Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Greetings Battle Brothers, What's your opinion on Draigo in 6th Edition? During 5th Edition Draigo was regarded as a beast in CC but the new rules on power/force weapons nerfed his "Sword of Titan" to a mere AP3 weapon. (Stil devasting versu psyker vehicles,like Furioso Librarian, though :) ) This can harm his performances in CC, especially against opponents with AP2 weapons and 2+ armour save. I believe Draigo is still a wonderful model for protecting expensive units like paladins with his capability to withstant a lot of damage, especially when backed up with an apotecary, but is he still useful outside the paladins' "Draigowing"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Draigo will usually be attached to a squad of Paladins, who are all characters. So if you run into the guy with the 2+ armour save, just challenge/answer the challenge with a Paladin with a Nemesis Daemon hammer. Or use Draigo to keep the other character busy while the Paladins kill the rest of the squad, then use a Glorious Intervention to switch the hammer wielder in the challenge to kill off the one with the 2+, providing he's not dead already. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartans Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Also it should be noted as Paladins are all characters if they role any 6 to hit they can pick who they hit so a unit of 10 could be very dangerous to special characters or weapons hiding in units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 I agree with bot of you about Draigo and Paladins but I was wondering about his role outside the Paladins lists. I 5th Edition I used Draigo more often than I used paladins and he was nearly unstoppable, now I'm curious to see if he has a role without his "paladins guard" :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 He's still pretty unstoppable, just not as killy as before ;) I often found that he ended up missing or failing to wound with most of his attacks (I call it IC syndrome), I'll happily challenge anything with him, knowing he should be able to tank them while my paladins kill everything else :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 He's still pretty unstoppable, just not as killy as before :D I often found that he ended up missing or failing to wound with most of his attacks (I call it IC syndrome), I'll happily challenge anything with him, knowing he should be able to tank them while my paladins kill everything else :D Will you challange Arjac-like characters with him? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 arjac while being scary, would be a good fight for drago. it would be the epic battle of tanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 hmmm, either challenge Arjac with draigo, challenge him with a paladin or let him run wild through a squad of paladins... Yes, I'd challenge Arjac with Draigo :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 hmmm, either challenge Arjac with draigo, challenge him with a paladin or let him run wild through a squad of paladins... Yes, I'd challenge Arjac with Draigo :D It seems the general "consensus" on Draigo is: "I play him with Paladins", thus answering to my original question with a "It's not very useful outside Paladins list" :D Am I right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 no. cause he is the only EW IC for GK. so you can put him with some foot slog units, or drop him in a LR with something else and use him THAT way. he can soak up challenges for a unit of purifiers so that they can massacre another squad. you can use him with other units, just be creative in how you do it. the reason why most people use him in a pally list is he unlocks pallys as troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 no. cause he is the only EW IC for GK. so you can put him with some foot slog units, or drop him in a LR with something else and use him THAT way. he can soak up challenges for a unit of purifiers so that they can massacre another squad. you can use him with other units, just be creative in how you do it. the reason why most people use him in a pally list is he unlocks pallys as troops. Perhaps I didn't make my point clear... I was trying to say "He will be useful for the same role he has in paladins lists but not longer as CC beast" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Perhaps I didn't make my point clear... I was trying to say "He will be useful for the same role he has in paladins lists but not longer as CC beast" How is he not a CC beast, though? So he's only AP3. He's also very high Str, very high number of attacks, and a Force Weapon to boot...if he gets one wound through, there aren't many characters that can stand up to that. There are ICs that pen his 2+ (with axes, fists, etc) but he's still got EW, 3++, and a mess of wounds himself. And he's like T5, right? The guy is still a beast, make no mistake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 In certain situations (namely in close combat against 2+ save models) he's not as strong as before. Thade nailed it quite nicely though. Draigo's effectiveness isn't just because he had a nice sword that ignored saves - his profile and statline are just plain good, very good. I think he'll be good at challenging psykers - 4 WS7,Str 10 attacks at initiative 5 will splatter most psykers in the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Perhaps I didn't make my point clear... I was