ImperialFist_36 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Is it just me or are Terminators with Storm Shield monstrously over powered for their pts cost??? Had two games against army using them with Vulcan Hestan who gets 2+ then 3+ invun. The unit delivered by land raider us all but unstoppable, and the Terminators are only 200 pts. My entire army practically firing at them and not single casualty over 5 turns!!! The fact they can charge same distance as normal troops seems of to me as well. They are supposed to be in bulky and slow terminator armour or at least so would all the 40k novels suggest. Given that in new addition they are supposed to have made game move cinematic seems GW have missed trick here. Ok make them powerful but storm shields defo shouldn't be free upgrade you should really have to pay for that 3+ invun save. They should also be slow on the charge then regular troops. Maybe will be sorted in new codex. Think I'll be seeing more marine armies with this combo tho. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Barachiel Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 There will certainly be armies that are made of Thunderhammer/Stormshield-Deathwing Squads with Cyclone Missile launchers only. IMO in the new Edition those will be almost unstopable, at least if they can reach the enemy soon enough. But about Stormshields in General. They are one of the most amazing tools available for Space Marines. If you equip Terminators with those mighty shields they need no cover, need no fear for any heavy weapon, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Had two games against army using them with Vulcan Hestan who gets 2+ then 3+ invun. You seem to be implying that each model was using more than one save per wound, which they can't do. If I'm incorrect, then that player must have been rolling hot to not fail 1:3 or 1:6 of their saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoreDraconis Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Sounds like someone got cheesed. Not uncommon when Vulkan is involved ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialFist_36 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Had two games against army using them with Vulcan Hestan who gets 2+ then 3+ invun. You seem to be implying that each model was using more than one save per wound, which they can't do. If I'm incorrect, then that player must have been rolling hot to not fail 1:3 or 1:6 of their saves. No he was only taken the one save, going to the 3+ invun after 2 lascannon hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialFist_36 Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Sounds like someone got cheesed. Not uncommon when Vulkan is involved ;) To be fair to my opponent he only uses the list for fun. ThinK I'd get a little annoyed if that was all he ever used tho. I play Imperial Fists so could always just field same unit just with Lysander... but where's the fun in that? Last game I ended up with just my captain facin off against his entire army for two whole turns... Dorn would have been proud ... No retreat.... Not one step back!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Is it just me or are Terminators with Storm Shield monstrously over powered for their pts cost??? I'm sorry, you're only just realising this now? ;) To be honest, they've been overpowered since C:SM came out. C:BA had to actually up their points cost because of how OP they were. And in this edition they're still nasty, and less things get through their armour save, and they still have a fantastic invulnerable save if they do. Oh, and they ignore pretty much every armour save out there while wounding most things a 2+. And as some have said, new charging rules may have made them more viable on foot, whereas before they were pretty much always taken in Land Raiders (which also got a bit harder as well). Expect this to continue until a new edition of the Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 They are super durable and hit super hard; honestly they're basically the same as 5th...technically more durable in melee than before...but if you're in melee with them you are probably dead anyway. Just as before, they utterly lack range and they require a Land Raider to get anywhere. Ground their LR as soon as you can and pump them full of bolter shells: every six will kill a terminator. Now you can kite them as your tacticals can pop off single shots up to 24" on the move. Erode them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoreDraconis Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 great point thade. With move and shoot range increasing on standard issue weps across all factions, they've actually taken a bit of a hit if you can keep em at arms length. Being able to measure range means you can make sure you stay safe, and unpredictable charge distance could have them fail and make them sitting ducks for a whole turn, which is terrible for them. a tac squad rapidfiring into them will hurt, and a failed charge means two rounds of overwatch. Def changes things up for these guys...life's not nearly as clear cut as a SS termie this edition. Of course, this all depends on popping that tank, so you better be damn sure you do! