Constructing Lists with the new stuff

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So, the new Force Org chart is really open at 2k. Not only do you get Allies at any point level, you now get to double up every slot. On top of that, you now get an extra Fortification as well. The question is, how do you fit it together?

 

Knights have a great deal of potential allies, but I'm going to focus on two; Eldar and Guard. The Marine variants we can ally in are handy for the most part, but TBH they kinda replicate stuff we already have.

 

Starting with Guard, the Primaris Psyker is a very good choice. He's cheap (like everything with Guard), and he can roll on the important Telepathy psychic table (which we don't get sadly, its the other awesome one aside from Divination). Secondly, he is an ideal combo with the Psyker Battle Squad, who have two insane powers (the pseudo-Demolisher cannon or the 'you have no Leadership forever' power). Guard also bring slightly better Henchmen aka Veterans, who fulfil mandatory Troops efficiently (Infantry Platoons do not). On top of that, we can ally in a Vendetta squadron (flyers are the new black) and/or a Leman Russ squadron (battle cannons and AV14 is pretty hard to pass up).

 

Eldar are a bit more limited, but still pretty good. Eldrad is an absolute beast, nuff said. For Troops, a cheap Guardian unit with an 'Embolden' Warlock and scatter laser give him a good meatshield and re-rolls to psychic tests (srsly, check the Eldar FAQ). There is nothing we really need in either Elites or Fast Attack (Fire Dragons are one-use), and the Fire Prism can be replicated by a cheap Tech-Marine with conversion beamer.

 

Typically, you're looking to invest about 300-500pts in Allies usually. Anymore than that, you might as well ally in the Knights instead. Remember also, we can't get buffed directly (but powers like 'Doom' or 'Misfortune' still work just fine, as they affect enemy units). Any allies you do take will have to be largely stand alone, so pick wisely. Also we can't hi-jack allied transports, so don't take any more than you need.

 

 

Onto Fortifications;

 

Aegis defense lines are great for two reasons. One, they are dirt-cheap free cover, and can be spread across a wide area. Two, they bring the cheapest source of anti-flyer in the game barring Hydras (with the quad-gun upgrade). For Knights, this is great, as it lessens the need to take PsyDreads or being forced to take allied Guard to get Hydras/Vendettas. Aegis lines also go great with our bread and butter powers, 'Sanctuary' and 'Shrouding'. 3+ cover and being forced to take difficult+dangerous checks when charging in is a real problem for a lot of opponents.

 

Skyshield is a bit more expensive, but not overly so. It has two main uses; giving 4+ invul to vehicles (cover is way easier to get for infantry, and we have 'Shrouding' anyway), and for landing Terminators accurately. Putting a pair of PsyDreads and a Tech-Marine to repair them up on the platform is not overly expensive, and it will frustrate a lot of opponents trying to kill them. That said, it doesn't do a whole lot outside those two uses, so Aegis is going to be better sometimes. Personal choice.

 

Fortress of Redemption is where things get a bit out of hand. This costs around the same as a typical Knight Terminator combat squad, but you can stuff a couple of squads inside and laugh. AV14 buildings don't get destroyed easily, and there are three that make it up (the tower silo, the connecting bridge and the Icarus platform). Add in the pseudo-battle cannon you can buy for it (the missiles go from 'meh' to 'holy god' for about the price of a powerfist), its a nasty little firebase.

Depending on where you place it, it will either break the game or do very little. In the mid-field, packed full of psycannon-laden Purifiers and a Libby, its absolute hell. However, it is a static position like all of them, so it does chain you to it. Again, personal choice, and the Icarus lascannon will swat most flyers out of the sky on decent rolls.

 

 

Double the goodness;

 

So, for starters you still need one HQ and two Troops. If you didn't take Coteaz to begin with, this is where you take him. The other good option is taking a pair of Malleus Inquisitors for extra Divination powers (although you'll usually swap for the Primaris, as its so powerful). The Malleus Inquisitors get even better, as they can take TDA+hammer+psycannon and go on the offensive with say your Purifiers or Terminator blob.

 

Moar Henchmen are the main reason for taking the second detachment. You can still armour spam to absurd levels with this chart (good old 3 x Acolyte+Razorback of choice), and in your primary detachment take Terminators, Purifiers (if you took Crowe) and Strikes all you like.

