Joasht Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm a little surprised I didn't notice a thread on this topic yet... Anyway, with the advent of 6th, some have decried non-Corbulo Sanguinary Priests as being a waste of points. Between the "supposed nerf" of FnP to 5+, the nerf of FC to no longer boost I, and the comparative ease to snipe out the Priest, it appears that our Priest is becoming a bad idea. Personally, I think they are still very much playable, but you need to be more careful with positioning them. The FC nerf was something I had honestly expected since the end of 3rd ed. (back when all BA's had FC) so it doesn't at all surprise me, while the FnP "nerf" is actually a boost in my opinion - it makes you more susceptible to torrents but much more resilient against armor-ignoring attacks; a trade-off I'd gladly take. This leaves us with the problem of them being sniped, but frankly, mathematically due to Look Out Sir, the chance of them randomly dying to precision attacks (literally and figuratively) isn't actually that high. It is, however, still a possibility. For games up to 1,500 I'd still probably take up to a pair (one of which will most likely be Corbulo), and for games exceeding that I think three is still a legit choice. The difference that should be made, IMO, is keeping them "naked" barring things like Jump Packs, should your list necessitate it. I've traditionally always done this; logic would have it that its a waste of a couple of attacks, but I'd very much rather save some points and lose some random vanilla punches rather than lose my FnP beacon. What are your thoughts on Priests in 6th? Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Priests give BA a virtual 5+ re-roll against non ID AP3 MEQ weapons, there are lots of those around. That FNP roll only has to work twice on a RAS or once on an attached character in a game to redeem the 50-90 points for a priest. They give a +1 strength bonus on the charge. As mentioned LOS at 2+ negates a lot of the IC downsides. Who else has 5+ against plasma or power weapons on a troop unit these days. A priest significantly elevates any BA unit above the standard AV3 marine and seriously buffs terminators. No one else gets priests either so we may get Mephiston or DC used against us but priests are still unique to BA and are required inclusion for fluff players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3114998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlund Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The changes in 6th edition make the Sanguinary Priest more survivable. I used to leave him in the back of the pack with an expectation of inevitable demise. Now the sergeant and other assault marines can protect him so I'm inclined to equip him with a Power Axe. 4 strikes at S6, AP2 seems like a solid complement alongside my Librarian with the Primaris Power from Divination replacing my NERF'd Unleash Rage. That's a whole lot of hitting, wounding, and killing. - Marty Lund Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 The changes in 6th edition make the Sanguinary Priest more survivable. In a sense, yes. Its a shift for me though since I traditionally left them out of combat entirely, while now they seem more survivable hidden in a big squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 FNP works against everything that isn't Instant death (page 35 in the rule book) This includes plasma weapons, power axes (as long as the wielder isn't S8-10, depending on the model) and of course all of the AP3 power swords ;) ~Edit. Also, thanks to the combat through initiatve, a Sanguinary Priest could use a power fist and not get gibbed before he strikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I just had a thought worth mentioning in this thread! In 5th our Sang Noviates were good value as they were not able to be singled out. Now they are classed as characters so they are subject to challenges and can be targeted by sniping characters etc etc. They also only get LOS on a 4+ as they are not an IC. Our normal priests are subject to all the same things except that they can roll for LOS on a 2+, this makes our regular priests alot more survivable that our noviates! A complete roll reversal I guess and probably worth remembering! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDuck13 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I had some doubts about the usefulness of the priests, too. Then I played my first game with the new rules over the weekend and completely changed my mind. They are more survivable in close combat, even if they do lose some of it at range thanks to precision shots. And being able to keep FnP on my Librarian saved me two separate perils wounds, easily making up for his points and then some. I just gave mine a power sword, but I'm considering making it an axe, since he seems to survive so well. Oh, and if he's challenged, of course I'll decline. That or put my Sarge in the way in his place. Either way, it works. I know another part of the equation that everyone (including myself) was in doubt of was the lack of the bonus to Initiative that was such an important part of his abilities in 5ed. If you keep with your jump packs, that is actually nicely made up for with Hammer of Wrath. I didn't think it'd be worth as much, but then you get to the important part of these attacks. They hit at I10, AND they automatically hit. I think the trade off has panned out nicely. SD13 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 They hit at I10, AND they automatically hit. Missed that.... Will definitely look to use HoW more often. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 They are invaluable now as a further save against Plasma for a start. Power Axe and Meltabomb is the way to go. 4 WS5 Str6 AP2 attacks on the charge makes a mess of most targets in the game. They got FAR more survivable now they can't be singled out in combat, bar precision strikes which can be LOSed away on a 2+ Obviously don't accept challenges with him, that's what Sergeant Bulletcatcher is for. Adding characters to units is very strong in this edition. Consider this as a possible core element of a BA army. Codicier with Jump Pack, Unleash Rage, Shield, Force Axe. Priest with Jump Pack, Power Axe, Meltabomb. 