Zhukov Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Well I'm still fiddling around with stuff and slowly come to the enivitable conclusion that I can do things cheaper and therefore just better with Vanilla Marines... Which would be sad. (I doubt if it's actually worth spending the points on Priests for a Mech list, Vanilla Preds are cheaper and almost as effective, without FnP bikes are the same and Vanilla Tacs seem superior troops. On top of that I rather have Stormtalons than Stormravens due to the FOC slot they are in and the points difference) Oh well, then I guess I gotta take out my FW BA doors if it stays this way :/ Shame of the money spend on it, but alas. Not sure yet though, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how Mech BA will be superior to Mech Vanilla in any way now. And yes, I still think Mech is boss in 6th. Other stuff got more viable, sure, but Mech is still strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Why do you believe that mech is still strong I missed that train somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Why do you believe that mech is still strong I missed that train somewhere? You didn't miss a train, you left the old one and stepped on a new one I'm afraid :whistling: To be honest, the question is why Mech would not be strong anymore. Yes, they aren't as durable anymore in the long run, oh noes. You can't assault from it anymore either, but that just changes how you use them. Same for the fact that they can't contest/score from inside anymore. (good lists de-meched you anyways) The balance of vehicles is just better, they're not nearly indestructable for some armies anymore. Be my guest though, stop taking a lot of anti-tank and get beaten up by Mech lists B) It's what always happens when stuff changes: People shout extreme statements: They goes from Mech is overpowered to Mech is poor now. The truth is often somewhere in the middle. My predictment is that other things just got more viable, making for an overall better balance between Mech and non-Mech (or hybrid), in which case GW would have done a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Not sure yet though, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how Mech BA will be superior to Mech Vanilla in any way now. Mephiston and DC. Great, stand alone units that you won't find an equivalent to in the vanilla dex. You could take both of those as allies though, so I guess it really doesn't matter. More importantly, wolves do mech better, as they did in 5th. So why not go with those while you're at it? I'm struggling a bit right now to build a strong list I actually enjoy playing. DC heavy looks promising, as do terminators and bikers. But both DA and C:SM do the last two better than we can. :lol: I think BA really took a hit in this ed. Maybe someone in the design team lost a few times too many against the boy in red? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Zhukov, you might be right about mech being better Vanilla. Our advantages are basically fast, which is helpful but is it worth the points anymore? I'm not sure on that for vehicles other than Vindicators (which did not seem common in competitive Mech anyway) And Baals are our other advantage. I'd really miss the Baals if I did mech Vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 And yes, I still think Mech is boss in 6th. Other stuff got more viable, sure, but Mech is still strong. Im with you on this in theory- will be nice to see how it pans out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 And Baals are our other advantage. I never liked Baals that much (although I own 2) and I'm afraid that now MM Attack Bikes and double MM Speeders are your best bet for melta, I don't see how they'd have a place in a BA list. Except for the fact that the TL-AC is decent AA. If only we had 4 Fast Attack slots ^^ More importantly, wolves do mech better, as they did in 5th. So why not go with those while you're at it? Not sure they do it still better. Expensive razors are less attractive, while combat squadding is now pretty darn strong, which brings me to this article: http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2012/07/new-rh...ba-and-sm-only/ Believe it or not, but I was dabbling with this idea too. It's interesting really. For the people who don't wanna read that stuff, it comes down to this unit: 10 Assault Marines; 2x plasma (or 2x melta), 2x plasma pistol, meltabomb, Rhino transport. 