How SW deal with Flyers, maybe?

[Emptyedens]

First according to the rule book Advanced rules override Basic rules. Flyers and skimmers movement are basic rules and Physic powers from our codex are advanced rules, I think, right?

 

The basic rules for flyers and skimmers are that they "ignore difficult and dangerous terrain as the move OVER it". MH and TW make all terrain Diff and dangerous even the air. As that is an advanced rule would that override the skimmer movement rule and if so would skimmers and flyers have to test 2d6 for diff and dangerous?

 

Further if that is the case as I expect since I can cast MH on "any enemy unit" which would include flyers. They would have to test on 2d6. Since Zoom says that if they can't move less then 18 inches when zooming or the insta-wreck wouldn't casting MH on them make them insta-wreck while they were zooming?

 

I am probably way off base with this as it would be too good to be true, but it just might be one of those things that were so simple that we over looked them in the rules.

[Heimdall Skullcrusher]

Just from a general sense it is difficult/dangerous to fly in a hurricane so it would make sense and I would hope it would work. As far as it overriding the fact that they don't take difficult and dangerous terrain test, I'm not sure.

[foolishzero]

deleted by user

[Jaarl Stormfang]

The power can make all terrain difficult and dangerous. Flyers Ignore difficult and dangerous terrain. I think that's pretty clear cut to be honest. Air isn't terrain.

 

I agree that it should be difficult to fly in a hurricane but as it stands in the rules it doesn't work like that.

[Valerian]

The power can make all terrain difficult and dangerous. Flyers Ignore difficult and dangerous terrain. I think that's pretty clear cut to be honest. Air isn't terrain.

 

I agree that it should be difficult to fly in a hurricane but as it stands in the rules it doesn't work like that.

 

Agreed.

[Emptyedens]

The codex overrules the BRB as per the BRB. The description for MH says "Next turn that unit treats all terrain as both difficult and dangerous". The BRB says flyers ignore diff and dang. In that case we have the codex contradicting the BRB. The BRB says in this case the codex wins so the flyer has to treat all terrain as diff and dang. Further on the BRB defines how units treat diff and dang which is the 2d6 roll for movement. Worse case then the flyer will not be able to move, if it can hover, if it can't hover insta-kill. If it can hover then it is restricted to 2d6 move and a dang test. If it fails dang. test it would wreck if it went flat out. I think my logic is sound.

 

MH is a shooting attack of 3d6 hits but whether the shots hit or not the unit is still affected by the power and have to treat as diff and dang.

 

This is way we don't have any tank based AA as we already have the best AA units in the game at only a 100 points

 

 

 

(Can I have an honor or something for being the first to figure this out? LOL)

(How about hero of the fang?)

[Kassill]

The codex overrules the BRB as per the BRB. The description for MH says "Next turn that unit treats all terrain as both difficult and dangerous". The BRB says flyers ignore diff and dang. In that case we have the codex contradicting the BRB. The BRB says in this case the codex wins so the flyer has to treat all terrain as diff and dang. Further on the BRB defines how units treat diff and dang which is the 2d6 roll for movement. Worse case then the flyer will not be able to move, if it can hover, if it can't hover insta-kill. If it can hover then it is restricted to 2d6 move and a dang test. If it fails dang. test it would wreck if it went flat out. I think my logic is sound.

 

MH is a shooting attack of 3d6 hits but whether the shots hit or not the unit is still affected by the power and have to treat as diff and dang.

 

This is way we don't have any tank based AA as we already have the best AA units in the game at only a 100 points

 

 

 

(Can I have an honor or something for being the first to figure this out? LOL)

(How about hero of the fang?)

 

 

But the BRB states that they ignore Difficult and Dangerous. Doesn't matter if it's from a shooting attack or from actual terrain on the board, the flyer ingores it.

 

 

Actually, upon further reading, it says...

 

Pg 80 second paragraph under "Zoom"

 

"...In addition, a Zooming flyer does not have to take a Dangerous Terrain test even if it starts or stops over difficult, dangerous or impassable terrain. ..."

 

So, can it still be forced to take a Difficult Terrain test then from MH?

 

 

I'm sorry I jumped the gun on my initial response. ;)

[Emptyedens]

Yes as per their rules they are allowed to ignore it but MH insists that they can't. MH makes them treat all terrain as difficult and dangerous which means that if they move they have to follow the rules for difficult and dangerous.

[Grimtooth]

As already noted over on DakkaDakka, You Make Da Call, MH will not work on flyers.

 

MH makes them treat all terrain as both dangeroud and difficult. So how do flyers deal with dangerous and difficult terrain? They ignore it. Just because they are forced to treat something as one thing, does not mean they ignore their own rules for how they deal with it.

[Emptyedens]

As already noted over on DakkaDakka, You Make Da Call, MH will not work on flyers.

