Hyaenidae Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Can't believe I never noticed this before, but does anyone know why the pre-heresy White Scars didn't have the red edging to their shoulder pauldrons? Pre-heresy Post-heresy Thanks in advance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Could be that it wasn't a major part of the pattern. That some simply have them and some don't. It could be that the current White Scars follow the codex astartes down to using the various shoulder trims to designate companies, though I doubt it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I think company representation would make a lot of sense. Another explanation might be commemorating the attack on the Lion's Gate spaceport. I recall that having rather nasty casualties in older fluff. But probably company representation (well, Brotherhood. You know what I mean). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 I've never seen anything but red edging, which would make it a poor way of distiguishing brotherhoods. 1st Brotherhood: Crimson 2nd Brotherhood: Auburn 3rd Brotherhood: Maroon ....etc. No, not really seeing that one happening. A commemoration / mark of mourning / special honour does make sense, though. Hmmm... I guess I was just wondering if there was any fluff supporting the addition of the edging. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Don't see many Ultramarines without yellow, either. Doesn't mean that's not what the shoulder trim's supposed to be for. This: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/File:Wh...ursandBadge.JPG would suggest that it's supposed to be company color, and people just haven't noticed/REALLY like whatever company it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 But there's fluff support for the Ultra's having different colors. Just because blue and gold looks the best (because I have to admit, blue and gold looks good, lol), doesn't mean the Ultras don't have walls of pics of blue and white, blue and red, even blue and purple, etc... No such luck with the Scars. Always red and white, always. Edit cuz you ninja'd: Hmmm. A possibility, then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 How can I ninja you seven minutes before you posted? ^_^ I think this may have as much to do with a limited selection of references as anything else. There aren't that many GW pictures of White Scars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Slow ass internet? ^_^ Very true, man. Ah well, maybe if GW will ever do a proper book about the Scars, we'll find out. Personally, I always thought they used types and unique patterns of red tribal markings for company designation.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Personally, I always thought they used types and unique patterns of red tribal markings for company designation.... Must admit, that was always what I thought, so in the post heresy pic at the top the squad/company/brotherhood/whatever designation is as much about the pattern of the red 'slashes' on the legs as it is the colour of the shoulder trims? That's probably completely in my head rather than canon though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 The White Scars Illustration on page 28 of the current Codex Space Marines has white trims (with chest eagle being red), while the models depicted on page 107 have red trims (with chest eagle being golden). That made me suspect that there really is no deliberate intent behind the WS colour scheme, and each artist just uses what scheme he thinks looks good. Personally, I think the red trims look more interesting. But then I noticed that the Rhino on page 107 has a 3rd Company badge, so from this picture alone it could be possible that the red trim models are all supposed to be from 3rd Company (which traditionally has red trims). On the other hand, the illustration on page 27 with the white trims shows a Marine with a tactical badge, so he is not from 1st Company. And on page 114 there is a single White Scars Vanguar Veteran with red trims. So apparently the red trims are not meant to denote Company affiliation after all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Interesting. Thank you, Legatus. Well, for now I'm going to run with my pre-heresy Scars without red trim. Hopefully an answer will come down one day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3111829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 For what its worth, back when Mk7 was first introduced halfway through RT GW made a big deal out of parade schemes vs campaign schemes - Blood Angel and Ultramarine parade schemes had black and white pad trims respectively because that was the colour of their beakie helmet stripes, troops on extended campaign would typically overpaint the trims in the pad colour. Blood Angels appear to still do this - a lot of people like to editionify the issue (2e vs 3e) but both schemes appeared side by side in 3rd edition IA articles (both the BA and the Armageddon 3 one). And why do I mention this? Because the White Scars RT beakie scheme had a red helmet stripe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3113150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speelyi Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 To throw in my 2 cents, I don't think it is codex as the White Scars don't even use companies. They use Brotherhoods as an analog but they don't follow the Codex as a literal document from the bits and pieces that I understand. Lack Dreadnaughts Would rather not use Devastator squads Would rather use sponson-less Predators Many more bikes and speeders Apothecary armor color scheme Librarians as Stormseers, rather than seen as psykers writ large Master of the Hunt as a chapter specific office I'm guessing the red trim is another deviation from Codex guidelines. ~S~ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3114976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennisBall Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I think that over a 10,000 year period, even ultra-conservative marines like to change the colour of the curtains from time to time. If you look at the examples for something as simple as tactical squads markings for the Ultramarines there are a ton of different ways of colouring the pads and representing the squad and other markings. I think the codex says that chapter masters or captains can modify such things to personal taste. The Ultramarines even have metal and solid colour versions for each company colour. There's lots of room for variation over the millennia including representing rank with helmet stripes, arm insignia or anything else. I think too if you go back to the legions, even if the White Scars were a smaller legion you could still expect tens of thousands of them so plenty of opportunity for each Tumen to have it's own way of decorating its armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3115050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Just wish Chris Wraight hurries up and finishes up his WS novel! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3116165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Wait, Wraight has the next WS book? Same fella that wrote The Iron Within? Life just got a little bit better..... B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3116190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Wait, Wraight has the next WS book? Same fella that wrote The Iron Within? Life just got a little bit better..... :lol:Indeed it has. It might be HH...or maybe not, either way I'm happy: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=252750 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3116266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Wait, Wraight has the next WS book? Same fella that wrote The Iron Within? Life just got a little bit better..... :D And "The Battle of the Fang". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3117239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazguire Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Ah...didn't Rob Sanders write 'The Iron Within' ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3117444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisisJimmy Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Just a quick point; that picture from the Index Astartes seems to be the only one with the white trims as opposed to the red ones. All the ones in the Collected Visions (although not the height of 100% fluff accuracy) have the red trims. Also, in A Thousand Sons, during the council of Nikea; Targutai Yesugei, a White Scar Stormseer, is described as "...winter white and trimmed with crimson...". Take from that what you will, I still plan on rocking the white trim, just to separate them from current era White Scars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3122193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Can't believe I never noticed this before, but does anyone know why the pre-heresy White Scars didn't have the red edging to their shoulder pauldrons? They probably did. Many of them, anyway. Bear in mind that's a single Marine out of 100,000. Or back then, even a single Marine out of 10,000. And this was before the Codex. Take in the spirit it's intended: as one guy out of many, as an example of a minor difference between The Heresy and Now. Some companies, squads, battalions, etc. will do it that way, some will do it other ways. Some will have red helmets, others will have red faceplates, others will have red shoulder trimmings, and others red knee pads, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3122222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Too true. I'm just picky when it comes to painting my mini's. I like having all my details straight, thus why I was wondering if I had missed something in the fluff concerning their trim, or if it was one of those things that has never been mentioned before, or it just really didn't matter. I kinda like the lack of red trim, think I'm gonna go with that. Thanks for all your replies, ladies and gents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3122345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Mine avoided the Red rims but used a lot of red in various markings across the army for Squads/Warpaint/lols, but the the way I painted white needs good contrast (So I did some mediocre :tu: ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3122375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Too true. I'm just picky when it comes to painting my mini's. I like having all my details straight, thus why I was wondering if I had missed something in the fluff concerning their trim, or if it was one of those things that has never been mentioned before, or it just really didn't matter. I kinda like the lack of red trim, think I'm gonna go with that. Thanks for all your replies, ladies and gents. You'll post them on B&C, right? Right? Faster, faster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255709-white-scar-colors/#findComment-3122531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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