BrotherWasted Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 If I recall, the 6th Ed rulebook states that models without a CCW listed in their entry are assumed to have a generic one. Would this then mean, that Codex Tactical Squads are armed with a default close combat weapon AND a Bolt Pistol, granting them +1A in close combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I guess their bolt pistol is treated as their close combat weapon, so they don't have the "free" one. Edit: That rule is basically so that new players aren't confused. "My shoota boys do not have a close combat weapon. Does that mean they cannot attack in close combat at all?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Right after that sentence about a unit having no specified melee weapon it goes on to say that pistols count as a melee weapon as per the profile above. So Tactical Marines sadly don't get another melee weapon as they have one already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Best to read first, as there is already a thread on this ^_^. Short answer, no bonus ccw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Not in the Index Astartes forum, nor the first three pages of this forum there wasn't, unless I missed it. RAW, the book says if a model doesn't SPECIFICALLY have a Melee-type weapon it's wargear it's assumed to have one. It says below this rule that Pistols CAN be used as one. Not must, CAN. As I read it, they should get +1A because they don't SPECIFICALLY have a Melee-type weapon in their profile. Lack of a proper CCW is part of why I threw away my Marines in 5th. If this isn't meant to fix it, that's rather stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Is this a serious thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 What is the fascination with trying to game the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 What is the fascination with trying to game the rules? I guess. OP, stop trying to game the rules. <3 It's more sportsman like to not look for loopholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Just missed it; page 2, 4th topic ;) "No Specified Close Combat Weapon" "A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above- the Strength, AP and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored (see pg. 52)." And that profile is the same as the one for no specified melee weapon- and guess what? It includes the Melee word ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Aannnnnnd it's out of the park. High five, Seahawk. <3 NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Just missed it; page 2, 4th topic ;) "No Specified Close Combat Weapon" "A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above- the Strength, AP and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored (see pg. 52)." And that profile is the same as the one for no specified melee weapon- and guess what? It includes the Melee word :P Yes, I saw that. Use of the pistol in close combat is optional, however, as indicated by the very wording of this rule. A Tactical Marine does not explicitly have a close combat weapon listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 They explicitly have a Melee type weapon once the assault phase comes around, wether you want to use it or not is up to you but its certainly there. No bonus CCW. If thats an extreme issue then SWs and Chaos are always options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splitwrist Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 What is the fascination with trying to game the rules? I always open these threads thinking "Oh, somebody who just wants to clarify the rules. Good thing somebody here already answered them..." then you keep scrolling and find the OP has already deceided how the rule should work and is just trying to get someone to agree so they have a foot to stand on when they try to bring it up in their next game... Makes me nervous when I generally have a question LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Just missed it; page 2, 4th topic :lol: "No Specified Close Combat Weapon" "A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above- the Strength, AP and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored (see pg. 52)." And that profile is the same as the one for no specified melee weapon- and guess what? It includes the Melee word ;) Yes, I saw that. Use of the pistol in close combat is optional, however, as indicated by the very wording of this rule. A Tactical Marine does not explicitly have a close combat weapon listed. It represents the Marine either using his Bolter as a club or pistol-whipping his adversary. By your logic, should an Imperial Guardsman also have +1 attack in Close Combat? In previous editions Marines only had a Bolter listed on their profile and the BRB told the reader to assume that all models would have a Combat Knife of some sort. Now it specifies that they have a Bolter (ranged assault) and Bolt Pistol (point-blank range, i.e melee). A Bolter requires two hands to fire just like any normal rifle would and a Marine would certainly not be able to use the Pistol and then use the Bolter like a Chainsword/Combat Sword, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayCatt Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 No ... But he could wield it one handed as a club while sqeezing off point blank rounds with the pistol ... Though the profile used by pistol wielding models in CC implicitly imply they are being used as clubs rather than fired ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 A Bolter requires two hands to fire just like any normal rifle would I would add the caveats 'accurately' and 'at anything beyond very close range' - you can't fire a rifle one handed because there's generally a stock in the way and because its too front-heavy to wield as a pistol, given the boltguns lack of a stock and the bracing effect of the power armour I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to wield it one-handed in close quarters as shown periodically in the art: old skool as well as being represented by the 3rd/4th edition True Grit rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik84 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 A Bolter requires two hands to fire just like any normal rifle would I would add the caveats 'accurately' and 'at anything beyond very close range' - you can't fire a rifle one handed because there's generally a stock in the way and because its too front-heavy to wield as a pistol, given the boltguns lack of a stock and the bracing effect of the power armour I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to wield it one-handed in close quarters as shown periodically in the art: old skool as well as being represented by the 3rd/4th edition True Grit rule. thats true, but a marine is a weapon... plus he has to power armoured fists, if only marines followed the fluff lol *runs off to red the ultramarines novals again, with elbows smash skulls and forward rolls into small men, resulting in them dieing... Ventris.. is who Sicarius wishes he could be* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Nice stories, but they have nothing to do with rules .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Boltgun + Bolt Pistol + additional CCW is the province of Space Wolves and Chaos SM. To cheese anybody else into that category is folly and unnecessary (we have our own tricks to compensate). The explanaition why we don't get em is above and rather simple. We have bigger nuances to figure out than this. Play the game more and re-reread the new rules to help. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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