Kevin48220 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I started getting into 40K earlier this year, and delayed starting to play until 6th edition came out. This wasn't a bad choice, as it let me dig deeply into the fluff and background, and do a lot of painting and modeling. So, I have a pretty decent-looking Codex SM army and enough skill to start on a small allied force of all-plastic SOB conversions. Awesome! But, looking at the new flyer rules, I'm wondering if having some AA ability isn't essentially a requirement now. I don't mean officially, I mean in terms of how the game is being played and how often people are seeing the new flying units. My thought is that the Aegis Defense Line is costed quite low--50 points for a basic version--so as to let everyone get a bit of AA for any force. I'm certainly thinking about adding one to the armory. I'd also thought about the Imperial Bastion, and just making a fortification part of the standard kit for any army list I go with. Just curious as to what everyone else thinks, or may be planning to do in regard to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hi there, I've owned a 2 bastion + aegis line for like 3 years...and have just broken the sprues :) At 100ish points (aegis line + weapon) its a bit pricy, but not many alternatives we have! Some psychic powers allow to affect any enemy unit, so you might want to have a look at that... Also, I wouldn't buy the GW stuff. Sure its nice...but its really easy to do with some foamboard :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 The Aegis defense lines, as long as we don't get Flakk missiles, are probably going to pop up everywhere. Also, during one of my playtest games, we both took bastions, and those things are incredible. They don't have hull points, so glances are essentially worthless, they're loaded down with weapons, they can buy Skyfire weapons, they're AV 14, meaning close range fire is what's normally going to kill them(Or Arjac's hammer. Heheheheh), and you can just dump a unit of Long Fangs or what have you inside and be joyful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 No AA in C:SM apart from the Stormtalon which I don't want to take just yet because it'll ruin my carefully crafted FA selections. So therefore I can see the Fortifications becoming a major part of my army. In particular the Aegis Defence Line. Cheap (100pts for the firepower of a Rifleman Dread but has AA and can better cover your units, sure!) and it should be effective. It'll also be easier to transport than a Bastion, and I don't think it'll be as OP. I'll stick my Tactical squad behind it with a lascannon, one boltgun Marine can operate the quad-gun, sorted. But that's something for the future, for now I'm hoping my Rifleman Dreads can do OK against fliers thanks to twin-linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 From what I've been seeing, TL is relatively useful on the Dreads. I was playing a game against some, and they did a fair amount of damage to my Stormraven. Killed them in the end, but lost a good amount of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 one boltgun Marine can operate the quad-gun, sorted. Quad guns have to be manned? Thought they were independent systems...go wonder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Personally I think a bastion would be better than Aegis for just 25 more pts. Of course the enemy can destroy it but your A/A activitues will benefit from its height. You have to deploy your fortification before any other terrain. Since both players place terrains on the table You opponent can place them in order to interfere with your Quad Cannon Line of sight. A Bastion is higher than most scenary and can have a good visual of enemy flyers. Just my opinion, though :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin48220 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 Yeah, kinda confirms my thoughts--that at the least, an Aegis will be a good thing to have in general. Sure its nice...but its really easy to do with some foamboard :lol: Oh yeah, it's pretty, but wildly expensive. I've got a couple of pieces of foamboard that are already earmarked for building a defense line and a bastion. I'm picking up a kit with a lot of good conversion bits for doing the guns and improvising my Thunderfire cannons. My only concern is whether or not folks will let me use my homemade gear at tournaments and other events, and getting the dimensions right. Not too hard with the Aegis--it's 28" of wall in 8 pieces (4 short and 4 long). Figure 4 pieces that are 5" long and 4 that are 2" long. Make them about 1-1/2" high and put them on a piece of thin plastic so they stand up. But, what are the dimensions on the bastion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 What do you think about Fortress of Redemption, Battle Brothers? Is it worth its "land raider-like cost"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 one boltgun Marine can operate the quad-gun, sorted. Quad guns have to be manned? Thought they were independent systems...go wonder! They're gun emplacements as per page 105, so yes, they need to be manned. Cmdr Shepard, with the Bastion you are most probably right. However, that thing will be a pain to take to the battletop, so I'll stick with the flatter (and cheaper) Aegis Lines for now if I got anything. re. Fortress, read above. :cuss To be honest, I don't think it's worth it. You'll definitely want the krakstorm missiles, which makes it the same price as a Land Raider. In small points games though you won't have enough men to fill in it an warrant its inclusion. In bigger games of course then it may be more useful. At the moment though, just take a Bastion. You get the all important AA gun, and you can still stick two units in it (one actually in it and one on the battlements). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 one boltgun Marine can operate the quad-gun, sorted. Quad guns have to be manned? Thought they were independent systems...go wonder! They're gun emplacements as per page 105, so yes, they need to be manned. Cmdr Shepard, with the Bastion you are most probably right. However, that thing will be a pain to take to the battletop, so I'll stick with the flatter (and cheaper) Aegis Lines for now if I got anything. re. Fortress, read above. :cuss To be honest, I don't think it's worth it. You'll definitely want the krakstorm missiles, which makes it the same price as a Land Raider. In small points games though you won't have enough men to fill in it an warrant its inclusion. In bigger games of course then it may be more useful. At the moment though, just take a Bastion. You get the all important AA gun, and you can still stick two units in it (one actually in it and one on the battlements). Even on 2000 pts games I think controlling the Fortress' weaponery will keep a good number of model away from objectives or frontline. Beside its only A/A weapon