Haranin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 All ways made sense to me that the smurfs almost missed the entire conflict.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3116002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon950 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 This is assuming that the emperor wasn't able to finish his project. Best guess: Orks almost wiped out Necrons destroyed any time they awake Eldar would show up less Dark Eldar raids would be less Tau.....gone No sisters of battle Would guess no Grey Knights, but who knows. And the cheese of the game would be less Imperial Guard would be something else EPIC battle between the Space Marines and Tyrainds, with maybe the Emperour and main Hive Mind. Abaddon still having his arms rather than losing them to the Swarmlord. No Chaos Space Marines Very little in the way of demons Space Marines still in legions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3116209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 This is assuming that the emperor wasn't able to finish his project.Best guess: Orks almost wiped out Necrons destroyed any time they awake Eldar would show up less Dark Eldar raids would be less Tau.....gone No sisters of battle Would guess no Grey Knights, but who knows. And the cheese of the game would be less Imperial Guard would be something else EPIC battle between the Space Marines and Tyrainds, with maybe the Emperour and main Hive Mind. Abaddon still having his arms rather than losing them to the Swarmlord. No Chaos Space Marines Very little in the way of demons Space Marines still in legions Yeah. Sounds pretty lame to me, too... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3116220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bane of Angels Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 This is assuming that the emperor wasn't able to finish his project.Best guess: Orks almost wiped out Necrons destroyed any time they awake Eldar would show up less Dark Eldar raids would be less Tau.....gone No Chaos Space Marines I agree with most of the points you made but not so sure about the ones I've quoted above. Even if the Emperor had succeeded in his plan it wouldn't necessarily ensure their domination of the galaxy, it may put them in a stronger position but there is nothing to say that chaos wouldn't try something else or that any of the other races would fair any worse against the Legions than the Imperium that came to be. There is nothing to say that the Emperor's plan to re-unite humanity would have actually succeeded regardless of the Heresy, his resources were stretched pretty thin when the Heresy broke which is why he returned to Terra to continue his work. The guy was powerful by human standards but as the Heresy shows us he was far from infallible which is what ultimately lead to his downfall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3116624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broker Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 If Chaos hadn't corrupted the Primarchs, it would have had a crack at some hitherto unknown xeno race. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3116862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Bah ! Glory to the eight-fold path! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3116947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Part of me wishes that the Great Crusades had finished, however the pragmatic side of me acknowledges that the human race is at it's best when it is challenged. So in a sense, it is the struggle that makes the story so complelling. Having said that, I don't believe that Chaos would have yielded or been destroyed by the Emperor's efforts. I suspect that if Horus hadn't been corrupted, then someone else would have. It is just part of the human condition...and it wouldn't necessarily have needed to be a Prirmarch, though they are an obvious target. I think Chaos could have just as easily begun a plague of psychics (like worse than alpha level) and the Imperium would have had their hands full. Think about what it could be like if corrupted armies could just show up in places because they can will themselves there. Add in freaky powerful psychic powers and all of a sudden you have a vast multitude (imagine something behaving like psychic army ants) showing up everywhere and then co-opting/corrupting everyone they come in contact with. I know, it sounds a lot like Tyranids, but instead of destroying everything they come in contact with, this army changes it and continues to produce more units in the army. I'm rambling now, but I do like Dan Abnett's novel Double Eagle because at the end, he shows that there is still hope for a better life. Oddly, that's why I decided to become a Space Marine player after EoT. I wanted to believe that I was fighting for a cause that still had hope. Cheers, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3116999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrios Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Anyone wish the Hersy didnt happen? The Emperor probably. figured someone would beat me to this lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3119690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 ... any of the other races would fair any worse against the Legions than the Imperium that came to be. There is nothing to say that the Emperor's plan to re-unite humanity would have actually succeeded regardless of the Heresy, his resources were stretched pretty thin when the Heresy broke which is why he returned to Terra to continue his work. The guy was powerful by human standards but as the Heresy shows us he was far from infallible which is what ultimately lead to his downfall. The other races probably would fare worse. Remember than in 30k, you usually didn't send a squad or a company of Astartes to deal with a problem. You just :cussed them over with all 100k of the true embodiment of badass and curbstomped them. The entire crusade was a series of curbstomps after curbstomps. Also, the Emperor returned to Terra to work on the webway, so he could (in essence) remove any dependency on psykers for travel. Yes, I exaggerated a bit, but you get the point. "Walk softly and carry a big gun" was more like "Run screaming at the enemy waving a bazooka in their faces". