6th Ed Wound Allocation

[Schultzhoffen]

Is it possible that things got EVEN more annoying in 6th? i.e Ork Biker Nobs and Paladins, in particular. I've seen a few different opinions so what is the consensus? Is 6th Wound Allocation simpler/easier or way more frustrating/annoying if you're up against Paladins and their ilk?

[thade]

Previously you needed to put one wound on every single model in a Paladin or Non unit before one died. Now wounds are allocated on range. They have a 4+ chance of tossing a wound away now and again, but they are in fact far less durable than before.

 

This seems like more of a Tactics question...or a complaint.

[Jacinda]

It got much easier. Especially with Paladins and Nobz. Instead of wound allocation shell game, you keep putting wounds on the first model until it's dead, then go to the next. Since the whole Paladin unit share the same save, just roll all the dice at once and pull off models from the front. Fast and easy; just how I like my ... um ... games.

[breng77]

It is not as large of a difference as you might believe, really the biggest change is that you cannot just auto allow draigo to eat all the s8 + Otherwise in many cases they will be nearly as durable.

[thade]

Keep in mind that Paladins (and Nobs, and Tervigons I think) are Characters and so are entitled to 4+ Look Out, Sir! rolls to pass wounds off on each other (in the same unit, within 6"). This is a far cry from the invincible Paladin conga lines, playing hot-potato with wounds and saves. It is better. <3 And faster.

 

ADDENDUM: I kind of expect virtually every Look Out, Sir! roll on Paladins to get thrown at Draigo's nigh invincible face.

[Morollan]

Keep in mind that Paladins (and Nobs, and Tervigons I think) are Characters and so are entitled to 4+ Look Out, Sir! rolls to pass wounds off on each other (in the same unit, within 6"). This is a far cry from the invincible Paladin conga lines, playing hot-potato with wounds and saves. It is better. <3 And faster.

 

ADDENDUM: I kind of expect virtually every Look Out, Sir! roll on Paladins to get thrown at Draigo's nigh invincible face.

 

I don't have the rulebook yet. Can LOS wounds be passed to anyone within 6" or only the nearest? If it's anyone then Paladins are even more survivable now than before! Roll 2+/5++ saves on the closest model until he takes one wound then the next time he takes a wound LOS it to someone else and carry on rolling on the first guy until he takes another wound which get's LOS'd to yet another guy and so on, and so on.

[thade]

I don't have the rulebook yet. Can LOS wounds be passed to anyone within 6" or only the nearest?

Any member of their unit within 6". So, nobody that's not in their unit and nobody in their unit that's more than 6" away.

 

So the whole "Paladin 10-man conga line for multiple objectives" fandango is much less doable now.

[Morollan]

I don't have the rulebook yet. Can LOS wounds be passed to anyone within 6" or only the nearest?

Any member of their unit within 6". So, nobody that's not in their unit and nobody in their unit that's more than 6" away.

 

So the whole "Paladin 10-man conga line for multiple objectives" fandango is much less doable now.

 

Unless the objectives were ridiculously close together I was never worried by that anyway. Assault one end of the line and the other end got pulled off the objective by the defender reacts move.

 

I am however concerned, to say the least, about the potential abuses that Draigo and his merry men can pull now with all this wound allocation and LOS crap. Whose insane idea was it to make the entire bloody unit characters? Not only is Draigo practically immortal now (4 wounds, EW, 2+/3++ save, possible 5+ FNP and a 2+ LOS redirect!!) but by placing him at the front of the unit, the rest of the unit is effectively invulnerable! ;)

[ShinyRhino]

Is LoS rolled before the save, or after?

Also, I'm almost positive that there's a line in the rulebook in the Objectives section that states you can only claim/deny one objective per unit. The Grot or Paladin Conga Line is dead, Jim.

[breng77]

It is before the save, so essentially you would roll it every time just to be able to move around as many wounds as possible.

[Schertenleib]

If I'm remembering this right...

 

LoS for shooting says any wound or unsaved wound. Where the LoS for Close Combat just says any wound.

[Morticon]

ADDENDUM: I kind of expect virtually every Look Out, Sir! roll on Paladins to get thrown at Draigo's nigh invincible face.

 

Clarification here, why would that matter, since if the LoS is passed or failed a wound is still done. Let them throw it at Draigo, just means he loses a wound if they make the save. He doesnt get to save it again.

[Tanhausen]

Also...it may only be for CC but... Look out sir is only once per turn or phase (unsure).

 

And I think people tend to fall into the game the paladins are best: shoot them? Huh?

