SM Bikers in 6th

[DarkGuard]

As ShinyRhino has pointed Geser, there are other topics only a page down about the very question you asked. Welcome to the forums, and I hope you enjoy your stay, but please do get into the habit of searching before posting a new thread, the chances are someone else has already posted something similar. :cuss

[Lord Scytha]

Never actually used bikes before but are seriously thinking about it what with 6th seemingly making them a very attractive choice.

 

However, there is one point about bike that no one have really talked about yet in this thread and that's flamers on bikes. And as the biker newbie I am it would be interesting to learn if flamers are wasted in bike squads or not.

 

You'd think that since bikes don't really want to be in CC the overwatch fire from flamers would be an attractive deterrent, plus they would help flush troops out of buildings and ruins.

 

At the same time an argument against meltas was that their short range made them dangerous to use for a standoffish unit like bikers and I guess the same would be true for flamers or?

 

But as I said I'm probably wrong...

[ShinyRhino]

Never actually used bikes before but are seriously thinking about it what with 6th seemingly making them a very attractive choice.

 

However, there is one point about bike that no one have really talked about yet in this thread and that's flamers on bikes. And as the biker newbie I am it would be interesting to learn if flamers are wasted in bike squads or not.

 

You'd think that since bikes don't really want to be in CC the overwatch fire from flamers would be an attractive deterrent, plus they would help flush troops out of buildings and ruins.

 

At the same time an argument against meltas was that their short range made them dangerous to use for a standoffish unit like bikers and I guess the same would be true for flamers or?

 

But as I said I'm probably wrong...

 

As much as I crow about not being a huge fan of meltaguns on bikers, I still run a squad in my army when I run bikes as troops.

I also run a squad with two flamers and a combiflamer on the sergeant, and it's a great unit. They have almost no anti-tank at all outside of grenade weapons, so they're very much restricted in their target selection. The nice thing is that if you're out of range for flamers, you can still fire twinned bolters on the way in.

The 12" move, coupled with the size of a flamer template allows you to nuke a LOT of enemy infantry models.

The trick in 6th is surviving the ride in. Because of the new wound allocation rules, the flamers either have to ride in the back or as the center of the formation. This will limit your ability to put templates on target somewhat, but with correct formation placement, it may not be a huge deal.

I've not yet had this squad assaulted by anything, so I can't speak from experience on the Overwatch ability. It is a nice bonus though. With "average dice" (a term many dislike), you'll get four auto-hits on Overwatch, plus any twinned bolter shots you manage to land.

IMO, you're better off taking the unit as an offensive force with a slight defensive capability than as a reactionary force with some offensive ability. I'm not sure if that makes sense, it does in my head. lol.

 

The flamer squad feels like it is the type of bike unit that would benefit from the "all in" build, where you buy the full 8-man squad with attached attack bike, and keep them together in non-objective games, or objective games where you have enough other combat-squaddable units to cover the bases. The huge unit puts out up to three flamers (if you haven't burned the combi yet), 12 twinned bolter shots, and a heavy weapon both during your Shooting phase and as Overwatch. It might just be enough of a deterent to some units to keep them from charging into you.

 

On more than one occasion,I've run a 6-man with the two flamers and a combi, and driven it around the flanks to drop on otherwise occupied enemies at the last moment. Three flamer templates bothers even MEQ units.

 

You might also take alook at your local crowd, and the armies they field. Around here, we have a huge spike in players that field multiple Flyers. As a result, we've had a spike on players who field an Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun. You have IG, Tau, GK Henchmen, and even Daemons sitting behind ADLs for 4+ cover. Attempting to charge into that is tough, but flamers will put the hurt on several of those camping units where your meltaguns or plasmaguns would not.

[rubix41]

I also run a squad with two flamers and a combiflamer on the sergeant, and it's a great unit. They have almost no anti-tank at all outside of grenade weapons, so they're very much restricted in their target selection. The nice thing is that if you're out of range for flamers, you can still fire twinned bolters on the way

 

I have been deterred by Flamers because the range is low AND for flushing people out of cover, bikers have a problem for not occupying and assaulting into the second floor of a building where everyone parks their units. However, it might be viable now. What do you guys think?