260 or 270 points. Now this is expensive, but it is a lot stronger compared to 5th edition because of a couple of things: -Combatsquads riding both in a rhino. -2 shots from the sergeants with 12" range, instead of the single 6" infernus pistol you took otherwise. (I assume nobody took a single plasma pistol in 5th at least) -krak nades and meltabombs got better. I'm currently trying to base a list around it. The main problem I'm having is getting FnP, which I think you'd want for a marine heavy list where you will disembark. Priests can't ride along in rhinos, but honor guard are costly. Maybe a base setup along these lines: Libby 100 MM Attack Bike 50 MM Attack Bike 50 2x Priest; combimelta 120 5 ASM; melta, MB, Rhino 130 5 ASM; melta, MB, Rhino 130 10 ASM; 4x plasma, MB, Rhino 270 10 ASM; 4x plasma, MB, Rhino 270 1120 points. You can add whatever you feel you need to add basicly. You'll want ideally long range anti-tank and preferably Anti-Air too. Storm Ravens are an option, so are Dreads with TL-AC's and so are AC/LC Preds. Or add an allied department. This could be a result: Mephston 250 MM Attack Bike 50 MM Attack Bike 50 2x Priest; combimelta + MB 130 5 ASM; melta, MB, Rhino 130 5 ASM; melta, MB, Rhino 130 10 ASM; 4x plasma, MB, Rhino 270 10 ASM; 4x plasma, MB, Rhino 270 LC/AC Pred 135 LC/AC Pred 135 Stormraven 200 Total: 1750 (Not sure about Mephy, take him out and include a Baal maybe?) Now does Vanilla do this better? Undecided. They get heavy weapons, but less specials. More man, but no FnP. I feel like we have to use Stormravens, its one of the potential strong things which sets us apart from other books too. Food for thought maybe :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Yeah, I think Rhinos are bound to overshadow Razors. The combat squad thing made them a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'll just keep posting my thoughts for now in here as some people might find it interesting. I suddenly noticed the biggest problem I'm having with BA at the moment: Dreads, Preds and Stormravens are all in the same slot. It's crazy basicly. What this in effect means: -Dreads with 2x TL-AC are decent Anti-air and good anti-transport. -Preds are good Anti-tank, crap at Anti-air. -Stormravens are good Anti-air and Anti-tank. Now the conclusion looks simple: Seems like we are forced to use Stormravens. Fliers are here to stay in 6th I'm afraid. Every army getting released will get them and I don't see GW handing out Anti-Air units all of the sudden, as that will cost them potential Flier sales. I didn't want to admit it at first, but I think you háve to be able to counter fliers if you wanna perform consistenly on tournaments. Only other option seems putting TL-Assault cannons into your list... So yeah... Libby 100 MM Attack Bike 50 MM Attack Bike 50 MM Attack Bike 50 2x Priest; combimelta 120 5 ASM; melta, MB, Rhino 130 5 ASM; melta, MB, Rhino 130 10 ASM; 2x melta, 2x plasma, MB, Rhino 260 10 ASM; 2x melta, 2x plasma, MB, Rhino 260 Stormraven 200 Stormraven 200 Stormraven 200 Total: 1750 Or: Libby 100 MM Attack Bike 50 Baal Pred 115 Baal Pred 115 2x Priest; combimelta 120 5 ASM; melta, MB, Rhino 130 5 ASM; melta, MB, Rhino 130 10 ASM; 2x melta, 2x plasma, MB, Rhino 260 10 ASM; 2x melta, 2x plasma, MB, Rhino 260 AC/LC Pred 135 AC/LC Pred 135 Stormraven 200 Total: 1750 :( Please tell me I'm wrong ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 hmm, not enough experience to say you are wrong yet. I expect Aegis defense lines will be popular to get the Quad gun for anti air Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandrinus Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 What about trying this to follow your RAS squads for the FNP support droping your two Sang Priest and lone MM Bike in your second list and maybe mergind the 2 5man RAS squad in a third of your 10 ASM; 2x melta, 2x plasma(Pistols?), MB, Rhino 260 squads or even a decent DC squad for the raven or in rhino/HF razorback or in jumpacks behind the rhino/pred/baals wall: SangPriest Bike Plasma Pistol or Power Axe 100 Bike Squadron + Attack Bike MM + 2 Meltas + MB 165 or If you gonna Plasma Heavy Squad SangPriest Bike Plasma Pistol or Power Axe 100 Bike Squadron + Attack Bike HB + 2 Plasmas + MB + PlasmaPistol 180 This is following your line of list that its really convincing me the way BA can act now with the 6th ed. son thanks :) Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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