trying to say "He will be useful for the same role he has in paladins lists but not longer as CC beast" How is he not a CC beast, though? So he's only AP3. He's also very high Str, very high number of attacks, and a Force Weapon to boot...if he gets one wound through, there aren't many characters that can stand up to that. There are ICs that pen his 2+ (with axes, fists, etc) but he's still got EW, 3++, and a mess of wounds himself. And he's like T5, right? The guy is still a beast, make no mistake. AP3 means versus 2+ characters with AP2 weapons he risks to suffer more wounds than his opponent. I quoted Arjac for a reason. Arjac will still make his 2+ armour saves while Draigo will have to count on his storm shield. I'm not saying he will lose the combat, I just asked if someone had some 6th edition combat experience with Draigo to share and remove some of the doubts I have :lol: If my calculations are correct a charging Draigo should inflict 0.37 unsaved wounds on Arjac (0.46 with hammer hand), then Arjac attacks inflicting 0.42 unsaved wounds. It's clear the duel will be likely a draw but Arjac costs much less than Draigo. In 5th edition Draigo would have a good chance to kill Arjac before he had the chance to retaliate. If we consider a character like Arjac but without storm shield Draigo would have killed him with easy while now we are lucky if we inflict a single wound to the enemy character. This is what I was talking about. Of course Draigo is still powerful but I was curious to read about other players opinions on Draigo's current "CC prowess". In certain situations (namely in close combat against 2+ save models) he's not as strong as before. Thade nailed it quite nicely though. Draigo's effectiveness isn't just because he had a nice sword that ignored saves - his profile and statline are just plain good, very good. I think he'll be good at challenging psykers - 4 WS7,Str 10 attacks at initiative 5 will splatter most psykers in the game. Indeed. I already mentioned it... Psyker vehicles, like Furioso Dreads for example, will be destroyed with ease. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If my calculations are correct a charging Draigo should inflict 0.37 unsaved wounds on Arjac (0.46 with hammer hand), then Arjac attacks inflicting 0.42 unsaved wounds.It's clear the duel will be likely a draw but Arjac costs much less than Draigo. Arjac doesn't come with Grand Strategy, S10 vs Psykers, Psychic Communion, Psychic Mastery Lv 1, or the host of other niceties that Draigo comes with. You need to keep in mind that there's a reason the Wolves have access to a character like Arjac and we don't, and it's not just points-cost...it's big-picture/codex-wide. Also, Arjac does not unlock Paladins as Troops... Assuming your calcs are accurate, I'd happily assert that 0.37 wounds, 0.42 wounds, and 0.46 wounds are all functionally the same when you account for significant figures here. :( because either they're all zero or Draigo comes out very slightly ahead (0.5 vs 0.4). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Doesn't Draigo have mastery level 2? I only use Draigo to unlock Paladins, and to help paladins survive. If I could take an army of paladins without him, then I would. Accepting a challenge from Arjac with him depends on all the other factors in the combat, and while Arjac is 87 points cheaper, those 87 point's buy you a fair bit with Draigo, as Thade mentioned :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 If my calculations are correct a charging Draigo should inflict 0.37 unsaved wounds on Arjac (0.46 with hammer hand), then Arjac attacks inflicting 0.42 unsaved wounds.It's clear the duel will be likely a draw but Arjac costs much less than Draigo. Arjac doesn't come with Grand Strategy, S10 vs Psykers, Psychic Communion, Psychic Mastery Lv 1, or the host of other niceties that Draigo comes with. You need to keep in mind that there's a reason the Wolves have access to a character like Arjac and we don't, and it's not just points-cost...it's big-picture/codex-wide. Also, Arjac does not unlock Paladins as Troops... Assuming your calcs are accurate, I'd happily assert that 0.37 wounds, 0.42 wounds, and 0.46 wounds are all functionally the same when you account for significant figures here. :lol: because either they're all zero or Draigo comes out very slightly ahead (0.5 vs 0.4). I was just analyzing Draigo's combat performaces. I have been a fan of Draigo since they day I saw his codex entry so I don't have to be persuaded about how great he is :lol: I was trying to investigate on his current "dueling capabilities" since it's what separates him from other Grand Masters, along side with Mastery 2 and S10 vs psyker, which I have mentioned in my first post. For the purpose of this discussion unlocking paladins as troops is not relevant, since I said "a part from unlocking paladins" which is a very useful trait; there is no doubt about it. As I said I was talking about Draigo prowess in combat, the other capabilities cannot be "nerfed". The reason of my curiosity is the desire to use Draigo as the "more frequent warlord" from my GK since I really love the characters, thus the questions I posted :huh: For the records: calculations come from a famous online calculator. The data were based on a charging Draigo. Doesn't Draigo have mastery level 2? I only use Draigo to unlock Paladins, and to help paladins survive. If I could take an army of paladins without him, then I would. Accepting a challenge from Arjac with him depends on all the other factors in the combat, and while Arjac is 87 points cheaper, those 87 point's buy you a fair bit with Draigo, as Thade mentioned :P If I could I'd use Draigo every time since I really the character ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3115860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Even in 6th there is no model in the game that I wouldn’t gladly challenge with Darigo. 