[ShinyRhino]

Flamers are absolutely useful for flushing softer units out of a ruin. You can place the template up to one level higher than you're at, so bikers can apply flamers to the second level of the ruin.

[rubix41]

Flamers are absolutely useful for flushing softer units out of a ruin. You can place the template up to one level higher than you're at, so bikers can apply flamers to the second level of the ruin.

 

Grr, I KNEW that was true but one opponent of mine (who's a bit of a rules lawyer) said that I can't do that since I can't target the level above but I told him I saw that in a picture inside the rulebook but couldn't find it ><

 

Technically, if flamers are more viable, adding more flamers is the only way forward. I see it a few ways:

 

Barebones Librarian + Bike + Avenger or Pyromancy: No invulnerable save makes him a target for AP3 in 5e but under 6e it's not so bad. The force weapon (sword or axe) in combat will be very useful. Upgrading to Epistolary is making the price tag high (over a ton and fifty in pts) but, besides the deny the witch, its a HQ slot for someone very vulnerable (unless in a command and getting FNP, I suppose) but, in 6e, I prefer rolling my Libby in TDA to enhance my Terminators.

 

For nearly the same amount of points, I can roll a:

 

Techmarine + Bike+ Servo Harness + Combi Flamer: Again no invulnerable save, sure you get a 2+ save but you only have one wound. Is it worth having all the eggs in one basket? The good thing though is add a power weapon (likely sword or maul) you hit first and then you deal another 2 x S8 Servo Arm attacks. But the price tag (in pts) is pretty much adding up to a squad again, maybe it's better to have:

 

4 x Bikers + flamer x 2 + AB HB + Combi flamer?

 

All have the plus sides but what does everyone think? Or is there something I've forgotten?

[ShinyRhino]

I ran a Techmarine on a bike briefly in 5th Edition. I ran him bare bones, no upgrades. Just his servo arm and the bike.

He was a HOUSE when attached to my Command Squad. He simply could not be stopped from shooting, and opponents often felt he wasn't worth the effort in melee, and instead focused on taking down my Captain in Artificer Armor.

I feel the Techmarine on a bike will be just as useful in 6th, with the changes to bikes. Not being ID'd by S8 is awesome for his 2+ armor save, since you can take FNP rolls against failed saves versus krak missiles and such. His character status unlocks Precision Shots for him, as well as a 2+ armor save for challenges. He real falling-down point is that he costs you an Elite slot, though in a biker army, that's not a slot you use a whole lot.

[rubix41]

I ran a Techmarine on a bike briefly in 5th Edition. I ran him bare bones, no upgrades. Just his servo arm and the bike.

He was a HOUSE when attached to my Command Squad. He simply could not be stopped from shooting, and opponents often felt he wasn't worth the effort in melee, and instead focused on taking down my Captain in Artificer Armor.

I feel the Techmarine on a bike will be just as useful in 6th, with the changes to bikes. Not being ID'd by S8 is awesome for his 2+ armor save, since you can take FNP rolls against failed saves versus krak missiles and such. His character status unlocks Precision Shots for him, as well as a 2+ armor save for challenges. He real falling-down point is that he costs you an Elite slot, though in a biker army, that's not a slot you use a whole lot.

 

I think if my calculations are right a bare bones Techmarine on a bike is roughly 2 Rhino's. Not economical in 5e but maybe in 6e hmmm...as a squad upgrade, it's not bad - the extra Servo Arm/2+ armour and precision shots are useful but I would go for the Plasma shots available (that's another Rhino in points though...)

[ShinyRhino]

I think if my calculations are right a bare bones Techmarine on a bike is roughly 2 Rhino's. Not economical in 5e but maybe in 6e hmmm...as a squad upgrade, it's not bad - the extra Servo Arm/2+ armour and precision shots are useful but I would go for the Plasma shots available (that's another Rhino in points though...)

 

Two and a half Rhinos, or thereabouts.

[Lord Scytha]

Two and a half Rhinos, or thereabouts.

 

Bit off topic but I just love the idea of Rhinos being the Big Mac Index of 40k. :tu:

[rubix41]

Now that the new collection is here...will there be high expectations for the Ravenwing when the DA codex is re-released?

[ShinyRhino]

Now that the new collection is here...will there be high expectations for the Ravenwing when the DA codex is re-released?

