UglyWretch Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I was trying out some of the new rules yesterday (playing on my own, how lame) and I started having problems with the Challenges. In one, my Destroyer Lord and squad of Warriors assaulted a squad of CSMs and challenged the Champion, now as I've read it, the Challenge is issued before any Initiative phase, so my Destroyer Lord Challenged the Champion and hit him with Hammer of Wrath- killed him! So, does my D.Lord then get the attack the squad as normal in his Initiative step? The second problem I had was my Overlord won his challenge (Terrasect Labyrinth) but my warriors lost the combat, so they then got Overrun? I'm not even sure if the other models fight eachother as normal in a Challenge. I'm very confused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 It works like this: there are two subphases to the Assault Phase: the charge subphase and the fight subphase. Hammer of Wrath resolves in the Charge subphase. The Challenge is issued in the Fight subphase (AFTER the HoW has happened). So, the Hammer hits the unit proper. A small clarification: you do not target a Challenge. You issue a Challenge and the defender chooses who (if anyone) accepts it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyWretch Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Ok, but that doesn't answer any of my questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 actually he did.. The Challenge is issued in the Fight subphase (AFTER the HoW has happened). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 As for the rest... Hammer of Wrath happens before the Challenge can be issued, so if it does manage to kill the only Character model in the enemy unit, there's nobody to accept your Challenge. Read p64, "Combatant Slain" to see why he can't attack the unit if he kills somebody in a challege this turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Charge. Hammer of Wrath hits the squad. Issue Challenge. Accept or Reject Challenge. Everyone strikes at initiative (but the characters in the challenge can only hit and be hit by each other). Resolution (count wounds caused in and out of the challenge equally). Fall Back/Overrun, if applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyWretch Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Charge.Hammer of Wrath hits the squad. Issue Challenge. Accept or Reject Challenge. Everyone strikes at initiative (but the characters in the challenge can only hit and be hit by each other). Resolution (count wounds caused in and out of the challenge equally). Fall Back/Overrun, if applicable. Right. Thank you. Just so I now know. Although I'd like to run "Terrasect Labyrinth" past your guys quickly, it's in lieu of cc attacks that turn, once per game, a model in base contact must roll equal or less than its remaining wounds, or be removed with no saves allowed. My Overlord with Warscythe (Init 2) went before the CSM Champion (who issued the challenge), who had a Powerfist. Because of the Challenge, they're classed as the only models in base contact with eachother, so this power deffinatley hits the Champion. Rolls, gets a 2+, removed. Nice. I also tried Mindshackle Scarabs, but wasn't sure if the "attacks on they're own unit" would be against the squad, or forced to be against himself. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Incorrect on all counts...did anyone actually read the BRB? ;) HoW is resolved at I10 during the Fight subphase. (BRB p.37) Characters stay in a challenge until the end of that phase...they can't HoW their opponent and then go punch the squad at normal I. (BRB p.64) Seriously, this one is straight out of the book and requires a mention of the first line in my sig :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 HoW is resolved at I10 during the Fight subphase. (BRB p.37) This is what I get for taking someone's word on something. I had looked up everything else, but not HoW. I should've known better. Thanks for the correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I looked there and read it as Charge Subphase on that page; my bad. As you were. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyWretch Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Incorrect on all counts...did anyone actually read the BRB? :) HoW is resolved at I10 during the Fight subphase. (BRB p.37) Characters stay in a challenge until the end of that phase...they can't HoW their opponent and then go punch the squad at normal I. (BRB p.64) Seriously, this one is straight out of the book and requires a mention of the first line in my sig :tu: Yeah, that's how I originally read it before I was "corrected". So can we start again and I'll ask if anyone knows how it'd work if after the Challenge had been issued and accepted, HoW kills the Challengee, does the surviving Challenger then get to attack the unit at his normal Initiative sub-phase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Characters stay in a challenge until the end of that phase...they can't HoW their opponent and then go punch the squad at normal I. (BRB p.64) This should answer your question :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyWretch Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Characters stay in a challenge until the end of that phase...they can't HoW their opponent and then go punch the squad at normal I. (BRB p.64) This should answer your question :) But the opposing Character was killing in the Initiative 10 HoW phase, not his normal I2 combat phase. That's what I'm asking. As the opponent was already dead for his Initiative phase, should he not act as normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Characters stay in a challenge until the end of that phase...they can't HoW their opponent and then go punch the squad at normal I. (BRB p.64) This should answer your question :) But the opposing Character was killing in the Initiative 10 HoW phase, not his normal I2 combat phase. That's what I'm asking. As the opponent was already dead for his Initiative phase, should he not act as normal? The rules say "No." Doesn't matter if he's got an I10 HoW or an I10 Insta-gib on 2+ rule, when his own, lower, initiative comes up, he's still for all intents and purposes in the challenge, and so cannot be attacked, nor attack himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyWretch Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Strikes me as strange though. Does that mean the Character after winning the Challenge just sits back and watches for the rest of combay until one unit wins or dies? When does he join back in? If it's his next initiative phase after the Challengee is dead, then I'd be right. But I assume there's some strange interpretation of the rules to stop me. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bystrom Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Read pg. 64, under Combatant Slain. It lasts till the end of the phase (in this case, the assault phase). So in the next combat, everything's back to normal again. Just not after a certain initiative step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Quick question: where, in the rules for Challenges, does it say the characters in a challenge cannot attack other enemies? It says they can't be attacked by other enemies, but I don't see a limitation on who they can attack. I'm 100% certain it's an oversight, but nonetheless, I can't find it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Quick question: where, in the rules for Challenges, does it say the characters in a challenge cannot attack other enemies? It says they can't be attacked by other enemies, but I don't see a limitation on who they can attack. I'm 100% certain it's an oversight, but nonetheless, I can't find it anywhere. Fighting a challenge: "For the duration of the challenge, these two models are considered to be in base contact only with each other." While this might not fully answer the question, unless I missed something that effectively takes an IC out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I think you're thinking of the old rules for ICs. They don't fight as separate units in CC any more. Now, they fight just like any other members of the unit they have joined. And yeah, I had seen the base-to-base wording. That certainly means that you have to hit the other character in the challenge first, as per allocation rules. But then, after the enemy character dies, nothing stops extra wounds from carrying over to the rest of the squad. At least, nothing I have been able to find so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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