Koremu Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 So I was considering the options regarding serious Tank Hunting in 6th Edition, and I have come to the conclusion that the (already good) Land Speeder has been made incredible in 6th Edition. Improved survivability because of the Jink rule (5+ Cover while moving, 4+ Cover while Flat Out) Greater reposition range (maximum move of 30" Flat Out) Improved Hitting Power (able to move 12" and fire two weapons at full BS) For 70 points - 35 points per Multi-Melta - the dual MM Land Speeder is now the cheapest way of effectively deploying Melta anywhere. I also think that the Assault Cannon Land Speeder could be in for a renaissance as a decent addition to a Transport-Hunting Land Speeder Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Land Speeder is a valid choice for "tank hunting". It was a valid choice in 5th edition; now it has even a 5+ default cover save when it moves. Hull points are not a great concern on an AV10 vehicle, in m opinion. The only prblem I see is the problem I have with every SM army: you never had enough points to field whatever you want, but this is another story -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3114632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Yeah the dual Multi-Melta Landspeeder is looking very powerful now! I was thinking about adding a Multi-Melta to my single MM armed Landspeeder now. Just where am I going to get the points from, since I want so much new stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3114634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Where do we think the "5th edition special" MM/HF Speeder fits now? Is it less desirable now because more dedicated Land Speeders are better at their job? The ability to meaningfully engage a wider variety of targets is great, but with cover less bothersome are they still worth it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3114674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Where do we think the "5th edition special" MM/HF Speeder fits now? Is it less desirable now because more dedicated Land Speeders are better at their job? The ability to meaningfully engage a wider variety of targets is great, but with cover less bothersome are they still worth it? I've been thinking about this too. The main reason behind that build was to keep it cheap, but also because at 12" movement (which is what you wanted to go at), you could only fire one of its weapons. Now that you can fire both when moving 12" it's not as needed to have that config. However, I don't see myself flocking to the dual MM Speeder set up, due to MM ABs. Yes that old argument. Not only are MM ABs 30pts cheaper (yes, dual MM Speeders are 80pts, not 70pts), but they may also be more survivable. Sure they die to torrent, but then so do Speeders now, more than ever. They also get a jink save as well, so equal there. But while krak missiles and the like could one shot a Land Speeder, it will take a S10 weapon to one shot an MM AB now due to true T5. On the other hand, dual MM Speeders will still have better mobility, being able to jump over buildings etc, and they're certainly a lot more viable than before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3114779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 It's an interesting one. For two MM from Attack Bikes you are looking at 100pts, where as you can save points with a Landspeeder with two MM. Taking two such Landspeeders or 4 Attack Bikes makes this points difference more pronounced. Of course, the key difference is how opponents deal with such units/vehicles compared to what's in your army. Having a Rhino or two and a Landspeeder means people end up with target saturation, but if you have those 2 Rhinos and the Attack bikes, I'm not going to fire the Lascannon at the Attack bike over the Rhino since it doesn't die to a single shot anymore. I do think dual weapons will be popoular though. Focussed shots often means you don't waste any shots each turn, they'll always be a place with some lists, but more people would prefer the dedication. Lists with lots of versatile units are better than one or two versatile units in a focussed list (generally). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3115486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian of the Rage Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Another interesting thought, even if only in an anecdotal sense, would be the dual Heavy Bolter equipped pattern. Certainly not something that would have been near many lists in 5th, however I do think that it may warrant at least a glance in 6th. 18 S5 AP4 shots after a 12 inch move is not to be sniffed at, especially for only 180 points and one 1 FA slot (potentially). To put that into perspective, that works out at 8 dead necron warriors per salvo (in the open). I believe that the prevailing features in list selection (META) will switch toward many more 'foot-sloggers' with the changes to transports and Rapid fire weapons. Thus the ability to lay down such fire for such a comparatively low cost will have merit. More firepower is available, but almost always for a considerably higher cost and/or more valuable slots on the FOC. sit with it for a while and see what you think... Cheers, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3115606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm thinking I have to build more Speeders. The ever-popular Typhoon will remain popular (hence, "ever-popular!"). The range of the missiles, plus the ability to fire the heavy bolter after moving 12" is great for light transport duty. Same as it ever was, though glances from the heavy bolter are deadlier. However, I think the Tornado pattern will come into is own now, for the same reasons. The assault cannon combined with the heavy bolter firing after a 12" move can put the hurt on infantry, as well as glance those light transports to death. I may find mysefl running a lone Typhoon and a squadroned pair of Tornados. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3115651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak-73 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Double MM option will probably be the most frequent - for good reasons. Double killing opportunity, double hull point damage opportunity, 12'' and shoot both, redundancy in case of a weapon destroyed. The AC+HB config is also an option. It all will depend on how popular foot armies or tank armies or light mech armies in general will be. Alex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3115756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 What does everyone think about Squadrons with regards to the new hit allocation rules and the decreased fear of immobilisation? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3115765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 What does everyone think about Squadrons with regards to the new hit allocation rules and the decreased fear of immobilisation? I think it will be more useful for thinks like IG tanks and artillery than it will for light-skinned skimmers. When my opponents shoot at my Speeders, they tend to do so with intent to kill, dedicating high-S weapons that will penetrate rather than glance, and they fire them in volume (Rifledread volleys, Long Fangs, Predators, etc). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3116457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think first point I would make is that 6th Ed seems to have opened up far more viable options on the battlefield, and that is a very good thing! ;) Regarding speeders, its nice to see that dual-MM, HB-AC, Typhoon and even a squadron of 3 dual-HB builds are looking interesting. Running Ravenwing rules, I already get access to MMABs as Troops choices, so for me the dual-MM speeder is less useful in my lists. I will probably stick with Typhoons initially, as they are 25 points cheaper than the AC-HB variant in C:DA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3116617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 What does everyone think about Squadrons with regards to the new hit allocation rules and the decreased fear of immobilisation? It's something I welcome, and a very good change to the game IMO. I may have to try it out, as that'll net me a slot for the Stormtalon. It'll be good to see the good old heavy bolter/assault cannon config, I ran Sammael in his Speeder and 5th Ed wasn't kind to him. Now his Speeder is pretty nasty and durable compared to the rest (as usual), but the main thing is its new mobility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3117139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 What does everyone think about Squadrons with regards to the new hit allocation rules and the decreased fear of immobilisation? It's something I welcome, and a very good change to the game IMO. I may have to try it out, as that'll net me a slot for the Stormtalon. It'll be good to see the good old heavy bolter/assault cannon config, I ran Sammael in his Speeder and 5th Ed wasn't kind to him. Now his Speeder is pretty nasty and durable compared to the rest (as usual), but the main thing is its new mobility. I don't know the point values or what former rules Sammael's speeder had, but AV:14 on front and side on a land speeder on top of TL-AC/HB seemed pretty sweet for a fast skimmer. Also the sword that comes with the model is just too sweet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3117804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Sammael's problem in 5th was the restriction on movement and shooting. If he moved >6", he could only fire one of the weapons. If he moved <6", he could fire both, but was then it in melee on a 4+ on rear armor. No one really wanted to spend all those points on a model that can only fire one anti-infantry gun per turn. Now he can move all he wants and shoot everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/255998-brothers-the-land-speeder/#findComment-3117811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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