Justcar Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hi All, I just had an (very rough) idea for a chapter and wanted to know what the general response was. Imagine a chapter of religious zealots that are essentially a cross between the black templars and the salamanders: 1. Worship the emperor (as a god, though i'll work out the theology later) 2. Infantry based tactics that emphasize flame and heat based weapons 3. Have a great many suits of artificer armor and the marines upkeep and improve their armor as a devotion to the emperor. 4. Dorn's geneseed Maybe: 1. Have a close relationship with the ordo hereticus 2. Founded during the age of apostasy to stamp out pockets of heresy Any criticism is welcome (as always). P.S. Can anyone come up with a name? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord-Rakszan Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 "The Royal Guard" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3113805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Royal is for Kings. Imperial is for Emperors. And we have an Imperial Guard already. This sounds a lot like the Salamanders, but I'd go with something like the Fire Templars (probably done, but if that doesn't bother you, it'd work), Flaming Fists, Flaming Swords, or Pyre Knights/Pyre Lords. If you want to get a bit more unusual: Immolators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3113846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord-Rakszan Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Royal is for Kings. Imperial is for Emperors. And we have an Imperial Guard already. This sounds a lot like the Salamanders, but I'd go with something like the Fire Templars (probably done, but if that doesn't bother you, it'd work), Flaming Fists, Flaming Swords, or Pyre Knights/Pyre Lords. If you want to get a bit more unusual: Immolators. Id listen to him. He sounds like he knows his stuff. My ideas were based on whatever popped into my head at the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3113851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Founded during the age of apostasy to stamp out pockets of heresy Other then this part, I see no problem with your idea. The problem with this part is how a Chapter is founded. Since Foundings are ordered by the High Lords of Terra .... and since the Age of Apostasy was actually started by the High Lords (while separated by warp from the rest of the Imperium), them creating a Founding to counter themselves seems unlikely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadieau Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 How about Emperor's Crucible or Crucible of God? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaptermasterDemon7 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I agree with Ecritter. Since the High Lords of Terra created the Age of Apostasy, why would they make a founding chapter during something they created? Everything else you have is good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Heretics are never heretics from their own perspective. His reasoning is fine. With the difficulty that there don't seem to have BEEN any foundings in the Age of Apostasy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantonWC Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 1. Worship the emperor (as a god, though i'll work out the theology later)2. Infantry based tactics that emphasize flame and heat based weapons 3. Have a great many suits of artificer armor and the marines upkeep and improve their armor as a devotion to the emperor. 4. Dorn's geneseed Sounds like Salamanders with... Dorn's gene-seed. Yeah. 1. Have a close relationship with the ordo hereticus2. Founded during the age of apostasy to stamp out pockets of heresy Agreed with Octavulg. The 21st Founding already happened at the turn of the milennium. There was a lot of chaos at this time and I haven't seen any lore that indicates that the 22nd Founding also happened around this time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 In fact, the three foundings in that period all have fairly concrete dates - the 21st at the very first years of M36, the 22nd in the middle of M37, and the 23rd right at the turn of the millenium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantonWC Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hey Octavulg. I'm kind of rusty on my lore. Do you remember what source those dates came from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Hello again, Thank you for the swift replies. On the matter of their founding date: I was thinking that they could have been founded right *after* the age of apostasy, as it would give a reason or historical significance to their zealous nature. However, if the foundlings don't back that up (the DIY timeline didn't mention the 22nd - 25th foundings if I remember correctly) a chapter doesn't have to have an excuse to bash some heretic heads. Is there a reasonable founding that I could make them a part of? On the matter of their closeness to the salamanders: There are a few distinctions which may have been omitted or overlooked. 