 

Honestly, no. I'm expecting Sammael to have some neat powers, but otherwise I feel the Ravenwing units will end up levelled out with Codex bikers. I'd expect the Speeder and Attack Bike attachment rules to be streamlined or removed altogether. The rumor threads I've read also have no mention of Ravenwing as Troops, which is either an omission or a huge change for the DAs (probably an omission, since it would invalidate entire collections of models).

[FabulousRex]

I think we just touched on 2 seperate ideas that mesh extremely well together: BikeTechs and Bike-Flamers. Since I lack TFCs, I had to turn to other sources for my anti-horde, and I found 2 setups that work extremely well that both have some flexibility:

 

4 Bikes w/2 Flamers, CombiFlamer, Meltabomb + HBAB

MotF w/Bike, Powermaul

 

Cheap troop squad to escort the Master on bike. The squad kicks out 4 flamers when needed, 3 normally, has 2 PF attacks and meltabombs for vehicles, and a challenge chump to shield the MOTF. Surprisingly strong for a small squad; lacks bodies, but the AB is ablative and the MOTF has a 2+ with LOS to help out. Another option is:

 

BikeCmndSqd- 3 Flamers, Champ w/Maul, 2 PFs

MotF W/Bike, Powermaul

 

Command variant of above, has plusses and minuses, but ultimately isn't scoring. Pretty much don't use BCS anymore because of that. Cheap for a typical BCS.

 

8 Bikers w/Flamers, Combi-Flamer, MB + HBAB

Techmarine w/Bike, Servoharness, Combi-flamer

Cpt w/Bike, ArtyArmor, Combi-flamer, Relic Blade

 

The core of my Hybrid army with Pedro and TLAC Razor-mounted Sternguard. Take up -alot- of space, but that's the point of the squad. Overwatch is pretty much their main selling point against Hordes. Thin them down for a turn, then when they charge you, FLAMEON with 6 flamers! Great if you can squeeze/justify Vulcan somehow. Expensive single squad, but draws attention away from other vunerable units like up-gunned Razors and mass Speeders.

 

Anyhow, I think there is great ability in bike mounted flamers in addition to a Techmarine on bike supporting them. The servoharness' ability to fire an additional weapon is golden with a Combiflamer, allowing you something rare in a bike army: local saturation of firepower. Typically, you have to use long range and focus fire to bring down horde units, but this combo of 4-6 flamers in a small package can go toe-to-toe with horde units quite nicely without requiring the entire army to support them.

[rossatdi]

I was thinking about running the below as solo-Marine White Scars at 1500 points.

 

HQ

Captain, Bike, Artificer Armour, Power Fist - 175

TROOPS

5 Bikes, 2 Flamers - 150

5 Bikes, 2 Flamers - 150

5 Bikes, 2 Plasma Guns - 170

5 Bikes, 2 Plasma Guns - 170

FAST ATTACK

3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes - 150

3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes - 150

Stormtalon, Typhoon Launcher - 155

HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator - 115

Vindicator - 115

 

The idea is to use the Vindicators as an initial threat to horde and power armour horde while the bikes dismantle threats appropriate to their firepower. Against your typical mech msu I'd be aiming to crack transports then pie plate them. Straight up hordes there's 27 twin-linked bolters and 4 flamers for. The vindicators present a disproportionate threat to cost but bikes provide the perfect complement to keep their flanks safe from people angling for shots on their side armour.

 

Flyers are a pain for straight bikes and I think the 2:1 or 1:2 attack bike vs stormtalon decision is a tough one. I believe attack bikes are just that bit tougher and benefit from being on the ground to start the game. If an opponent has gone heavily for flyers then with the sheer speed of bikes you can try kill them off aggressively. Stomtalons just aren't good enough to let you rule the sky.

[Reichfaust]

I was thinking about running the below as solo-Marine White Scars at 1500 points.