10 Assault Marines, 2x Melta, Meltabomb 10 Assault Marines, 2x Melta, Meltabomb Delivering those characters to combat is what it's all about. If one unit gets shot up, the characters jump in the other one. The Sarge lets you game the challenge system in all it's combinations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 They hit at I10, AND they automatically hit. Missed that.... Will definitely look to use HoW more often. Hammer of Wrath is invaluable. Let's say you face a small unit of Halberd GK's. Get your assault team in for a HoW attack and, even though the halberds get their armour save, 10 s4 attacks (if you manage to get all 10 in base contact) are bound to hurt. If the halberd are in base contact (which they should be) they are the ones removed thanks to 6th edition Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hammer of Wrath is invaluable. Let's say you face a small unit of Halberd GK's. Get your assault team in for a HoW attack and, even though the halberds get their armour save, 10 s4 attacks (if you manage to get all 10 in base contact) are bound to hurt. If the halberd are in base contact (which they should be) they are the ones removed thanks to 6th edition Great in theory but difficult to pull off since you have to give up your 12" move. Your opponent should be aware of FC and HoW, most likely you'll just get counter charged before you manage to pull it off. Or he'll pull back a couple of inches and make sure you can't reach him with a regular move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3115977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hammer of Wrath is invaluable. Let's say you face a small unit of Halberd GK's. Get your assault team in for a HoW attack and, even though the halberds get their armour save, 10 s4 attacks (if you manage to get all 10 in base contact) are bound to hurt. If the halberd are in base contact (which they should be) they are the ones removed thanks to 6th edition Great in theory but difficult to pull off since you have to give up your 12" move. Your opponent should be aware of FC and HoW, most likely you'll just get counter charged before you manage to pull it off. Or he'll pull back a couple of inches and make sure you can't reach him with a regular move. It's difficult but not impossible. It's a tactic that when used efficiently can be of great use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 ~Edit. Also, thanks to the combat through initiatve, a Sanguinary Priest could use a power fist and not get gibbed before he strikes. What? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 ~Edit. Also, thanks to the combat through initiatve, a Sanguinary Priest could use a power fist and not get gibbed before he strikes. What? You can hang back them move in at your initiative after everyone else has swung. My librarian has been doing that with his Force Axe. Not yet tried it with a priest, due to my priests being modeled with swords or lightning claws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Priests are your main killers in 6th. Where in 5th you held them back due to IC targetting, in 6th IC targetting is gone - Now they kick ass with WS5, +1 Str with an axe, and you can LOS any precision wounds on a 2+ away from them. 4 WS5 Str6 AP2 attacks on the charge per priest, often means they will clock more heads than the rest of the assault squad models combined. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Priests are your main killers in 6th. Where in 5th you held them back due to IC targetting, in 6th IC targetting is gone - Now they kick ass with WS5, +1 Str with an axe, and you can LOS any precision wounds on a 2+ away from them. 4 WS5 Str6 AP2 attacks on the charge per priest, often means they will clock more heads than the rest of the assault squad models combined. The entry for Sanguinary Priest in the BA Codex page 87 states: "Replace chainsword with a power sword or lightning claw". So Sanguinary Priests can't take Power axes as it states power sword and not power weapon. ~Edit. Blood Champions can take a power weapon. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Plex Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Priests are your main killers in 6th. Where in 5th you held them back due to IC targetting, in 6th IC targetting is gone - Now they kick ass with WS5, +1 Str with an axe, and you can LOS any precision wounds on a 2+ away from them. 4 WS5 Str6 AP2 attacks on the charge per priest, often means they will clock more heads than the rest of the assault squad models combined. The entry for Sanguinary Priest in the BA Codex page 87 states: "Replace chainsword with a power sword or lightning claw". So Sanguinary Priests can't take Power axes as it states power sword and not power weapon. But the BA faq says to replace "power sword" with "power weapon" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Priests are your main killers in 6th. Where in 5th you held them back due to IC targetting, in 6th IC targetting is gone - Now they kick ass with WS5, +1 Str with an axe, and you can LOS any precision wounds on a 2+ away from them. 4 WS5 Str6 AP2 attacks on the charge per priest, often means they will clock more heads than the rest of the assault squad models combined. The entry for Sanguinary Priest in the BA Codex page 87 states: "Replace chainsword with a power sword or lightning claw". So Sanguinary Priests can't take Power axes as it states power sword and not power weapon. But the BA faq says to replace "power sword" with "power weapon" Completely missed that. Thanks. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think if FC still gave +1 initiative, I would say an axe for a priest was a bad idea. But based on everything I've seen with my librarians, I think axes should be awesome for priests too. I will try to find some to remodel at least 1 priest as a test. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 By pure coincidence I have a SP with a power axe, as I wanted to give him something that would stand out from other power weapons in my army. Might actually come in useful now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have plans for this guy and ordered a bunch of BA axes like this tonight off ebay http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/Weathered/40K/ForceAxe.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 And being able to keep FnP on my Librarian saved me two separate perils wounds, easily making up for his points and then some. I'm pretty sure that PoTW specifies that you get no saves of any kind, so no FnP. I may be wrong, though. About the hanging back with the priest, doesn't it say in the book that IC's should endeavour to get into B2B as part of the charge move, or is that more forging the narrative than an actual rule? My Priest has been rocking the table with a power weapon for a few games, the FnP on power weapon attacks is invaluable 5+ on most things is better than 4+ ignored by plasma/rending, I have found. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 And being able to keep FnP on my Librarian saved me two separate perils wounds, easily making up for his points and then some. I'm pretty sure that PoTW specifies that you get no saves of any kind, so no FnP. I may be wrong, though. FnP is not a save. The only thing that disallows fnp is instant death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256021-sanguinary-priests-in-6th/#findComment-3116640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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