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3119724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleax Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 ... any of the other races would fair any worse against the Legions than the Imperium that came to be. There is nothing to say that the Emperor's plan to re-unite humanity would have actually succeeded regardless of the Heresy, his resources were stretched pretty thin when the Heresy broke which is why he returned to Terra to continue his work. The guy was powerful by human standards but as the Heresy shows us he was far from infallible which is what ultimately lead to his downfall. The other races probably would fare worse. Remember than in 30k, you usually didn't send a squad or a company of Astartes to deal with a problem. You just :cussed them over with all 100k of the true embodiment of badass and curbstomped them. The entire crusade was a series of curbstomps after curbstomps. Also, the Emperor returned to Terra to work on the webway, so he could (in essence) remove any dependency on psykers for travel. Yes, I exaggerated a bit, but you get the point. "Walk softly and carry a big gun" was more like "Run screaming at the enemy waving a bazooka in their faces". Yup I agree. However Remember than in 30k, you usually didn't send a squad or a company of Astartes to deal with a problem. is "fluff" to fit the skirmish Warhammer 40,000 game really - in a war for the victory you send all your forces, not fourty men....or it's being risky Cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3119731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 ...in a war for the victory you send all your forces, not fourty men....or it's being risky. You send what you need to get the job done, whether thats four or four thousand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3119962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Without the Heresy, there would be no Chaos Marines. Without Chaos Marines, I would not have started playing this game 17 years ago. I for one am glad the Heresy happened. ;) But I'm with Legatus on the Heresy series, stopped reading it after Legion because of how they screwed with the Alpha Legion. Twin primarchs? Fighting for Chaos to save the galaxy from Chaos in the long run? No longer turning traitor because it gave them the chance to prove their methods were superior to other marines? Not cool, guys, not cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3119973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So, instead of summoning that great warp storm before attacking the Ultramarines, keeping them in the dark and adhering to the last two decades of fluff, BL instead has the Word Bearers attack them first and then summon the storm, restricting the Ultramarines to sitting on their asses for the next couple of years of the heresy. So, previously: The Ultramarines did nothing because they did not know something was going on. Now: The Ultramarines knew what was going on, and still did nothing. Great retcon there, BL. (To be fair, after having sat still for two years, the Ultramarines will then probably get more involved in the remaining four or five years of the Heresy. Of course, that is also a retcon.) They sat still but Black Library did provide a good explanation for why they stood still. The after mentioned warp storm and the loss of most of the Ultramarine fleet made it rather hard to move anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3120427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Rolunde Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Aren't we getting like 2 more books to shed more light on what was going on with the Ultras besides them potentially just hanging out building up their base or previously having been clueless? And I agree in game I am sure there are a lot of characters that would prefer it didn't happen in fact probably nearly all of them, and yeah "the Emperor" is the best 'bazinga' answer. But as a Game, no way. It wouldn't be 40k if not for the HH. That said, I do really like what they were doing with the setting during the Rogue Trader days, hard to imagine how it would have turned out if they didn't blow it up with Chaos and the HH. But I'm really enjoying the overall Lore of the Black Library HH novels, if not each actual book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3120464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bane of Angels Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 The other races probably would fare worse. Remember than in 30k, you usually didn't send a squad or a company of Astartes to deal with a problem. You just :cussed them over with all 100k of the true embodiment of badass and curbstomped them. The entire crusade was a series of curbstomps after curbstomps. Also, the Emperor returned to Terra to work on the webway, so he could (in essence) remove any dependency on psykers for travel. Yes, I exaggerated a bit, but you get the point. "Walk softly and carry a big gun" was more like "Run screaming at the enemy waving a bazooka in their faces". Yeah I can see what you're saying but what you have to remember is that that approach failed big time on a biblical scale, hence the Heresy and that there are no guarantees that the Emperor's plan to utilise the webway would succeed. There's nothing to say that chaos wouldn't have had greater success with another species or rule out any possibility of another source of internal rebellion. Plus you had Legions like the Night Lords and Thousand Sons on the verge of suffering the same fate as the Lost