 

HQ

Captain, Bike, Artificer Armour, Power Fist - 175

TROOPS

5 Bikes, 2 Flamers - 150

5 Bikes, 2 Flamers - 150

5 Bikes, 2 Plasma Guns - 170

5 Bikes, 2 Plasma Guns - 170

FAST ATTACK

3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes - 150

3 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes - 150

Stormtalon, Typhoon Launcher - 155

HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator - 115

Vindicator - 115

 

The idea is to use the Vindicators as an initial threat to horde and power armour horde while the bikes dismantle threats appropriate to their firepower. Against your typical mech msu I'd be aiming to crack transports then pie plate them. Straight up hordes there's 27 twin-linked bolters and 4 flamers for. The vindicators present a disproportionate threat to cost but bikes provide the perfect complement to keep their flanks safe from people angling for shots on their side armour.

 

Flyers are a pain for straight bikes and I think the 2:1 or 1:2 attack bike vs stormtalon decision is a tough one. I believe attack bikes are just that bit tougher and benefit from being on the ground to start the game. If an opponent has gone heavily for flyers then with the sheer speed of bikes you can try kill them off aggressively. Stomtalons just aren't good enough to let you rule the sky.

 

I really like the look of this list and would love to hear how it plays out--if you use it, please upload some battle reports! I love the concept of Attack Bike squadrons fielded as fire support for biker armies. I hope in the next SM codex we see some more weapon options... I would love to see Attack Bikes packing Assault Cannons or Plasma Cannons!

[FragEmAll]

Sorry to divebomb this long running thread but i didn't want to make a whole new post about bikes. I've just come off a game where a Bike captain and a 5+MM Atk bike ran down a mob of 20 shoota boys in a wood in one turn. The main factor being the insta hits from 'Hammer of Wrath' It absolutely inspired me!

 

The question is could a 'cavalry charge' of bikers be a viable tactic? I am now planning on doing 2 maximum unit sized squads each with an attached character (Captain and Chaplain) with the aim of turbo boosting, then engaging the enemy firebase in CC. This would yield 10 automatic hits on the charge. the other bike squads and storm talon will provide the usual fire support.

 

Maths wise, vs a 10 man tactical squad, the shots before assault will kill 2 or 3 on average, the auto hits will kill on average another 2, the captain another 2, the serg with a power fist 1/2 and the remaining bikes 1 or 2. will usually be enough to break or wipe out a marine squad.

 

The issue would be having to break them on the charge, so I can see problems with big necron phalanxes, 30 stong boyz if you don't kill enough to prevent fearlessness etc...

 

am i just going off at a tangent because of one good result? Have I watched the Lord of the Rings "Ride of the Rohirrim" cavalry charge one too many times? let me know <_<

[rossatdi]

Sorry to divebomb this long running thread but i didn't want to make a whole new post about bikes. I've just come off a game where a Bike captain and a 5+MM Atk bike ran down a mob of 20 shoota boys in a wood in one turn. The main factor being the insta hits from 'Hammer of Wrath' It absolutely inspired me!

 

The question is could a 'cavalry charge' of bikers be a viable tactic? I am now planning on doing 2 maximum unit sized squads each with an attached character (Captain and Chaplain) with the aim of turbo boosting, then engaging the enemy firebase in CC. This would yield 10 automatic hits on the charge. the other bike squads and storm talon will provide the usual fire support.

 

Maths wise, vs a 10 man tactical squad, the shots before assault will kill 2 or 3 on average, the auto hits will kill on average another 2, the captain another 2, the serg with a power fist 1/2 and the remaining bikes 1 or 2. will usually be enough to break or wipe out a marine squad.

 

The issue would be having to break them on the charge, so I can see problems with big necron phalanxes, 30 stong boyz if you don't kill enough to prevent fearlessness etc...

 

am i just going off at a tangent because of one good result? Have I watched the Lord of the Rings "Ride of the Rohirrim" cavalry charge one too many times? let me know :)

 

Bikes are good for in your face tactics but tend to fold against really serious dedicated combat units. The main problem is the second turn. On the charge you get a volley of twin-linked bolters, hammer of wrath (don't underestimate the challenge of getting all the bikes into b2b for the Hammer O' Wrath bonus) and then the attack bonus. Second turn you get none of that.

 

I see the point of the Chaplin but for the same cost the Librarian with Avenger brings a delicious AP3 flamer to the table that might be very useful.