3++ 4W Eternal Warrior will keep him alive long enough to land at least one hit. 4-5 S5(6) master crafted attacks that hits most things on a 3+, and instant death, will putt any would be hero in the ground. Logan and Lysander are 4W 2+ Eternal Warriors, but even they need to get 4 wounds past 3++ at I1 and Draigo only needs to get one attack through their 2+ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3116231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (Delete post) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3116233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (Delete post) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3116238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Even in 6th there is no model in the game that I wouldn’t gladly challenge with Darigo. 3++ 4W Eternal Warrior will keep him alive long enough to land at least one hit. 4-5 S5(6) master crafted attacks that hits most things on a 3+, and instant death, will putt any would be hero in the ground. Logan and Lysander are 4W 2+ Eternal Warriors, but even they need to get 4 wounds past 3++ at I1 and Draigo only needs to get one attack through their 2+ No, he needs to get 4 attacks through, because they have Eternal Warrior. Draigo is by no means bad 1-on-1, but the SC game is much more rock, paper, scissors than it was before. Things like daemon princes do a real number on Lysander or any other I1 SC, while Draigo will eat a daemon prince for breakfast, possibly with fries. Logan is actually rather nasty as he gets to choose between high I AP3 attacks and low I AP2 attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3116349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Even in 6th there is no model in the game that I wouldn’t gladly challenge with Darigo. 3++ 4W Eternal Warrior will keep him alive long enough to land at least one hit. 4-5 S5(6) master crafted attacks that hits most things on a 3+, and instant death, will putt any would be hero in the ground. Logan and Lysander are 4W 2+ Eternal Warriors, but even they need to get 4 wounds past 3++ at I1 and Draigo only needs to get one attack through their 2+ No, he needs to get 4 attacks through, because they have Eternal Warrior. Draigo is by no means bad 1-on-1, but the SC game is much more rock, paper, scissors than it was before. Things like daemon princes do a real number on Lysander or any other I1 SC, while Draigo will eat a daemon prince for breakfast, possibly with fries. Logan is actually rather nasty as he gets to choose between high I AP3 attacks and low I AP2 attacks. This was my first impression on the matter. Logan may be a little more problematic. Deamon Prince does not stand a chace, of course, as it should be :D By the way, it seems Draigo is still strong enough to meet the enemies "champions" blade to blade without easily giving the "slay the warlord" victory point to the opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3116375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The unit is fun, but the character "Draigo" is the worst thing Ward's ever imagined for us. He's better at the Big E's job than the big E himself. According to his story, he should both cost and be worth 2000 points. He's silly. :( Model is fun, though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3116410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Even in 6th there is no model in the game that I wouldn’t gladly challenge with Darigo. 3++ 4W Eternal Warrior will keep him alive long enough to land at least one hit. 4-5 S5(6) master crafted attacks that hits most things on a 3+, and instant death, will putt any would be hero in the ground. Logan and Lysander are 4W 2+ Eternal Warriors, but even they need to get 4 wounds past 3++ at I1 and Draigo only needs to get one attack through their 2+ No, he needs to get 4 attacks through, because they have Eternal Warrior. Draigo is by no means bad 1-on-1, but the SC game is much more rock, paper, scissors than it was before. Things like daemon princes do a real number on Lysander or any other I1 SC, while Draigo will eat a daemon prince for breakfast, possibly with fries. Logan is actually rather nasty as he gets to choose between high I AP3 attacks and low I AP2 attacks. I… I declare momentary insanity…. But I still hold firm that Draigo would win. Hi always wins. Master crafted and higher initiative will see him through. And he has the paladins to fall back on :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3116428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 The unit is fun, but the character "Draigo" is the worst thing Ward's ever imagined for us. He's better at the Big E's job than the big E himself. According to his story, he should both cost and be worth 2000 points. He's silly. :( Model is fun, though. I mean I like the stats to represent a custom-made Grand Master :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256052-is-draigo-useful-in-6th-edtion/#findComment-3116434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.