eyeslikethunder Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 1)Does a character with Saga of the hunter pass on His outflank rule to the units he is attatched?QUOTE (brb p40) any unit that contains at least one model with this special rule to 1)Does a character with Saga of the hunter pass on His outflank rule to the units he is attatched? QUOTE (brb p40). Does saga of the hunter have the outflank USR any unit that contains at least one model with this special rule Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Haha, I can see you posting on Dakka eyes, but can't respond due to bannage until next month. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Just because I absolutely despise the practice, Are TWM equipped independent characters or TWC meant to be joined by non-TWM independent characters or non-TWC units, with the exception of Fenrisian wolves as detailed in the codex? Frankly I want the practice of backdooring this rule killed, decapitated, and placed up on a pike in front of GW headquarters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Haha, I can see you posting on Dakka eyes, but can't respond due to bannage until next month. Must say just posting because so the rules get some light(raise its profile) and less arguements around tables I dont doubt what the rule is. sneaky maybe :P You could point your necron friend at the answers if would help. The neutral board is better than a SW B&C one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Does Saga of the Hunter confer the Outflank USR? Sort of question 1 do you want me extend queston 1 or leave it as it s Well the main point of contention in a debate at YMDC is that the ability to outflank in the Saga of the Hunter applied in 5th edition when outflank was just a special move. Now that Outflank is a defined USR, Saga of the Hunter does nothing but allow the Stealth USR. So it needs to be clarified that Saga of the Hunter does indeed confer the Outflank USR do allow an IC with Saga of the Hunter to utilize the special rule. Actually, no. "Saga of the Hunter The character has the ability to outflank and the Stealth rule.", C:SW, Pg.64 "When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge. Models that are arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules (see pages 36 and 40).",BRB, Pg.124 So a model with Saga of the Hunter has the ability to outflank. The Reserves special rules on page 124 tell you that models arriving by Outflank use the Outflank USR special rules found on page 40. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Does Saga of the Hunter confer the Outflank USR? Sort of question 1 do you want me extend queston 1 or leave it as it s Well the main point of contention in a debate at YMDC is that the ability to outflank in the Saga of the Hunter applied in 5th edition when outflank was just a special move. Now that Outflank is a defined USR, Saga of the Hunter does nothing but allow the Stealth USR. So it needs to be clarified that Saga of the Hunter does indeed confer the Outflank USR do allow an IC with Saga of the Hunter to utilize the special rule. Actually, no. "Saga of the Hunter The character has the ability to outflank and the Stealth rule.", C:SW, Pg.64 "When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move fully onto the table from the controlling player's own table edge. Models that are arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules (see pages 36 and 40).",BRB, Pg.124 So a model with Saga of the Hunter has the ability to outflank. The Reserves special rules on page 124 tell you that models arriving by Outflank use the Outflank USR special rules found on page 40. The ability to outflank does nothing in 6th edition. Your rules quote above and your interpretation do not match; "...Models arriving by Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using THEIR special rules (see pages 36 and 40)." does not mean, "The Reserves special rules on page 124 tell you that models arriving by Outflank use THE Outflank USR special rules found on page 40." It is a small distinction but one that is 100% supported by the rules; BRB pg 32; WHAT SPECIAL RULES DO I HAVE? It may seem obvious, but unless stated otherwise, a model does not have a special rule. BRB pg 40 OUTFLANK During deployment, players can declare that any unit that contains at least one model with this special rule is attempting to Outflank the enemy. An IC with Saga of the Hunter does not have the Outflank USR. An IC with Saga of the Hunter, considered a unit by himself, does not contain at least one model with the special rule (Outflank USR). So when your page 124 rule references, THEIR rules, they are specifically calling upon the conditions set by "WHAT SPECIAL RULES DO I HAVE?" and by the fact that the unit does not contain at least one model with that special rule. Hence, Saga of the Hunter is currently broken. I will play it that having the ability to outflank gives you the Outflank USR, but that is not supported by the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Yet another RAW and RAI mismatch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Does a Lone Wolf give up a VP from First Blood if it is the first unit to be killed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Yet another RAW and RAI mismatch. I consider it more of an oversight between old rules and new rules. The ability to outflank worked just fine when outflank was not a USR and just a special move. Now that 6th edition has made it a USR and the application of USR are pretty strict, the ability to outflank just doesn't cut it anymore. I expect a FAQ giving Saga of the Hunter the Outflank USR just like it has the Stealth USR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Yet another RAW and RAI mismatch. I consider it more of an oversight between old rules and new rules. The ability to outflank worked just fine when outflank was not a USR and just a special move. Now that 6th edition has made it a USR and the application of USR are pretty strict, the ability to outflank just doesn't cut it anymore. I expect a FAQ giving Saga of the Hunter the Outflank USR just like it has the Stealth USR. So your position really is "the ability to outflank" is not "has the Outflank USR"? :teehee: @eyeslikethunder : "In close combat, a model with a wolftooth necklace always hits on the roll of a 3+ regardless of comparative Weapon Skills.", C:SW, Pg.62 Does this even apply against Immobile vehicles, reducing the character from auto-hitting Immobile vehicles to hitting on a 3+? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Yet another RAW and RAI mismatch. I consider it more of an oversight between old rules and new rules. The ability to outflank worked just fine when outflank was not a USR and just a special move. Now that 6th edition has made it a USR and the application of USR are pretty strict, the ability to outflank just doesn't cut it anymore. I expect a FAQ giving Saga of the Hunter the Outflank USR just like it has the Stealth USR. So your position really is "the ability to outflank" is not "has the Outflank USR"? :) @eyeslikethunder : "In close combat, a model with a wolftooth necklace always hits on the roll of a 3+ regardless of comparative Weapon Skills.", C:SW, Pg.62 Does this even apply against Immobile vehicles, reducing the character from auto-hitting Immobile vehicles to hitting on a 3+? No, my personal position is that "the ability to outflank" confers the "Outflank USR", but I have absolutely zero rules support to prove that claim. I would play it my way, but if challenged on it by a player or TO, I would have to admit that RAW, Saga of the Hunter is broken until a FAQ verifies that "the ability to outflank" confers the "Outflank USR". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Khan rules also refers to the the "outflank ability" rather than the USR So it appears that is be how GW viewed it in 5th as an ability rather than a Rule rather than some specially worded preparation for 6th ed remember Outflank was not a USR in 5th but stealth was Outflank was ability granted by the infiltrate and scout USR's Infiltrate also confers a special outflank move That is why the 5th ed SW codex refers to them differently Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 @eyeslikethunder :"In close combat, a model with a wolftooth necklace always hits on the roll of a 3+ regardless of comparative Weapon Skills.", C:SW, Pg.62 Does this even apply against Immobile vehicles, reducing the character from auto-hitting Immobile vehicles to hitting on a 3+? added Are TWM equipped independent characters or TWC meant to be joined by non-TWM independent characters or non-TWC units, with the exception of Fenrisian wolves as detailed in the codex? added Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiba Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 @eyeslikethunder :"In close combat, a model with a wolftooth necklace always hits on the roll of a 3+ regardless of comparative Weapon Skills.", C:SW, Pg.62 Does this even apply against Immobile vehicles, reducing the character from auto-hitting Immobile vehicles to hitting on a 3+? Page 1 of the SW FAQ solves this: Page 62 - Wolftooth Necklace. Replace the last sentence with: "Against models with a WS value a model with a wolftooth necklace always hits in close combat on the roll of a 3+." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkseer Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 STOP PRESS! New FAQs are coming around the time of release of the new stater set. There was meant to be a massive FAQ update when 6th came out, but they only faq'd the psychic powers. Instead, the big FAQ roll out is coming in a couple of months. You will have all your questions answered then. GW is planning to maintain balance with regular FAQ updates and alterations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 @eyeslikethunder :"In close combat, a model with a wolftooth necklace always hits on the roll of a 3+ regardless of comparative Weapon Skills.", C:SW, Pg.62 Does this even apply against Immobile vehicles, reducing the character from auto-hitting Immobile vehicles to hitting on a 3+? Page 1 of the SW FAQ solves this: Page 62 - Wolftooth Necklace. Replace the last sentence with: "Against models with a WS value a model with a wolftooth necklace always hits in close combat on the roll of a 3+." No it does not, because vehicles which have moved are treated as having a WS of 1, while immobile vehicles are treated as having a WS of 0. Normally a model with a WS of 0 will be auto-hit, but as it is treated as having a WS the WTK is now worded as to force a hit on a 3+ regardless of its WS 0. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 STOP PRESS!New FAQs are coming around the time of release of the new stater set. There was meant to be a massive FAQ update when 6th came out, but they only faq'd the psychic powers. Instead, the big FAQ roll out is coming in a couple of months. You will have all your questions answered then. GW is planning to maintain balance with regular FAQ updates and alterations. Yeah I have noticed I am now(I wasnt before) getting replies to my FAQ emails saying they have been read and will be added to the FAQ's It will be interesting to see how far they go with maintaining balance with their alterations. The new codex entries on WD, electronic codex updates suggest GW is willing to further than before to maintain balance but will it stop using powercreep to sell stuff....... Flyers...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkseer Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I'm still collating the facts, but expect 2 very informative blog posts on the Space Wolves blog very soon! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Faeit212 Saying something similar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkseer Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Yeah, he's not far off. I have a little more info due to my contact, but all will be explained in a blog post very soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 who gets VP for a lone wolf if you killed him with a nugle aura allyed to your army ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3133756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal105 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 who gets VP for a lone wolf if you killed him with a nugle aura allyed to your army ? if the lone wolf is killed he confers on kill points but if he lives through the battle he gives the opponent a point. if i rember correctely Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3134010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 If he dies then NEITHER side get a kill point whereas if he lives then your opponent gets a kill point - I believe that Kill Points now eqaute to VPs but only in the 1 'kill-point' mission Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3134736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 who gets VP for a lone wolf if you killed him with a nugle aura allyed to your army ? What does the nurgle aura do? Yeah, he's not far off.I have a little more info due to my contact, but all will be explained in a blog post very soon. When should we expect it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3134988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Wanted to give OP kudos for putting this together and ignoring the critics. Seems like a few of the official FAQs were even pulled from our submission Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255539-6th-ed-sw-faq-new-questions/page/5/#findComment-3171037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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