is a single shot one, even thoug a twin-linked, S9 96" range one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povar Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 No AA in C:SM apart from the Stormtalon which I don't want to take just yet because it'll ruin my carefully crafted FA selections. There are flakk AA rockets in every shoulder missile launcher, just so you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 That's currently under debate, and though I believe they do have flakk, I wouldn't rely on that until we get an official FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin48220 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 I don't recall seeing anything about that in the FAQ that was posted simultaneous with release. Of course, that doesn't mean we won't get further updates and errata as things move forward. Well, at least not the one for Codex Space Marines, and I'll say also that I haven't totally devoured the new rulebook yet (so I may have missed a reference to that somewhere). GW may be waiting to see how things play out--i.e., whether or not everyone gets on the "gotta have the Aegis Line" train, or looks for alternative ways to deal with pesky flyers. If they don't see a spike in sales on the fortifications listed in the book (which are all very conveniently for sale), they may errata individual units to let them use AA fire. That's likely wishful thinking on my part--they'll likely let it stand just to make everyone get an Aegis (at the least). Of course, one can also see them doing fortifications for the different codex races and factions as they are released--maybe not immediately all with kits, but at least with pics and stat lines so people can make their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 No AA in C:SM apart from the Stormtalon which I don't want to take just yet because it'll ruin my carefully crafted FA selections. There are flakk AA rockets in every shoulder missile launcher, just so you know. As CMID said, it's under debate, see this thread here. It's quite lengthy, which just tells you how under debate it is at the moment. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Cmdr Shepard, with the Bastion you are most probably right. However, that thing will be a pain to take to the battletop, so I'll stick with the flatter (and cheaper) Aegis Lines for now if I got anything. ......Hmmm, thinks about mass marketing inflatable scenery.......... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin48220 Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out. As a side note, I started a homemade Aegis line, which I posted about here if anyone is interested: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...255704&st=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 In my first game I replaced my Long Fang's TL-LC Razorback with an Imperial Bastion and scrounged up an extra 20 points for the comm relay... it was fantastic. Long Fangs dominated until a melta shot blew up the bastion and caused a detonation which almost wiped out the long fangs pack (my rune priest and a single missile launcher survived) as well as killing eight more infantry surrounding the building. Devastating explosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Some of these terrain pieces are going to be very common. However, I don't think they are a must have for AA. I believe that the Signum in a Devastator squad will allow you to shoot at fliers at BS5. 2 reasons. 1. Advanced rules > Basic Rules 2. Multiple Modifier Rules. During your shooting phase, apply the BS 1 penalty, then apply the BS 5 from Signum. The fliers are all AV 10 - 12. If you can Signum a Lascannon you will take care of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The signum is a set modifier, so is snap shot. So if we go by the GW FAQs statements about when two set modifiers conflict youd dice it off each time you went to use the signum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 We also have a thread here about the signum and snap fire, we don't need to start a debate here about it. Also remember that Fortifications aren't just about AA. They can also provide valuable protection for your infantry units, bolstering a position in your DZ against enemy support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm a little torn between the Aegis Defence Line and a Bastion, but the biggest question I have is whether to take Lascannon or Quad Gun? What does everyone think regarding this matter? AV11 then yes, the Quadd guns speaks to me most, but higher than that what do people think? The Quad gun is so accurate and throwing 3+ at Penetration rolls will give a decent chance of getting a penetrate or a couple of glances to destroy pesky Fliers. I'm leaning towards the Quad gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm a little torn between the Aegis Defence Line and a Bastion, but the biggest question I have is whether to take Lascannon or Quad Gun? What does everyone think regarding this matter? AV11 then yes, the Quadd guns speaks to me most, but higher than that what do people think? The Quad gun is so accurate and throwing 3+ at Penetration rolls will give a decent chance of getting a penetrate or a couple of glances to destroy pesky Fliers. I'm leaning towards the Quad gun. Unless you're sure you're going to have someone available to man the gun for most of the game I would skip both. Personally I think the fortifications work best as a replacement for a Razorback for a Devastator squad / Long Fangs pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I'm a little torn between the Aegis Defence Line and a Bastion, but the biggest question I have is whether to take Lascannon or Quad Gun? What does everyone think regarding this matter? AV11 then yes, the Quadd guns speaks to me most, but higher than that what do people think? The Quad gun is so accurate and throwing 3+ at Penetration rolls will give a decent chance of getting a penetrate or a couple of glances to destroy pesky Fliers. I'm leaning towards the Quad gun. Remember that there really is no difference between vehicle explodes and vehicle wrecked with flyers, so you're looking to just glance them to death most of time, something the quad gun should do very well with its 4 TL shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I have to applaud GW with there marketing technique on making terrain sales go up by making them an actually part of the game. I will be field a Aegis Defense Line in most up and coming battle for the sheer fact of I get a 4+ cover save anyway I want to put it. I am also taking the Fortress of Redemption in an upcoming game to test it out, but I like the idea of 4 Land Raiders rolled into one. I mean if the enemy gets inside it will be a nasty version of Aliens movie from my guys getting slaughtered in a dank building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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