Tamwulf Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Thanks to the fantastic rules on Power Weapons: If a model's wargear says it has a power weapon which has no further special rules, look at the model to tell which type of power weapon it has..." Pg. 61 And then under Unusual Power Weapons we have: Many models have unusual power weapons that have one or more unique rules. If a power weapon has it's own unique close combat rules, treat is an an AP3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in its entry. pg. 61 This means to me that if a model has a power weapon with a rule listed from the Special Rules section on pgs. 32-43, it's not unique. Therefor, you look at the model and that's the weapon it has. If it has some unique rules not listed on pgs. 32-43, then it falls under the Unusual Power Weapon entry above. Here is a compilation of who has what kind of Power Weapon: Captain Tycho (both versions)- Dead Man's Hand: NOT a Power Weapon, but a melee weapon with all kinds of special rules. Chaplains/Reclusiarch- Crozius Arcanum: Power Maul Lemartes- The Blood Crozius: Under the BA FAQ, it's a Master-Crafted Power Maul Astorath the Grim: The Executioner's Axe- Power Weapon, two handed - both special rules- but it strikes at S6- a unique rule. This is a Unusual Power Weapon Librarians: Force Weapon (Pg 60) Mephiston: Force Weapon Brother Corbulo- Heaven's Teeth: Melee weapon with special rules Sanguinary Guard- Glave Encarmine: Power Weapon with special rules. See below about the axe that's included with the Sanguinary Guard box set. The Sanguinor- Glave Encarmine: Power Weapon with special rules Commander Dante- The Axe Mortalis: Power Axe with special rule (booo!) Gaberiel Seth- Blood Reaver: Melee weapon with special rules Other weapons: Blood Fists- Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon Blood Talons- Lightning Claws with a Unique Rule! Not that it changes much. They still rock. I really wish GW would have just listed this in the FAQ like I did above. Did I miss any, and am I off base anywhere? Couple things that kinda suck: If your like me, you used the axe bit in the Sanguinary Guard box set... which under the provisions above means it's a Power Axe. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if I'm going to have a weapon strike at Initiative 1, I want a Power Fist. Know what I mean? Hope this clears up any confusion! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 After further review, this topic is useful, but any debate over Dante's Axe or the Sanguinary Guard glaives is to be kept in the Offiicail rules thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Thanks James, and I can see where some people are coming from. I can see a rules issue, and an endless debate. I don't want my game of 40K to devolve into a rules argument over one model and whether or not it's a power axe or unusual power weapon. So in a way, my above post is how I'm going to play those models until I see an FAQ or someone persuades me otherwise. It's consistent, and (hopefully) logical. If my opponent argues otherwise, and he's really pushing it, then I'll suggest a d6 roll. If he says no, then he's probably not the kind of person I want to play a game with anyways. Remember! It's a game about little toy soldiers on a make believe battlefield. We play games to have fun! It's not worth arguing about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I'm not sure if Dead Man's Hand is a "weapon" exactly, but yes, thanks for the summary! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I'm not sure if Dead Man's Hand is a "weapon" exactly, but yes, thanks for the summary! This is correct, Dead Man's Hand is not a weapon, just a set of rules (that are awesome!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 If I recall the rulebook correctly, giving a Force Axe to a Librarian furioso is great as its S7, and still goes at initiative. Sure he has the DCCW already, but the S7 (8 on the charge if in priest range) with the instant death power is cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 And conveniently, a force axe is just what the kit comes with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 And conveniently, a force axe is just what the kit comes with. Not mine, it was homemade with a giant sword... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Well yes, conversions are a thing! I'm trying to figure out how to build my second one, right now. But I mean if you just build the Librarian Dreadnought right out of the kit, the way it looks on the box/website, it comes with a force axe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushman101 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 hmmm......my understanding is that Gave Encarmines of any shape were 'unusual' pow weapons. Meaning they were ap3 and struck at initiative. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 When it comes to the Glaives, does it really matter? They're either all counts-as swords, which seems to be the weapon of choice anyways, or the Sanguinary Guard gets new tactical options in weapon choices for no points cost. I view it as win-win. The only possible drawback to either side I see is you may have to rebuild a model or two, and the kit comes with so many useful bits I don't even see that as bad, either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 In the end, no rulebook is keeping me from saying "this is a sword" even if it's an axe. It's a different thing with special characters, though, but I'm not going to re-build my captain, two members of the Sanguinary Guard and other models in my army just to keep within the freakin' rules. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Well yes, conversions are a thing! I'm trying to figure out how to build my second one, right now. But I mean if you just build the Librarian Dreadnought right out of the kit, the way it looks on the box/website, it comes with a force axe. Before the issuance of the librarian dreadnought kit, a friend of mine modeled a venerable dreadnought with a large axe from WHFB. I think it was from a minotaur or ogre of some sort. Looks awesome. I was going to do the same with the sword from a daemon prince, but with the axe rules, I might look for something else, though I will do at least one arm that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonet40k Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 If I recall the rulebook correctly, giving a Force Axe to a Librarian furioso is great as its S7, and still goes at initiative. Sure he has the DCCW already, but the S7 (8 on the charge if in priest range) with the instant death power is cool. TBH, unless you're wanting to use the ID ability of the Force Axe on something like a Monstrous Creature, it's always worth using the S10 Blood Fist as opposed to the Str7 Force Axe... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 If I recall the rulebook correctly, giving a Force Axe to a Librarian furioso is great as its S7, and still goes at initiative. Sure he has the DCCW already, but the S7 (8 on the charge if in priest range) with the instant death power is cool. TBH, unless you're wanting to use the ID ability of the Force Axe on something like a Monstrous Creature, it's always worth using the S10 Blood Fist as opposed to the Str7 Force Axe... Yes, but the fist could be destroyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3113405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If I recall the rulebook correctly, giving a Force Axe to a Librarian furioso is great as its S7, and still goes at initiative. Sure he has the DCCW already, but the S7 (8 on the charge if in priest range) with the instant death power is cool. TBH, unless you're wanting to use the ID ability of the Force Axe on something like a Monstrous Creature, it's always worth using the S10 Blood Fist as opposed to the Str7 Force Axe... Yes, but the fist could be destroyed. How can the Axe not be destroyed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3115061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If I recall the rulebook correctly, giving a Force Axe to a Librarian furioso is great as its S7, and still goes at initiative. Sure he has the DCCW already, but the S7 (8 on the charge if in priest range) with the instant death power is cool. Edit. I didn't see this was about the furioso. my bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3115093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If I recall the rulebook correctly, giving a Force Axe to a Librarian furioso is great as its S7, and still goes at initiative. Sure he has the DCCW already, but the S7 (8 on the charge if in priest range) with the instant death power is cool. TBH, unless you're wanting to use the ID ability of the Force Axe on something like a Monstrous Creature, it's always worth using the S10 Blood Fist as opposed to the Str7 Force Axe... Yes, but the fist could be destroyed. How can the Axe not be destroyed? My point entirely was that the fist is likely the first weapon destroyed, so you might have to fight with the axe if the fist is gone and the axe remains. That is all. Consider the Force Axe the backup weapon to the fist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3115332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If I recall the rulebook correctly, giving a Force Axe to a Librarian furioso is great as its S7, and still goes at initiative. Sure he has the DCCW already, but the S7 (8 on the charge if in priest range) with the instant death power is cool. TBH, unless you're wanting to use the ID ability of the Force Axe on something like a Monstrous Creature, it's always worth using the S10 Blood Fist as opposed to the Str7 Force Axe... Yes, but the fist could be destroyed. How can the Axe not be destroyed? My point entirely was that the fist is likely the first weapon destroyed, so you might have to fight with the axe if the fist is gone and the axe remains. That is all. Consider the Force Axe the backup weapon to the fist. Now that weapon destroyed results are random, tey're both equally as likely. However, going at I, the force axe is superior to any other force weapon, hands down. And you can still ID those MC's with high T. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3115467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If I recall the rulebook correctly, giving a Force Axe to a Librarian furioso is great as its S7, and still goes at initiative. Sure he has the DCCW already, but the S7 (8 on the charge if in priest range) with the instant death power is cool. TBH, unless you're wanting to use the ID ability of the Force Axe on something like a Monstrous Creature, it's always worth using the S10 Blood Fist as opposed to the Str7 Force Axe... Yes, but the fist could be destroyed. How can the Axe not be destroyed? My point entirely was that the fist is likely the first weapon destroyed, so you might have to fight with the axe if the fist is gone and the axe remains. That is all. Consider the Force Axe the backup weapon to the fist. Now that weapon destroyed results are random, tey're both equally as likely. However, going at I, the force axe is superior to any other force weapon, hands down. And you can still ID those MC's with high T. You know, I completely forgot about the randomness for weapon destroyed. But yes, Force Axes (at least on a Furioso Libby) are the best force weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255881-melee-weapon-list/#findComment-3115542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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