 

For a "good" cavalry charge on bikes you can still use Space Marines but consider allying in Space Wolf Swiftclaws. Before you yell "ws3!" how many combats is that actually going to be an issue? Most marines will hit on 4s unless they're fighting stuff they'll crush anyway. What do you get instead? Bolt Pistol + Close Combat weapon AND +2 attacks on the charge.

 

Swiftclaws can also take a squad power weapon or fist (I'd recommend axe), have squads of 10 + attack bike AND roll with a combat beasty in the form of Wolf Lord. For ultra cheese Space Wolves can take the two HQ slots for one. Lots of 2+ characters protecting that deathstar!

[FragEmAll]

Sorry to divebomb this long running thread but i didn't want to make a whole new post about bikes. I've just come off a game where a Bike captain and a 5+MM Atk bike ran down a mob of 20 shoota boys in a wood in one turn. The main factor being the insta hits from 'Hammer of Wrath' It absolutely inspired me!

 

The question is could a 'cavalry charge' of bikers be a viable tactic? I am now planning on doing 2 maximum unit sized squads each with an attached character (Captain and Chaplain) with the aim of turbo boosting, then engaging the enemy firebase in CC. This would yield 10 automatic hits on the charge. the other bike squads and storm talon will provide the usual fire support.

 

Maths wise, vs a 10 man tactical squad, the shots before assault will kill 2 or 3 on average, the auto hits will kill on average another 2, the captain another 2, the serg with a power fist 1/2 and the remaining bikes 1 or 2. will usually be enough to break or wipe out a marine squad.

 

The issue would be having to break them on the charge, so I can see problems with big necron phalanxes, 30 stong boyz if you don't kill enough to prevent fearlessness etc...

 

am i just going off at a tangent because of one good result? Have I watched the Lord of the Rings "Ride of the Rohirrim" cavalry charge one too many times? let me know :)

 

Bikes are good for in your face tactics but tend to fold against really serious dedicated combat units. The main problem is the second turn. On the charge you get a volley of twin-linked bolters, hammer of wrath (don't underestimate the challenge of getting all the bikes into b2b for the Hammer O' Wrath bonus) and then the attack bonus. Second turn you get none of that.

 

I see the point of the Chaplin but for the same cost the Librarian with Avenger brings a delicious AP3 flamer to the table that might be very useful.

 

For a "good" cavalry charge on bikes you can still use Space Marines but consider allying in Space Wolf Swiftclaws. Before you yell "ws3!" how many combats is that actually going to be an issue? Most marines will hit on 4s unless they're fighting stuff they'll crush anyway. What do you get instead? Bolt Pistol + Close Combat weapon AND +2 attacks on the charge.

 

Swiftclaws can also take a squad power weapon or fist (I'd recommend axe), have squads of 10 + attack bike AND roll with a combat beasty in the form of Wolf Lord. For ultra cheese Space Wolves can take the two HQ slots for one. Lots of 2+ characters protecting that deathstar!

 

You've just sold someone a Space Wolves codex.... I'll have a look now, especially as i hear thunderwolf cavalry are just broken in their power.

[Reichfaust]

You've just sold someone a Space Wolves codex.... I'll have a look now, especially as i hear thunderwolf cavalry are just broken in their power.

 

 

As a SW player, I wouldn't say they're necessarily broken, but they're pretty god-damned awesome, especially once you attach a kitted out Thunderwolf Lord. But if you're crazy like me and willing to sink 500~ points into them, you'll have yourself a close-combat deathstar that will walk through anything short of hammernators.

 

Surprisingly though, I've never fielded Swiftclaws. I have 5 unpainted bikes, an attack bike and a biker captain from my old vanilla army that I could use, but my Wolves have always filled the fast/choppy role. Torn between using them as an allied biker detachment for mobile scoring & triple special weapon shenanigans, or waiting for Codex: DA to drop and making myself a Ravenwing detachment... (I know, I know... Russ would be ashamed!)

[ShinyRhino]

The "Cavalry Charge" tactic is a tiny bit more viable in 6th, but overall is a tactic of last resort except anything in power armor or with dedicated melee ability (as mentioned).

Bikes' strengths lie in their twin-linked bolters, ability to take pairs of special weapons, and overall maneuverability. Bikes are unable to present enough melee ability to take down units reliably, so they're better served moving and shooting.