 

Jaws and similar powers! I'd even say there is a new power that you check an attribute (not sure if T or Ini) or else remove the model.

 

Broad picture people, broad picture...

[Jacinda]

If I'm remembering this right...

 

LoS for shooting says any wound or unsaved wound. Where the LoS for Close Combat just says any wound.

"When a Wound (or unsaved Wound) is allocated ..."

 

So it happens when the wound is allocated.

[ShinyRhino]

Ugh. That is a stinky situation there, then. The onyl savng grace is that if the Character fails that save, the LoS'ing model doesn't resave against it. It's like insurance against flubbing your invulnerable saves.

[Schultzhoffen]

I'm not complaining - I have a genuine query/concern.

 

As I'm reading the rules, the nearest model MUST fail a save before moving down the line.

 

This means (in the case of the Paladins, for example), the nearest model MUST take 2 wounds (after FNP/Look Out Sir!) before the wounds move further.

 

So...I rapid fire with x4 CPlasma Guns (Sternguard) at x5 Paladins. In 4th I may have inflicted 5-6 wounds (perhaps killed one Paladin). In 6th I have to keep trying to kill the first guy before spreading wounds around. Is this right? If this is so, I may inflict NO wounds to anyone (due to Invul saves and FNP).

 

As I said -I'm not complaining - I need clarification.

[asianavatar]

Normally, in the case of other units, you could cause 5 wounds and if everyone had the same armour save you could just roll 5 saves and take off the number that died. Because paladins are characters though, every save has to be rolled individually because they can LOS and pass wounds around. So yes, if the guy in front has some crazy invulnerable save along with FNP. He may just eat all the wounds while the rest of the squad points and laughs at you.

[doomie]

It's not all that bad, if they are all using the same save,

just fast roll it and apply the wounds to the closest model.

If your shooting at mixed saves it can be tricky,

but you can fast roll it in batches.

 

It makes positioning key. I flanked around a mob of boys lead by a warboss

with a dreadnought, the AC wiffed, but the flamer put in some work,

cooking 4 boys, a warboss, and a nob(PK, BP).

Three boys and the nob were in front of the boss, but they didn't get a save,

the warboss failed his three invul. saves,

and a fourth boy died behind him.

[bob sprocket]

Draigo does make a paladin unit nigh on invulernable.

 

As does Fortuned Eldrad in a unit of Harlequins. Everyone has an invul (3+ or 5+), and the unit gets a 4+ cover in the open, and a 2+ cover in ANY cover. And everything is re-rollable. Stick Eldrad at the front and nothing dies. (I inflicted 24 wounds [not hits] on one of these units and killed a single harlequin)

[facmanpob]

It makes positioning key. I flanked around a mob of boys ........

 

This....here....this is the key!

 

I keep reading all over the forums about how this unit or that unit is invulnerable if you stick this dude in front to soak up the wounds.....and I keep waving my arms around and shouting at the screen....."use mobility!!!!! This isn't a static line-up-and-shoot game. The invincible dude can't be everywhere at once! Go round the side!"

 

People at work are looking at me strange! ;)

[DarkGuard]

You know, this is strangely beginning to sound like tactics.....

 

You know what we do to tactics over here don't you? :P

[facmanpob]

You know what we do to tactics over here don't you? :)

Tactics is a dirty word! :)

[doomie]

Sorry, about the tactics, it was more of a side note.

It was really an example of how mixed saves work.

[ImperialFist_36]

Not sure I like the new wound allocation rules myself.

 

GW have made a big deal about making the game move cinematic. I the case of direct fire weapons such as bolters, flamers, even missile launchers then closest model makes sense cinematically.

 

BUT

 

What about ordannce weapons. A Basilisk for example. The shell falls from a higher arc and wouldn't necessarily hit the first model in a unit. Large area blast, yet with these new rules could end up with just the one model, closest who just happens to have high invun save taking all the wound rolls. Sorry but that sure ain't cinematic.

 

Think GW have missed a trick there. Think the new wound allocation is wide open for cheese... 'my character with 3+ invun save is closest so all saves from that large blast basalisk shell gets rolled against him'.

 

You going to get Space Marine characters leading Imperial Guard Allies, conveniently placed as the closest model...

 

Yeah, not sure its an improvement... jury still out for me.

[Seahawk]

The shell falls from a higher arc and wouldn't necessarily hit the first model in a unit.

You're confusing certain things. For one, Barrage weapons hit the models under the template first, then it spreads out from there (p.34). Direct fire ordnance would probably the first in line, since it's a straight shot like every other weapon. Watching tank shells bounce off your commander while he chuckles in the rain could be very inspiring for the schmucks around him.