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I deal with TH/SS terminators in one of two ways (depending on the army I'm using). Iron Hands: Disable the LR ride with whatever Lascannon/Multi-melta is available, pop Null Zone, pump full of energy weapon fire, watch them fly away. Works pretty well, especially now that SMs can't stop psychic powers very well anymore. Ghost Knights: Disable the LR with the Vindicare if available or Psycannon fire if not, then pump em full of lead. They don't have fortune, so they go down sooner then later. I have to say that the Iron Hands method is much better at taking them on then the Ghost Knights method. Then again, my Ghost Knights handle other threats much better then my Iron Hands, so apples to oranges, I suppose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3113855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Oddly, Hammernators are most effective against other Marine armies who lack the high volumes of attacks or shots to break those 2+/3++ saves open. The answer for other armies is always "drown them in wounds." Guard can FRFSRF them with lasguns, Nids can bury them in Gaunts, Orks pile Boyz into them, Dark Eldar have Wyches, and Eldar have Bladestorming Dire Avengers. Marines are the army type that really lacks for volume of damage to break down full units of Hammernators. We just can't produce enough wounds in one go to get past those saves reliably. For the Hammernator fans, 6th Edition brings some changes that make them less valuable. All units can regroup now, regardless of enemy proximity. Regroup rolls aren't even affected until you have <25% of your starting strength. This means you're not escorting anything off the board anymore. Units you beat in combat can regroup and light you up with shooting and eventually pile back in for more melee. The lack of Fearless wounds makes taking down those hordes harder. Orks and Guants can tie you up indefinitely. Overwatch is unreliable, but a torrent of small arms fire into your Hammernators before you can charge can knock off one of your expensive models. Nothing hurts worse than losing a 40 point monstrosity to a 6-point lasgun that managed to roll a couple 6s. B) Yes, Hammernators are tough, but the ways to kill them that folks used in 5th just got better, and the Hammernators stayed the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3116488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Marines are the army type that really lacks for volume of damage to break down full units of Hammernators. We just can't produce enough wounds in one go to get past those saves reliably. Null Zone and plasma works fairly well ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3116576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 OP unit is OP. Shoot the Choppy stuff, Chop the shooty stuff, it's like marine 101. I, as a chaos marine player, have it a little easier since in a thousand points I can get a decent amount of plasma on the field with two per squad and three oblit plasma cannons and if I have the points more oblits heh, this is better with death guard since I still get a 5+ save hehe so can mob them with wounds. But even vanillas can do it with plasma gun/cannon tacs, just not so effectively and a little lick with a lascannon pred or multimelta attack bikes or land speeders, all are reliable just gotta know that your gonna be focusing a lot of fire on the squad to bring it down, but can quiet easily be done round turn 2 so they'll be well within rapid fire for two squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3116595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 A word of warning though folks; Landraiders can move 18" in a single turn, followed by another 6" before the unit disembarks 6" and then charge another 2D6" (average 7"). That's an average of 37" and a minimum of 32" in two turns! If you build your anti-Terminator Assault unit with the intention of shooting them as they slowly make their way across the table you could be in for a surprise! What needs to be done is plan for what you will do if you are on the receiving end of a charge; how are you going to slow down the attackers so you can shoot them in the following turn, what are you going to do to avoid them as they try and prise open your lines, or just how are you going to cope with them and their mates all at once? We need to plan for the worst and hope for the best. ;) Don't be afraid to move a Combat squad in front of the Terminator squad to invite a charge, so you can re-evaluate your chances. Plink away with weight of fire shots you can spare but don't panic and feel you absolutely have to wipe out the Assault Terminators before they hit you! You can afford to lose some units and still win. Mobility is big this edition. People are afraid of transports and the like, but to me that is just as good as just lining up and saying "assault me". They try and smash up the middle so you move to either side away from them. Sacrificial units deliberately left behind can work to confuse an opponent's decision making. See 2 now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3116872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 You can afford to lose some units and still win. Among the other ingenious stuff Capt. Idaho just said here, this one really bears repeating. Models die in this edition. They die a whole lot. Be ready for it. <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3117054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Arguably even, sacrificing a squad just to hold them up a turn or so isn't a bad trade. The game isn't always about who gibbed the most guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255912-terminators-with-storm-shields/#findComment-3117109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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