Now, against armies like Tau, who are poor in melee and stronger in shooting than bikers, charge away! I've had a single Marine Captain with Artificer Armor and a relic blade carve through a succession of Fire Warrior squads single handedly. He'd cause 2-3 wounds, break them, and then sweep.

The rule of thumb is essentially, if you can outshoot them withut taking mass casualties, do so. If you cannot outshoot them, charge. If you can do neither, move.

[FragEmAll]

As a SW player, I wouldn't say they're necessarily broken, but they're pretty god-damned awesome, especially once you attach a kitted out Thunderwolf Lord. But if you're crazy like me and willing to sink 500~ points into them, you'll have yourself a close-combat deathstar that will walk through anything short of hammernators.

 

Hmm a deathstar that actually works? i've been messing around with Relic Bladed Captain, Chappy, stormshielded Command squad that is the most fun you can have on the charge but a bit pants thereafter.

[Reichfaust]

As a SW player, I wouldn't say they're necessarily broken, but they're pretty god-damned awesome, especially once you attach a kitted out Thunderwolf Lord. But if you're crazy like me and willing to sink 500~ points into them, you'll have yourself a close-combat deathstar that will walk through anything short of hammernators.

 

Hmm a deathstar that actually works? i've been messing around with Relic Bladed Captain, Chappy, stormshielded Command squad that is the most fun you can have on the charge but a bit pants thereafter.

 

Yeah, that's what I love about my TWC. I usually build my list around them so I can go all-out; taking a squad of 5 with a hammer--so when they're not on the charge, that's 24 S5 rending attacks, and 4 S10 hammer hits... and that's without factoring the Thunderwolf Lord!

 

But I think they could still lose to a fully decked-out Biker Command squad. 4x Plasma/4x Shields/4x Power Weapons or something stupid like that. Points be damned, it would be a great battle!

[thelordcal]

I've been having a lot of success with using a big ole blob of terminators in my 2k lists. I've found that they eat most of my opponents fire power leaving my bike squads free to run around causing mayhem and madness.

 

I've also been pondering bringing in Kantor. I love sternguard i tend to run 2x7 w. 5 CMS and 2 HF. They're a deadly squad and they're not overly expensive in an already expensive bike list!

 

TFC are still my go to heavy support option. They present something terrifying to opponents bike armies tend to struggle against (Nids, Orcs) 4 templates!

 

Probably my favorite command squad to date is simple! 4x Plasma Guns, 4x Flamers. Its a steal at 285pts. I can either blast some super elites with 4-8 AP2 shots or really clear out those Aegis Lines, Pathfinders, etx. with the flamers.

 

I'd really like to consider using a dedicated CC Squad, but have them all rocking Power Lances. With a captain using a Power Fist they'd be able to charge and clear most Power ARmor equivalents in a single turn before advancing down the line. I don't think the squad would be over competitive, but it'd look awesome on the table!

 

Maybe we should discuss command squad ideas in further detail?

[Reichfaust]

I've been having a lot of success with using a big ole blob of terminators in my 2k lists. I've found that they eat most of my opponents fire power leaving my bike squads free to run around causing mayhem and madness.

 

I've also been pondering bringing in Kantor. I love sternguard i tend to run 2x7 w. 5 CMS and 2 HF. They're a deadly squad and they're not overly expensive in an already expensive bike list!

 

TFC are still my go to heavy support option. They present something terrifying to opponents bike armies tend to struggle against (Nids, Orcs) 4 templates!

 

Probably my favorite command squad to date is simple! 4x Plasma Guns, 4x Flamers. Its a steal at 285pts. I can either blast some super elites with 4-8 AP2 shots or really clear out those Aegis Lines, Pathfinders, etx. with the flamers.

 

I'd really like to consider using a dedicated CC Squad, but have them all rocking Power Lances. With a captain using a Power Fist they'd be able to charge and clear most Power ARmor equivalents in a single turn before advancing down the line. I don't think the squad would be over competitive, but it'd look awesome on the table!

 

Maybe we should discuss command squad ideas in further detail?

 

Hmm, I never considered taking multiple ranged weapons on the Command Squad... Very interesting idea, I approve.