 

 

Here is a sample list I've put together for 2,500

 

Primary Detachment:

 

HQ:

 

Librarian w/stave, 'Might', 'Sanctuary', 'Shrouding'

(200 points)

 

Coteaz

(100 points)

 

Elites:

 

(2) Flame Knight w/halberd, Purifier w/hammer,

4 x Purifiers w/halberds, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons

(295 points each)

 

Troops:

 

Justicar w/halberd, Terminator w/Bro Banner, 2 x Terminators w/hammers,

2 x Terminators w/halberd+psycannon, 4 x Terminators w/halberds

(475 points)

 

3 x plasma cannon servitors, Chimera w/multi-laser+heavy bolter

(115 points)

 

 

Secondary Detachment:

 

HQ:

 

(2) Terminator Inquisitor w/nemesis hammer+psycannon, 'Hammerhand'

(110 points each)

 

Troops:

 

(2) 3 x Acolytes, Chimera w/multi-laser+heavy bolter

(67 points each)

 

Allied Guard Detachment:

 

HQ:

 

Primaris Psyker

(70 points)

 

Troops:

 

Veteran w/powerfist, Veteran w/demo-charge, 3 x Veterans w/meltaguns, 5 x Veterans w/shotguns, 'Demolitions'

(130 points)

 

Fast Attack:

 

2 x Vendettas

(260 points)

 

Fortifications:

 

(2) Aegis defensive line w/quad gun

(100 points each)

 

Total: 2,500 points

[Gentlemanloser]

Aweosme post.

 

Not to harp on, or flog a dead horse (and I don't want to derail this thread...), but this is the *exact* reason I disagree with the B&C's stance on allies.

 

Here is an informative, well constructed and thought engaging post, yet purely becuase it mentions IG and Eldar as allies, it can't be discussed here (Like a few other threads that remain, even though they shouldn't! :P).

 

At best, it needs to be moved to Tactica, as worst locked/deleted as it mentions the possibility of allying GK to said non PA forces.

 

Which I think is a shame, as this thread would be of benefit to the forum as a whole.

[Mr.darkness]

Just before this may get locked or moved, I just want to say that runes of warding work against all enemy psychic powers, and seen as GK will count as enemies that cannot be targeted, and runes force you to roll three dice for all enemy psykers, then you will have to take all the GK powers on 3d6.

[Abaddonshand]

I wonder, will the henchmen taken as troops in the second detachment be legal when Coteaz is in the first detachment?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Er guys, I did check the ruling on Allies discussion. We can talk about parent Knight lists with allied IG/Eldar/whatever on the Grey Knight forum all we like. Its the other way (Knight allies for other armies) that have to be taken to Tactics or Army Lists general forum. Mods feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that is the ruling as it stands currently.

 

Thanks for the support Gentlemanloser :jaw: but as I mentioned above, I wouldn't worry.

 

Just before this may get locked or moved, I just want to say that runes of warding work against all enemy psychic powers, and seen as GK will count as enemies that cannot be targeted, and runes force you to roll three dice for all enemy psykers, then you will have to take all the GK powers on 3d6.

 

Ah damn, forgot about that. Yeah, maybe don't take Eldar then lol

 

I wonder, will the henchmen taken as troops in the second detachment be legal when Coteaz is in the first detachment?

 

Yep, its legit. The wording is 'Henchmen are Troops choices in an army that includes Coteaz'. Remember, all detachments are considered to be part of the same army, even if Convenience or Desperate allies (they just count as enemy units for rules purposes). If your opponent gets retentive about it, just say that Coteaz is a HQ choice in the secondary detachment.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah damn, forgot about that. Yeah, maybe don't take Eldar then lol

 

Just like SW Rune Priests. :jaw:

 

We can talk about parent Knight lists with allied IG/Eldar/whatever on the Grey Knight forum all we like.

 

If your army list is 2 armies currently covered by the B&C as allies then you can discuss them wherever it is appropriate for that. But if your allies list contains armies we do not cover (i.e. Xenos and Imperial Guard) then your lists and how best to use your non power armor allies will be restricted to the Tactica and Army List forums.

 

:D

 

Edit: We're actually unable to discuss GK as allies to IG/Xenos anywhere on the B&C. There is no sub forum that that is allowed. ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

But Marines are redundant as allies...sigh

 

Should I request the thread to be moved, or will it just get picked up anyway?

[Gentlemanloser]

Leave it and see if anything happens? :jaw:

[Stormshadow]

The ultimate abuse of two FO’s IMHO is Mordrak with ghosts + Draigo +2x Librarinan with summoning and warp rift.

 

Hit the enemy with 2x warp rift turn one, shrug of wounds with Draigo and the gosts, and summon two units turn two.

[number6]

Sorry. I have to lock this thread. You can talk about non-B&C approved army allies ONLY in the context of an actual army list, and nowhere else. Them's the breaks.