Anyone wish the Heresy didnt happen?

[Legatus]

He also knows that the Big E knew all about Chaos and told him nothing, leaving him vulnerable.

Ah, the good old times when the stated goal of the Great Crusade had been to liberate the human worlds from Chaos oppression. Alas, it made too much sense. Or perhaps it was just not enough moral ambiguity and conspiracy.

[Paragate]

I love the optimism of the Great Crusade, and given the choice I would love to just play a space marine army from that time, all of the time. I hope its true that forge world are making a Great Crusade book.Anyone feel the same? or not?

Yes. I like 40k as it is. But. like you, I am an optimist. I fight during M41 to bring humanity back from its stagnant superstitious situation and reset a golden age of rationalism and civilisation. I want to see an enlightened sequel rather than a romantic but ultimately doomed prequel. Thats my opinion at least. 

[[TA]Typher]

The Primarchs were too much of of divas for the heresy not to have happened. Sure, it might have been smaller and easier to end, but I'm sure some of them would have turned.

 

[Veteran Sergeant]

I kinda wish the book series didn't happen sometimes.

However, I do think the Heresy is a cool part of the 40K background. But even before the Heresy was conceived, the universe was still fairly dark. It just didn't have Chaos so much.

[Carach]

I have to say I would have liked to have seen what the fate of the Legions and Primarchs would have been if they had completed their Crusade. I can't remember which book it was but it was more than hinted that once that was done the Astartes and their Primarchs would have no real role in the Imperium at that point. It would have added more if the true "Heresy" had occurred once that was almost done and half the Primarchs sussed out that the Emperor was going to "retire" them because he had no use for them any more.

 

speculation among some was that they would be retired. among others they believed they would have futures in different roles. and others still, that some inbuilt genetic code would ultimately kill them all off ala thunder warriors. Considering the skills many of them possessed (administrative, architects, blacksmiths, psykers - magnus certainly was required for the future) and the other threats known/probably known to the emperor, i doubt they'd have been retired or killed off. but hey.

[BrotherAtrox]

There's no 'completing' the Great Crusade. The Primarchs and the Legions are entities designed for war. They cannot function in a peacetime setting as they are not in any way trained for such a thing. This isn't as simple as a veteran returning from a war to readjust to civilian life (and look how much trouble THAT produces). This is a genetically modified, psycho-indoctrinated, post-human war machine. There is no retirement. The state of eternal war that has been created is exactly the environment in which such individuals will thrive.

[DarthMarko]

Robby G disagree's with you...^

[Paragate]

 

 

I have to say I would have liked to have seen what the fate of the Legions and Primarchs would have been if they had completed their Crusade. I can't remember which book it was but it was more than hinted that once that was done the Astartes and their Primarchs would have no real role in the Imperium at that point. It would have added more if the true "Heresy" had occurred once that was almost done and half the Primarchs sussed out that the Emperor was going to "retire" them because he had no use for them any more.

speculation among some was that they would be retired. among others they believed they would have futures in different roles. and others still, that some inbuilt genetic code would ultimately kill them all off ala thunder warriors. Considering the skills many of them possessed (administrative, architects, blacksmiths, psykers - magnus certainly was required for the future) and the other threats known/probably known to the emperor, i doubt they'd have been retired or killed off. but hey.

This I agree with. There would be a role for them all in some respect after the crusade came to an end. Moreover, there would always be the escalating Tyrannic void predators to cope with for those more brutal warmongers who have trouble settling down- so to speak. Even the majority of Necrons would yield to the Triarch in response to a Tyranid threat.. till ends meet. Orks would remain a sparing threat at best. Response times would be little concern If the web way was mastered much like the Eldar or Old Ones once had it. This is the Master work after all. Who can say how effective galactic logistics would have been. Much like introducing Flight to the 16th century. Or even the internet! Judging by human culture (and therefore intellectual nature) at the time of the heresy, not so dissimilar to todays, war would persists but it would be far from chaotic. The Emperor had a vision, yet to be realised, that he inherited from humanity. It is our destiny- or lacking Will and fortitude. Someone else's. I doubt the Tau. Eldar are wise enough not to repeat old mistakes. Dark eldar are little more than pirates and raiders in the long run, villains but not conquerors. SO i suppose what I am left saying is that the galaxy could see peace as we know it today on earth. It would just be a matter of logistics and Duty. There is no evidence to suggest that a Primarch can't 'retire' himself after aeons of service. They are after all. 'Only human'.

 

Well- thats how I like to look at the future at least.

 

 

Went off on a Tangent. Apologies if this offends..

[Veteran Sergeant]

The other thing is that the Space Marines of 30K have been shown to be different than the Space Marines of 40K. 

 

It's important to note that this could be authorial license to try and make them a little bit more three dimensional than 40K Space Marines should be. 

 

But it's possible that the heavily indoctrinated warrior monk Space Marines are a creation of the 40K universe where Space Marines are more specially trained to be resistant to corruption.  After all, there was no known need for heavy indoctrination in 30K.  Go humanity go, die cursed xeno scum, and all that was sufficient  After the Heresy, there was suddenly a need for the Space Marines to also be resistant to Chaos.  And despite how it looks sometimes in the 40K lore, it's been fairly successful.  There really aren't that many renegade and traitor chapters, proportionately.  Whereas at the time of the Heresy, roughly half the Space Marines were turned. 
 

[Paragate]

thats a good point ^

[BrotherAtrox]

Even in modern society we have trouble helping veterans adjust to civilian life after. How could it not be exponentially more difficult to adjust someone like an Astartes to an existence of peace? Literally his existence is no longer valid. He was designed for war. If war is no longer his function, he is no longer fulfilling his purpose. Maybe a small percentage of marines could adjust, but I can't imagine it being a statistically significant number.