 

A Biker Cmd Squad with Lances is something I've been wanting to do since the 6th edition power weapon rules dropped... Rules aside, they would look amazing! If only Wolf Guard bikers weren't so damned expensive, I could take a squad of ten Lance Bikers--now a squad like that barreling down on you would be a terrifying sight indeed! :D

[rossatdi]

Maybe we should discuss command squad ideas in further detail?

 

Lets!

 

Personally I think they're a little bit expensive but there's definitely uses for them.

 

So the core cost for Command Squad + Bikes is 205 points for 5 men. This compares to the 140 points for 5 normal bikes.

 

So what do you get for the 65 points? +2 attacks (one on the profile, one from the knife) and feel no pain. That's a good start. You lose 'troop' status but hell, your not playing vanilla marine bikes to win easily.

 

Important note: The apothecary is a 'character' in the new rules. That means if there's no other character in the unit he can be challenged out which can be dangerous. On the other hand roll his dice separately because he gets to 'precision shot'.

 

Company Champion: Costing the same as a power weapon you get a power weapon, +1 Ws, a 6++ save and character status. This helps protect the apothecary from challenges and adds more precision shot potential. I'd say this is an auto-include unless they're running as a special weapons platform as he loses access to squad options.

 

Roles

 

Choppy: Vanilla Marine bikes are not very good in combat. These guys are. They will be expensive but you're paying for a tough, fast, hard unit. However, no matter how many point you pour into them they are NOT a deathstar unit. With a 3+ save and 1 wound they'll lose in combat to most hardcore combat units and enemy characters at the same price. As a goal I'd say keep them under 300 points.

 

1. Combat Beast - Command Squad, Bikes, Company Champion with Power Sword (for challenges), Power Axe (hidden), Power Fist (hidden), 2 storm shields = 290 points

All-rounder combat unit. Add and drop weapons for flavour. Keep the storm shields off the power weapons (to keep the +1 attack for extra ccw). Consider dropping some melee equipment for can-opening meltaguns.

 

2. Cavalry Charge - Command Squad, Bikes, Company Champion with Power Lance, 3 Power Lances, 2 storm shields = 295 points

I just find this kind of amusing! Stacks of str5 ap3 attacks. For full stupidity add Khan for str6 attacks.

 

Dakka: The unit is pretty durable with high resilience to torrent fire. They also have the chance to take 4 special weapons. Personally I prefer keeping meltas on dedicated charging units or attack bikes and its not like bikes struggle with squishy hordes. So that leads to plasma...

 

3. Hot Wheels - Command Squad, Bikes, 4 Plasma Guns, 2 Storm Shields = 295 points.

Compare this to the equivalent in troops choices. Two five man squads with 2 plasma guns a pop costs 340 points. Yes you've got half the wounds but they're tougher and a lot cheaper (especially if you drop a shield or two) with the ability to charge in and finish a unit with a flurry of attacks.

 

Independent Characters

 

Space Marine Captain - Should always have Artificer Armour. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but 2+/4++ Tg5 is too good for a 15points upgrade. Watch as your opponent yells in anguish as his torrent fire bounces off your Captain's 2+/FNP and his Ap2 gets Look Out Sir'd to a Storm Shield/FNP. Remember if you add him to the squad you're looking at 450+ points.

 

Chaplin - Seems like a natural choice for a combat unit with a couple of natural downsides. For 135 points he's only got a Ap4 weapon but the 4++ is lovely. The combat buff is nice but it won't help you beat proper combat deathstars. His biggest downside is he's about the cost of a whole squad of bikes (140 without special weapons) and he's not a Librarian.

 

Librarian - I love this combo. 135 points brings you a gun platform of serious potency. As far as I can tell you choose from Avenger, Vortex of Doom and Null Zone. Null Zone is a massive kick in the balls for super units shrugging off you're low AP weaponry. Need those hammernators dead? Nullzone + plasma. On the flipside both Vortex and Avenger are immensely good shooty power on a bike platform. I'd err on the side of Avenger as nothing makes a Marine player sweat like a AP3 flamer.

 

Blood Angels Librarian - Ally him in, take divination, take primaris power, re-roll all 'to hits' with 4 plasma guns. Win. Assault Marines blend well as allied troops for bikers as it is so taking them isn't a massive pain.