Legions just before the Heresy broke and over the next ten thousand years who is to say that the others would remain one hundred percent loyal to the Emperor, especially with the rivalry between the Primarchs. Despite the influence of chaos, the Heresy shows that there were primarchs that doubted their father and it was this seed of doubt that chaos used to nurture their rebellion. The Heresy and the introduction of the Codex demonstrates that the curb stomp approach didn't work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3120985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleax Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 ...in a war for the victory you send all your forces, not fourty men....or it's being risky. You send what you need to get the job done, whether thats four or four thousand. Not want to derail the thread, you don't send 4 or 40 marines, or worst, 40 marines with the Chapter Master. ^_^ But I am fine with that as Epic is mostly dead by now. Cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3121368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIDM Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I'm a firm believer that The Heresy didn't happen ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3121395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 The Heresy and the introduction of the Codex demonstrates that the curb stomp approach didn't work. The Heresy and the Codex showed us that the Emperor's curb stomp approach didn't work all the way (it came close). The Primarchs were ultimately his undoing, unfortunately. Perhaps another method would've been more successful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3121402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Abaddon still having his arms rather than losing them to the Swarmlord. Hang on, what?! I've never heard that before, what's the source? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3121746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Abaddon still having his arms rather than losing them to the Swarmlord. Hang on, what?! I've never heard that before, what's the source? I think he means Calgar! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3121772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Abaddon still having his arms rather than losing them to the Swarmlord. Hang on, what?! I've never heard that before, what's the source? I think he means Calgar! Even so, I can find references to Calgar being "gravely wounded", "rent and torn" and "laid low". I can't find anything that specifies he lost his arms to the Swarmlord and I'm curious as to where it is mentioned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3121827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Hang on, what?! I've never heard that before, what's the source? clicky Check out The "No Arms" meme. It's a joke because the metal model's arms kept falling off. Also, he's a failure and no one likes him. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3122277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Mk.231 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Fair enough ... and that is the main reason I don't like the model (or metal models in general). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3122850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 If the heresy hadn't happened then it would have been a very peaceful Imperium with any and all external threats dealt with quickly and with extreme prejudice. In the enlightened golden age of the far future there is only peace and prosperity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3122923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I think the misleading assumption here is that had Erebus's plan not worked that all would have carried on being fine and dandy. Now let's say Magnus successfully rescues Horus from Chaos in the Serpent Lodge. Horus now knows about the Chaos Gods and has seen their power, he knows Lorgar is planning to betray the Emperor and his brothers so serve them and he knows Magnus has broken the Emperor's decree on sorcery, but in doing so has saved Horus. He also knows that the Big E knew all about Chaos and told him nothing, leaving him vulnerable. Meanwhile a daemon has just been summoned on his flagship and subsequently banished by an ordinary human's faith in the Emperor. Horus isn't going to be the type to ignore all of this, he's going to be demanding answers from both Magnus and the Emperor and he's going to want to bring Lorgar to account. Word of the 'miracle' on board the ship is going to spread pretty fast, so you've got the Imperial Truth and this new faith coming into conflict all over the place and along with it wider knowledge of the Warp. How will the Emperor respond to this turn of events? How will the other Primarchs handle knowledge of the Warp in this context? Will they trust Magnus and Horus, the Emperor or maybe even Lorgar? You're very possibly going to have a whole new civil war on your hands. Lorgar accuses Magnus of corrupting Horus with his sorcery, something Russ, Corax and Mortarion are all too ready to believe. You've got a real fight on your hands between several legions with the Emperor and Primarchs having to choose how to respond. Alternatively, let's say Loken foils Erebus's plan to steal the Anatheme from the Interex. You've got a whole new scenario there where Horus learns from the Interex about Chaos, and sees evidence that one of his brothers may well have been corrupted. How does Horus deal with this knowledge? Will he trust the word of his own officer and this new culture over one of his own brothers? How does a peaceful encounter with a more advanced, tolerant human civilization change the Great Crusade? No heresy doesn't have to mean happily ever after. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255683-anyone-wish-the-heresy-didnt-happen/page/2/#findComment-3123040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.