1. These marines worship the emperor as a god (I do not think that the salamanders do) 2. These marines don't have the same humanist impulses/ empathy of the salamanders 3. They are very zealous Maybe: 1. Believe that the cleansing flame is the only thing that can purify a heretics soul. Also: Maybe their planet could have been conquered by the word bearers originally and by the time that anyone would have noticed their emperor worship, everyone else was worshiping the emperor too. This would make their planet and culture's veneration of the emperor both explainable and ironic. It may even be a dark secret that they don't want others to find out. P.S. I like the name "the immolators" and will take it into consideration. If anyone else has any ideas, criticisms ,or suggestions, I would love to hear them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Canton The date for the 21st founding may be open to some debate (foundings in M36 get...messy). But the 22nd and 23rd established as being later than M36. See here for details. Justcar I was thinking that they could have been founded right *after* the age of apostasy, as it would give a reason or historical significance to their zealous nature. However, if the foundlings don't back that up (the DIY timeline didn't mention the 22nd - 25th foundings if I remember correctly) a chapter doesn't have to have an excuse to bash some heretic heads. Right after would seem the time least likely to result in a devout chapter, since the Ecclesiarchy got a bit of a smacking down. I'd go shortly before M36. Unfortunately, nobody knows what that is any more, since the dates are a massive, convoluted mess. I'd pick somewhere in mid-M35 (when the Ecclesiarchy would have been at its most powerful) and just gloss over what founding that was, exactly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3114774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Maybe:1. Believe that the cleansing flame is the only thing that can purify a heretics soul. That sounds oddly familiar ... see Sons of Pyron in my sig ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3115342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justcar Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Sorry everyone for the long wait. I had a great deal of work spring up... Canton:The date for the 21st founding may be open to some debate (foundings in M36 get...messy). But the 22nd and 23rd established as being later than M36. See here for details. Justcar:I was thinking that they could have been founded right *after* the age of apostasy, as it would give a reason or historical significance to their zealous nature. However, if the foundlings don't back that up (the DIY timeline didn't mention the 22nd - 25th foundings if I remember correctly) a chapter doesn't have to have an excuse to bash some heretic heads. Right after would seem the time least likely to result in a devout chapter, since the Ecclesiarchy got a bit of a smacking down. I'd go shortly before M36. Unfortunately, nobody knows what that is any more, since the dates are a massive, convoluted mess. I'd pick somewhere in mid-M35 (when the Ecclesiarchy would have been at its most powerful) and just gloss over what founding that was, exactly. Wouldn't it be likely that the ecclesiarcy's defeat would spawn a religious movement in response? In a similar way to how that the excesses of the catholic church spawned the protestant reformation? This chapter wouldn't be devoted to the ecclesiarch. They would be loyal *only* to the Emperor, in a devout, religious manner. Would that make sense if they were founded just after the reign of blood? Maybe:1. Believe that the cleansing flame is the only thing that can purify a heretics soul. That sounds oddly familiar ... see Sons of Pyron in my sig :P Whoops ;) ^_^ I think it may have been an example of cryptomnesia. Regardless, would it be unreasonable for several chapters to have a belief like this on some basic level? It seems like it would be a fairly common belief. However, if you object I will change it. :D By the way, great job on your Sons of Pyron entry! Thank you all for the support! I always look forward to new ideas and criticisms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3127967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Wouldn't it be likely that the ecclesiarcy's defeat would spawn a religious movement in response? In a similar way to how that the excesses of the catholic church spawned the protestant reformation? This chapter wouldn't be devoted to the ecclesiarch. They would be loyal *only* to the Emperor, in a devout, religious manner. Would that make sense if they were founded just after the reign of blood? Except Marine chapters normally don't believe the Emperor is a god at all. That's an Ecclesiarchal belief. So having that at the point immediately after the Ecclesiarchy has been dramatically reduced in its influence is...weird. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3127973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalos Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Wouldn't it be likely that the ecclesiarcy's defeat would spawn a religious movement in response? In a similar way to how that the excesses of the catholic church spawned the protestant reformation? This chapter wouldn't be devoted to the ecclesiarch. They would be loyal *only* to the Emperor, in a devout, religious manner. Would that make sense if they were founded just after the reign of blood? Except Marine chapters normally don't believe the Emperor is a god at all. That's an Ecclesiarchal belief. So having that at the point immediately after the Ecclesiarchy has been dramatically reduced in its influence is...weird. There are the Word Bearers, but the big E wasn't to keen on the whole God thing so they went all traitor on him. The zealousness of the Word Bearers was the cause of their fall to Chaos so if you're going to make an ultra-zealous chapter, they would almost be inherently traitorous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3146473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysteriousmaskedmystery Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 if you read through the new badab books there are several canon chapters in those two books alone that believe in the divinity of the emperor. i think they are going towards more of a grey area for this and i would guess it will wind up being newer chapters who are more likely to see the emperor this way. but believing in the god-emperor does not make your chapter a bunch of traitors, the word bearers made the mistake of doing it while he was still alive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255947-need-input/#findComment-3147370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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