 

MH makes them treat all terrain as both dangeroud and difficult. So how do flyers deal with dangerous and difficult terrain? They ignore it. Just because they are forced to treat something as one thing, does not mean they ignore their own rules for how they deal with it.

 

Thats not quite right, they do not ignore the terrain. Their rule says, "...In addition, a Zooming flyer does not have to take a Dangerous Terrain test even if it starts or stops over difficult, dangerous or impassable terrain. ...". Nothing exempts it from having to test if it enters the terrain which because of MH if it moves it will have to test like any other vehicle has to test.

[Kassill]

As already noted over on DakkaDakka, You Make Da Call, MH will not work on flyers.

 

MH makes them treat all terrain as both dangeroud and difficult. So how do flyers deal with dangerous and difficult terrain? They ignore it. Just because they are forced to treat something as one thing, does not mean they ignore their own rules for how they deal with it.

 

Thats not quite right, they do not ignore the terrain. Their rule says, "...In addition, a Zooming flyer does not have to take a Dangerous Terrain test even if it starts or stops over difficult, dangerous or impassable terrain. ...". Nothing exempts it from having to test if it enters the terrain which because of MH if it moves it will have to test like any other vehicle has to test.

 

 

 

^This.

 

 

Also remember, not all Difficult Terrain is Dangerous Terrain, and nowhere that I have found yet say that Flyers ignore Difficult Terrain. Only that it doesn't not have to make a Dangerous Terrain test.

[Lucien Eilam]

Also remember, not all Difficult Terrain is Dangerous Terrain, and nowhere that I have found yet say that Flyers ignore Difficult Terrain. Only that it doesn't not have to make a Dangerous Terrain test.

 

All Vehicles treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain instead of being slowed by it. p.71

 

Flyer don't have to take Dangerous Terrain tests even if they start or stop on it. Even, not only. That means they don't have to take them at all.

 

Murderous Hurricane does nothing to Flyers.

[clanfield]

or buy a ageis line with quad gun hide your long fangs behind said shield wall and shoot the buggers down with a dedicated aa gun ...?

[Simo429]

Personally I don't think thats RAW at all its just not true, MH does not affect fliers.

[Wulfebane]

As already noted over on DakkaDakka, You Make Da Call, MH will not work on flyers.

 

MH makes them treat all terrain as both dangeroud and difficult. So how do flyers deal with dangerous and difficult terrain? They ignore it. Just because they are forced to treat something as one thing, does not mean they ignore their own rules for how they deal with it.

 

Thats not quite right, they do not ignore the terrain. Their rule says, "...In addition, a Zooming flyer does not have to take a Dangerous Terrain test even if it starts or stops over difficult, dangerous or impassable terrain. ...". Nothing exempts it from having to test if it enters the terrain which because of MH if it moves it will have to test like any other vehicle has to test.

 

Except for the part where they're exempt. Ramses has it right. Scenario: A flyer comes into range of MH diff/dang terrain. The flyer must now treat the area as difficult and dangerous. When a flyer treats terrain as difficult and/or dangerous, they still do "not have to take Dangerous Terrain tests".

 

There is nothing in the rules for MH that compels something to take a terrain test. MH only forces it to treat the terrain differently, for which their own rules for terrain types come into effect.

[eyeslikethunder]

Will add to my FAQ questions

[Byrne]

would Njals "Lord of tempest" affect fliers? chain lightning, vengeful tonado and Living hurricane?

[Kassill]

Also remember, not all Difficult Terrain is Dangerous Terrain, and nowhere that I have found yet say that Flyers ignore Difficult Terrain. Only that it doesn't not have to make a Dangerous Terrain test.

 

All Vehicles treat Difficult Terrain as Dangerous Terrain instead of being slowed by it. p.71

 

Flyer don't have to take Dangerous Terrain tests even if they start or stop on it. Even, not only. That means they don't have to take them at all.

 

Murderous Hurricane does nothing to Flyers.

 

 

Ah, thank you. So much easier when someone give a page number reference to prove their point. :cry:

 

So no MH for AA use then.

[Schertenleib]

So as long as they are Zooming we can't touch them with MH or Tempest. As soon as they drop to hover to unload/load troops etc... we can. (Hover counts as Fast Skimmer)

 

So my question would be:

 

If the Flyer is hit with MH while in Hover mode would it have to test if it transitions to Zoom mode?

[Stormbrow II]

I'm with the crowd that are saying MH won't affect flyers.

 

would Njals "Lord of tempest" affect fliers? chain lightning, vengeful tonado and Living hurricane?

Why wouldn't it? Plebs on the ground are able to shoot at Flyers but hit on 6s. Njal's stuff doesn't. Driving Gale, Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning will be able to affect flyers. In fact, Njal is our best AA unit available as you don't need to roll to hit with the last 2 mentioned results: you just hit them for D3 and D6 hits respectively.

