Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Check the OR thread. ;) With the new priority for modifiers in the BRB, Codex modifiers take precedence over BRB ones. Oh... Quickening with NDH. ;) Back on topic, Autarch with Banshee Mask, Jetbike and Power Axe. Too much? ;) Add in Enchance as well! It's the order they take place what's important. You gain I10 when you charge, then you have to use an unwielding weapon tha brings you to I1. I may agree with the "nerf thing" but not with the I10 unwielding weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Actually the precedence for two modifiers conflicting (say the I 10 / I 1 modifiers) is to roll of each fight sub phase to see which wins, it's in the FAQs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Actually the precedence for two modifiers conflicting (say the I 10 / I 1 modifiers) is to roll of each fight sub phase to see which wins, it's in the FAQs. The main problem is: we are not sure they are conflicting. The I10 took place as they charge (then "before") the I1 when they attack (then "after"). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 haha, forgive my forwardness, but what kind of a jerk must one be to make their opponent roll off every turn to see if they're confronting I10 NDH weapons this round? ;) If they meant for I10 to be allowed for Unwieldy weapons, they would've said so as that's a rather catastrophic change. I recommend not trying to pull this on your opponent without a very clear FAQ to back you up; it will not make you many friends. Quicksilver didn't work on NDHs before; there is less than no reason to believe that it would now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I don't see how they're not conflicting. Unwieldy reduces your initiative characteristic to 1, banshee masks make you initiative 10 for the first assault phase. As soon as you declare an assault with your banshees they conflict as you have two modifiers saying different things, so before you start the Fight Sub-phase you must roll to see which modifier takes precedence which happens before the I10 step. It's silly and needs to be FAQ'd properly (to Unwieldy cannot be over-ridden by anything) but there is a existing precedence from the 6th ed. FAQs. TBH if anyone tried to tell me that their power axe banshees or NDH Termies were striking at I10 because of Masks/Quicksilver, I'd be tempted to slap them upside the head...or whatever the Kids say these days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Unwieldy makes you go last: solution, don't take axes on your Banshees. For real, their entire power is that they go first. If they dual wield like death cultists (do they?) you could go one sword/one axe and decide I1/AP2 or I10/AP3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 AP2. ;) On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence Quickening > Unwieldy :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 AP2. ;) On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence Quickening > Unwieldy :lol: Once more it's not a "conflict", it's an "order of operations". Quickening takes place during movement phase and you reach I10, then your unwielding brings you to I1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Quickening lets you attack at I10. Unwiledy doesn't. That's a conflict. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I believe the point Cmdr Shepard is making is that for the turn that Quickening is in effect, it is as if the I stat on your units profile is altered from it's current value to 10. It remains 10 for the turn (or for dodging things like Jaws of the World Wolf). However, you enter combat with an unwieldy weapon you strike at I1, even though the I stat in your profile says 10. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Which is still a conflict of rules. :lol: There's no Codex rule about attakcing at I4 for GK, that's a BRB rule. So unwieldy is fine there. Base stat, modified by a set value. But modifying your base I4 to a set value of 10 is a Codex rule. Which trumps the BRB rule that would conflict with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I believe the point Cmdr Shepard is making is that for the turn that Quickening is in effect, it is as if the I stat on your units profile is altered from it's current value to 10. It remains 10 for the turn (or for dodging things like Jaws of the World Wolf). However, you enter combat with an unwieldy weapon you strike at I1, even though the I stat in your profile says 10. Exactly ;) Which is still a conflict of rules. :) There's no Codex rule about attakcing at I4 for GK, that's a BRB rule. So unwieldy is fine there. Base stat, modified by a set value. But modifying your base I4 to a set value of 10 is a Codex rule. Which trumps the BRB rule that would conflict with it. Once more it the "order of operations" that determine the defenitive value. Conflict takes place when two rule regulate the same "behaviour" or "event". These are two different events and there no conflict but it's clear it is useless to discuss further. If your opponents agree with you it's fine. Not fair but fine, if they agree. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlund Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Quickening never let you strike at I10 with a Power Fist in 5th Edition. It doesn't let you strike at I10 with a Power Axe in 6th Edition. Your I-STAT goes up to 10, but Unwieldy says you ignore your Stat for determining what Initiative you fight at and and fight at Initiative Step 1 instead. - Marty Lund Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3116953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Unfortunately, I can't really give a list because they change every time I encounter them. Forge World may be involved as well sometimes, so meh. It's not like I'm losing every fight I have with Eldar, I'm just saying that I'm having the most subjective trouble fighting against competent eldar then with other types of opponents. I was wondering if I was the only one who thought this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3117409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I hate facing the Eldar. I have since 4th Edition, and getting access to Transports hasn't really helped either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3117522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Ahhh, Forgeworld. I have to say I don't find fighting Eldar than fun even though I tend to win, I like the psyker element of Grey Knights and I want to use it, but the Forgeworld stuff really does give them a boost, warp hunters and hornets are both undercosted for the sheer destruction they can unleash. I can see those being a real bitch to handle in 6th with the much reduced chance to shake them, I found paladins useful against the warp hunters as because it only got instant Death on a 6 and they just killed it on their turn or you got cover. That can work now if you use the now-even-sillier wound allocation shenanigans but yeah, those things are just mean. however it will die quite nicely to glances from autocannons now I guess which it didn't do before (just delayed it and let it reposition most of the time). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255951-grey-knights-vs-eldar/page/2/#findComment-3117593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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