[W0lfie]

If you think about the history of the imperium as a single story, the Horus Heresy would be the conflict.  Every story needs conflict.  How boring would the fluff be if it was just "Imperial Crusade A attacks Xenos B.  Xenos B dies.  The end."  Forever and ever and ever...

 

I agree that it is almost painful, seeing so much potential destroyed in so short a time, but ultimately it is a large part of what makes 40k worth following (Otherwise there would be no chaos space marines, chaos daemons [starved by the Imperial Truth], xenos [exterminated] etc., there would only be SPESS MEHREENS).

[Paragate]

Even in modern society we have trouble helping veterans adjust to civilian life after. How could it not be exponentially more difficult to adjust someone like an Astartes to an existence of peace? Literally his existence is no longer valid. He was designed for war. If war is no longer his function, he is no longer fulfilling his purpose. Maybe a small percentage of marines could adjust, but I can't imagine it being a statistically significant number.

This is all opinion and speculation. I'm simply acting as Nay smith. 

 

In short: I think you're getting lost in semantics

 

 

For fun: Psyker therapy? I'm sure that would work a treat.

The lower enumerations etc. but I want to avoid these speculations of post traumatic stress treatments.

 

( i have no idea what a veteran guardsman would dream about after he somehow survives a lictor attack coming out at him from seemingly nowhere, narrowly escaping, only to see all his comrades explode outwardly spraying gore and biological acid onto him, force fighting feasting ripper swarms and those horrid burrowing Beetles in his felsh! "bugs. I hate bugs." )

 

Astarte's  probably don't suffer from post traumatic stress so very easily. thats the point of an Astartes i would hazard to say.

Just the perpetual boredom and repetitive lumber of near immortality might drive them insane and so kill themselves out of a very seriously deep seated depression. 

 

 Regardless. There will always be war in some form or another to occupy them if you think of them as mindless killers easily distracted like a dog hungry for a bone. Personally i think thats a bit unfair on their brains and mental capacity to be creative and interesting people...  

 

Here are a very few things a space marine might attempt on civi street.  a) The Astarte would be the most incredible Fire Fighter.  Or b) space explorers and void mechanics.

Just consider the film Prometheus with the majority of the cast Astartes. There is always going to be hazardous life evolving at rapid rates to contest with. It's a big and ever expanding universe - plus humans will always fall to chaos so long as they have the capacity to be truly human. So there will always be some silly cult trying to take over the a system or two in the name of something cultish... its so easy for people to fall to 'chaos' propaganda.  

Interex had the right idea. How I love the Interex. 

 

ANYWAYZ:

Loads of things to do with your super human strength. a galaxy of potential exercises. Space marine contact Sports? The Olympics games? it was meant for the gods of war after all. 

*shrugs*  ​Keep Orks as pets and start a blood sport. keeps everybody happy? but space marines don't like it when their friends die. so maybe contact sport is best? 

[Carach]

were still countless threats both remaining and yet to arrive in the galaxy at the time of all these astartes and primarchs alike discussing their future role on the crusade's wind-down.

 

planetary governors, a police force, army instructors, scholars, builders, scientists... the list goes on and on. Only a few of the legions were so one dimensional as to be designed specifically for war. 

[Wade Garrett]

Suuuuure the Emperor planned for the Astartes to be utilitized in a post war galaxy, Rob. I think Arik Taranis, the Thunder Lord, might disagree with your little "My father does not makes mistakes of that magnitude".

 

As for the Great Crusade being a series of curbstomps, the laer alone ran up a heavy butcher's bill for Fulgrim's Legion. Many worlds both human and xenos did not go gentle into the Emperor's good night.

 

Sigismund had the right of it, the Crusade would have fought for centuries to claim its territory, then fought forever to keep it. You dismiss the greenskin..so did the Emperor, until the hands were round his throat at Ullanor.

 

You say the eldar would not repeat old mistakes..do you think they'd meekly sit by and let the mon-keigh Emperor crack open their last refuge?

 

As for the Necrons and Tyranids, the Emperor has never shown the slightest awareness of their existence, to think he'd snuff their threat in its cradle is Adeptus Sororitas level of faith in the Master of Mankind.

 

In the far future...

THERE!

IS!

ONLY!

WAR!

[Carach]

the emperor had imprisoned one of the necron 'gods' - he has to have been aware of their existence? 

 

and the tyranids being such a gigantic psychic shadow, for the uberest psyker in the galaxy is it not likely that he sensed at least something of the threat to come? 

 

tyranids are perhaps farfetched but the necrons he has got to know about at least in myth and the like.

[Wade Garrett]

Considering that the "uberest psyker in the galaxy" repeatedly failed to pick up on Kor Phereon and Erebus being sworn thralls to the Ruinous Powers...

[Carach]

lol good point. but chaos clouded his vision did it not? chaos powers are more cunning than the brute shadow that is the tyranid hivemind.

 

im just being devils advocate as this is all just speculation :)

[Wade Garrett]

No worries, Carach. I just think Emps is being given slightly more credit than he deserves in thread. After all, "That's the problem with being all knowing and all powerful-you can't be both at the same time."

Jumping tracks, many of the posters waxing eloquent about the optimism of the Great Crusade remind me of historians praising the Pax Romana... could the dead but speak, Vercingtorex and Spartacus would disagree.

 

And the Diasporex, the Quietude, and the Kings of Shrike would paint a rather different picture of the Emperor's quest for galactic dominion.

[Carach]

ultra-realists, the emperor and the romans were. they werent afraid to break a few eggs to make that omelette :P