[Grimtooth]

I'm with the crowd that are saying MH won't affect flyers.

 

would Njals "Lord of tempest" affect fliers? chain lightning, vengeful tonado and Living hurricane?

Why wouldn't it? Plebs on the ground are able to shoot at Flyers but hit on 6s. Njal's stuff doesn't. Driving Gale, Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning will be able to affect flyers. In fact, Njal is our best AA unit available as you don't need to roll to hit with the last 2 mentioned results: you just hit them for D3 and D6 hits respectively.

 

I am at work right now, but there is a page in the rulebook stating something along the lines that shooting attacks that do not use a ballistic skill or automatically hit, cannot target or will not hit flyers. I forget where it is, but will look for it later.

 

Edit:

 

It is under the Snap Fire rules about any shooting attack not having a BS cannot be used in Snap Fire.

[Karack Blackstone]

I'm with the crowd that are saying MH won't affect flyers.

 

would Njals "Lord of tempest" affect fliers? chain lightning, vengeful tonado and Living hurricane?

Why wouldn't it? Plebs on the ground are able to shoot at Flyers but hit on 6s. Njal's stuff doesn't. Driving Gale, Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning will be able to affect flyers. In fact, Njal is our best AA unit available as you don't need to roll to hit with the last 2 mentioned results: you just hit them for D3 and D6 hits respectively.

 

I am at work right now, but there is a page in the rulebook stating something along the lines that shooting attacks that do not use a ballistic skill or automatically hit, cannot target or will not hit flyers. I forget where it is, but will look for it later.

 

Edit:

 

It is under the Snap Fire rules about any shooting attack not having a BS cannot be used in Snap Fire.

 

That makes sense. I think the larger issue is that a mostly 2D tabletop game is using rules to include 3D models and effects; since near as I can figure most of this is new stuff, what we know from 5th is essentially in the relearn the rules from the ground up all across the board for 6th. At least that's my call here.

 

The rules don't really translate how one came to any given conclusion well without more information, or better clarity of information.

[Valerian]

I'm with the crowd that are saying MH won't affect flyers.

 

would Njals "Lord of tempest" affect fliers? chain lightning, vengeful tonado and Living hurricane?

Why wouldn't it? Plebs on the ground are able to shoot at Flyers but hit on 6s. Njal's stuff doesn't. Driving Gale, Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning will be able to affect flyers. In fact, Njal is our best AA unit available as you don't need to roll to hit with the last 2 mentioned results: you just hit them for D3 and D6 hits respectively.

 

I am at work right now, but there is a page in the rulebook stating something along the lines that shooting attacks that do not use a ballistic skill or automatically hit, cannot target or will not hit flyers. I forget where it is, but will look for it later.

 

Edit:

 

It is under the Snap Fire rules about any shooting attack not having a BS cannot be used in Snap Fire.

 

True, but this should not matter, right? We are talking about Njal's Lord of Tempest abilities, not shooting attacks, so the fact that they affect targets without using BS to hit is irrelevant. Right?

 

Valerian

[Grimtooth]

I'm with the crowd that are saying MH won't affect flyers.

 

would Njals "Lord of tempest" affect fliers? chain lightning, vengeful tonado and Living hurricane?

Why wouldn't it? Plebs on the ground are able to shoot at Flyers but hit on 6s. Njal's stuff doesn't. Driving Gale, Vengeful Tornado and Chain Lightning will be able to affect flyers. In fact, Njal is our best AA unit available as you don't need to roll to hit with the last 2 mentioned results: you just hit them for D3 and D6 hits respectively.

 

I am at work right now, but there is a page in the rulebook stating something along the lines that shooting attacks that do not use a ballistic skill or automatically hit, cannot target or will not hit flyers. I forget where it is, but will look for it later.

 

Edit:

 

It is under the Snap Fire rules about any shooting attack not having a BS cannot be used in Snap Fire.

 

True, but this should not matter, right? We are talking about Njal's Lord of Tempest abilities, not shooting attacks, so the fact that they affect targets without using BS to hit is irrelevant. Right?

 

Valerian

 

Yes, it does not matter. For a second there I was classing his Lord of Tempest attacks as shooting attacks. Njal could very well toss up quite a problem for flyers as his abilities are neither shooting or assault.

[Valerian]

Yes, it does not matter. For a second there I was classing his Lord of Tempest attacks as shooting attacks. Njal could very well toss up quite a problem for flyers as his abilities are neither shooting or assault.

 

Ah, very good then. Makes sense to me, though, that one of the best ways to defend against aircraft flying in, around, and over your battlefield is to have the Rune Lord that can create a Hurricane, Tornado, Tsunami, Blizzard, or what-have-you, to turn that area into very unfavorable flying conditions.

 

V