with +2 Attacks with Fleet. So you drop these bad boyz in and shot them up with your boltgun. If that did not do the trick, you assault with reroll on the charge. You make it through there crummy overwatch tactic. Then you stab them right in the eye with your lance of doom (+2 Str/4ATK). With all the rerolls you need with Lemartes leading the charge, and of course Lemartes was out front (The only true leader of his squad) The ork nob hiding in the middle psh.... wussy...... We will smash face.

 

 

hahahahahaha i can see the look of terror in the enemies eyes already :)

[Zedrenael]

http://www.headinjurytheater.com/images/de...psy%20daisy.jpg

 

Use this laugh

[wabbitrage]

I'd hate to be the one to burst the bubble. Are power weapons worth paying for on death company? i'm not really convinced. Assuming you're using an assault vechile to gain the charge lets compare direct cost of DC effectiveness with and without power weapons.

 

 

4 Death Company pws - 140pts (for sake of arguement swords becuase it makes the maths simpler) - attacks on charge(+bolt pistol fire) 20(4)

 

7 Death Company ccw - 140pts - attacks on charge(+bolt pistol fire) 35(7)

 

Becuase they both hit and wound excatly the same the only differance is going to be the armour of your combatants.

 

Again rather than do the maths for excat numbers i'm going assume all attacks hit and wound to work out a ratio.

 

DC with Power weapons

6+ save 24

5+ save 24

4+ save 22

3+ save 21.7

2+ save 4

 

DC without power weapons

6+ save 36.1

5+ save 30.3

4+ save 21

3+ save 14

2+ save 7

 

Power weapon : CCW ratios

6+ save (2:3)

5+ save (5:6)

4+ save (22:21)

3+ save (3:2)

2+ save (4:7)

 

I just realised my maths is flawed becuase i accounted for pistol fire being as good as close combat. However its not becuase with a chappy you can reroll hits+wounds. Generally speaking its accurate though. This highlights pretty much that power weapons on a pt for pt basis are earning their points back against 3+ saves only. 4+ saves they just win against CCWs also that ratio would be higher if power lances were thrown into the mix. The obvious highlight is since terminators and 2+ saves look so damn sexy these days pts for pts basic DC should be insane terminator/hero killers.

 

Looking at this soley from an attacking point of view their is definatly a case for power weapons. However the advantages you gain from simply having more bodies on the battlefield could be argued stuff you can't put into maths easily without compreshensive tables. For example if the enemy strikes back and kills X amount of DC? in our very limited example if your guys were all carrying power weapons you would simple take a bigger loss.

 

For me i will be taking basic DC with 1 or 2 power fists.

[Zedrenael]

Well for the sake of argument make the argument the argument. So make it a Lance and then work out your ratio. I say that you are getting the same amount to hit, but with +2 STR on the charge you are definitly getting more wounds per round of combat.

 

I say

DC Lance DC CCWS

 

Toughness of Attacked Model Average wounds w/o rerolls

6 5:2~3

5 6:5

4 8:10~11

3 8:14~15

2 8:14~15

 

Against larger things like a Tervigon/Trygon the lances are giving you more bang for your buck cause they are ignoring armor saves and you still get your 5+FNP against these creatures but you are more likely to kill them than they are you.

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Its also worth pointing out that in regards to the unit i plan on taking will include dante in which will then give them the hit and run special rule, this, i think, will work extremely well with lances. Especially with a chaplain. I dont know the exact mathes but i think they work out at being similar or at least not a huge amount more than doing the same thing with honour guard and i think you get more benifits with their auto FnP and furious charge. I shall have to work out the actual number though :)

[wabbitrage]

Well for the sake of argument make the argument the argument. So make it a Lance and then work out your ratio. I say that you are getting the same amount to hit, but with +2 STR on the charge you are definitly getting more wounds per round of combat.

 

I say

DC Lance DC CCWS

 

Toughness of Attacked Model Average wounds w/o rerolls

6 5:2~3

5 6:5

4 8:10~11

3 8:14~15

2 8:14~15

 

Against larger things like a Tervigon/Trygon the lances are giving you more bang for your buck cause they are ignoring armor saves and you still get your 5+FNP against these creatures but you are more likely to kill them than they are you.

 

You're naming quite a specific example of high toughness unit with a 3+ save which power lances would certainly be a lot better against. but generally speaking against a tryanid army he is going to want to use his genestealers against your death company. Also the likelyhood of facing off against a high toughness 3+ save unit is slim most of the time. you're more likely going to be needing a cost effective counter against terminators. I also get the concept of annihilating a unit in 1 round of combat which is pretty sweet. Does spending nearly double the base cost of the model make it nearly twice as good? Imo, sometimes yes, against 3+ save its gonna rock. Most times they're gonna be agro-monkey-point-sinks (In my opinion).

[Hadron Ka'sel]

Well for the sake of argument make the argument the argument. So make it a Lance and then work out your ratio. I say that you are getting the same amount to hit, but with +2 STR on the charge you are definitly getting more wounds per round of combat.

 

I say

DC Lance DC CCWS

 

Toughness of Attacked Model Average wounds w/o rerolls

6 5:2~3

5 6:5

4 8:10~11

3 8:14~15

2 8:14~15

 

Against larger things like a Tervigon/Trygon the lances are giving you more bang for your buck cause they are ignoring armor saves and you still get your 5+FNP against these creatures but you are more likely to kill them than they are you.

 

You're naming quite a specific example of high toughness unit with a 3+ save which power lances would certainly be a lot better against. but generally speaking against a tryanid army he is going to want to use his genestealers against your death company. Also the likelyhood of facing off against a high toughness 3+ save unit is slim most of the time. you're more likely going to be needing a cost effective counter against terminators. I also get the concept of annihilating a unit in 1 round of combat which is pretty sweet. Does spending nearly double the base cost of the model make it nearly twice as good? Imo, sometimes yes, against 3+ save its gonna rock. Most times they're gonna be agro-monkey-point-sinks (In my opinion).

 

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if the new ally rules didnt exist. It's pretty much a dead cert that we are going to see more power armour and 3+ saves from people playing Xenos and Guard for example. Also with the way bikers are now working we are most certainly going to be seeing more of them with their toughness 5. I for one think you might be underestimating the benefit of lances on dc. But as with your arguement, this is mostly just my own opinion ;)

[wabbitrage]

Apart from a vidicator what would you see as the best way to counter terminators or 2+ saves in general? LasPlas razorbacks certainly have the firepower but they go down easily even to heavy bolter fire. The club i play at everyone seems to be dusting off their tactical terminators becuase they're so good now. As a blood angels player i hope it doesn't get to the stage where i have to take dev squads with plasma cannons.