Brother Captain Kezef Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 This isn't a discussion of individual allies so in the interests of not getting it shutdown lets keep it that way and not mention anything non-PA. Allies are an interesting new part of 6th ed so I thought I'd open a discussion on what the system can do for us by putting out some general thoughts. MASS GK's are an elite, relatively small force, especialy if you use terminators. Some of our ally options have cheap HQ's and large troop choices. One ideais to take this option to provide sme cannon fodder or cheap objective holders to supplement our hard hitting frontline. Myself I have an army with a 32 model count at 2k (GM, Vindicare, 3x GKT squads). I a at a disadvantage if I have to sacrifice parts of my small arm for holding objectives. If i can trade in a GKT squad for a larg allied troop contingent they can hold whilemy termies do their wetwork Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 GK's are an elite, relatively small force, especialy if you use terminators. Some of our ally options have cheap HQ's and large troop choices. One ideais to take this option to provide sme cannon fodder or cheap objective holders to supplement our hard hitting frontline. This is exactly my thought and we know there is very competitive army with cheap HQ's and large troop choices ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3115324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hmm I personally don't see much use for our allies in terms of power armoured armies. If it's scoring units you want I don't think you allied detachment can count as scoring unless you are brothers in arms but feel free to correct me. Also taking Coteaz and filling the rest of your troop slots up with scoring henchmen squads will probably work better. Sadly we can only discus power armoured armies because I could make a few good arguments for guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3115336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I have tried to find different ways to include allies in my army. And all though I can certainly understand people wanting to ally some GK to their armies, I’m having a hard time to find an ally that would do better than selections from my own codex. If only we had some Battle brothers… Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3115350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 We have some very useful ally options. Sadly we can't discuss these in this forum. For example, Flyers and Snipers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3115378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I have tried to find different ways to include allies in my army. And all though I can certainly understand people wanting to ally some GK to their armies, I’m having a hard time to find an ally that would do better than selections from my own codex. If only we had some Battle brothers… There very interesting options. Beside Brothers in arms is not necessary. Allied non-bothers in arms units can still hold objectives since there is no rule that prevent them to do it (They were scoring units in WD battle report too... just for the records) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3115737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Well, IMHO there is no ally “without PA” worth taking over Coteaz and his henchmen. And all though some Hammernators or a Stormtalon would be nice, you have to pay a minimum of 100p for a HQ if you want to ally with a SM army. When you measure points in Paladins (and so on) its hard to stay motivated with allies :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Snipers. :lol: +2 Cover Saves and Aegis Defense lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Don’t get me wrong, I love Telion scouts and use them often in my SM army. But they cost 200p and need a HQ that can’t join my GK. And as far as I know there is no SM HQ that works well with sniper scouts except a Forge Father with Conversion Beemer, and that seems like such a waist. For 325p I can get another five paladins with two MC-Psycannons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I don't believe the good Gentleman is talking about SM scouts, but some other brand of snipers that for some reason do not exist here. Perhaps they cannot Find the Path to the B&C Forums. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I don't believe the good Gentleman is talking about SM scouts, but some other brand of snipers that for some reason do not exist here. Perhaps they cannot Find the Path to the B&C Forums. even though they should excell in locating paths.... ;) just a little joke :D Anyway I think allies can give GK some benefit but when we talk about PA allies the choices are very limited: long range support; CC boosts (I'd like DC dreads from C:BA but their talons have been a little nerfed versus TDA. Still deadly versus anything with a PA or less protection), Ravenwing bikes, etc, but all the choices requires a significant amount of points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think that our allies HQ’s are such a waist of points most of the time. They may all be good in their own codex’s but they can’t improve my GK in any significant way. Even if a sniper ally would find the path into my army, and there HQ was good enough to protect them and ward of evil. I still don’t think that the points would justify that many Paladins, Purifiers, Dreads and so on, not being a part of my army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think that our allies HQ’s are such a waist of points most of the time. They may all be good in their own codex’s but they can’t improve my GK in any significant way. Even if a sniper ally would find the path into my army, and there HQ was good enough to protect them and ward of evil. I still don’t think that the points would justify that many Paladins, Purifiers, Dreads and so on, not being a part of my army. The Original poster mentioned "low cost" HQ and large cheap troops units. There is only a viable ally under such circumstances. We cannot talk about it here but you may clik on my two GK build in my signature. They are links to topics in the army lists section where we are allowed to talk about such allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 True, but a waist of points doesn’t have to be expensive. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 True, but a waist of points doesn’t have to be expensive. :( There are several allies combos than will be interesting. Increasing the number of models on table it's useful if you play Draigowing and usually the cost of such allies will equal 3-4 paladins but if you already have a 10 men unit those additional paladins will be alone, thus more easy to kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 even though they should excell in locating paths.... just a little joke *whistles* /waves hand These are not the allies you're looking for. Move along, move along. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 even though they should excell in locating paths.... just a little joke *whistles* /waves hand These are not the allies you're looking for. Move along, move along. and this is a reference to Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope..... B) You reminded me of old memories, even though I watched Star Wars movies so many times even in recent times... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The only ally I have toyed with so far is a "Exorcists" unit of Space Marines. Master of the Forge (a Techmarine with BS5 and 2 wounds for 10 points more, and is an HQ choice) 10 man Tactical Squad with Melta and ML 275 points for the pair The Master of the Forge can repair our vehicles, and bolster a ruin that we can use. Interestingly, the passage in the SM codex Blessing on the Omnissiah says; QUOTE Blessing of the Omnissiah: If a Techmarine is in base contact with a damaged vehicle during the Shooting phase, he can attempt to repair it instead of firing. So, theoretically, what would stop him actually repairing an enemy vehicle? Taking this ally would free up an elite slot below 2000 (that would normally be taken up by the techmarine), and, also (maybe) the ML will in future get the Flakk missile upgrade for dealing with flyers. Being in PA, the Exorcists make a good objective camper unit, and if anything armoured gets close it gets a melta stuffed in its face :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 As I recently had a /doh moment and realised that no, I *don't* want to take two Rune Priests as allies, I've also looked at taking a Master of the Forge. But with a Conversion Beamer. And two Squads of Scouts for long range Pew Pew from Home objectives. And a Thunderfire!! I've also looked at swapping it around, so that the GK are allies, but I can't talk about that here. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchiBuh Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The Master of the Forge can repair our vehicles, and bolster a ruin that we can use. Interestingly, the passage in the SM codex Blessing on the Omnissiah says; Considering that any allies are NOT brother in arms, you can not repair Grey Knight vehicles as you marine allie are treated as hosiles that you can not shoot ... That means, no power or abilities can be used between Grey Knights and their allies. Else the idea was good. I would consider 10 Grey Hunters (Space Wolves) for objective defending ... But then, they are hostiles and I presume that means that can no hold objective for you ... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The Master of the Forge can repair our vehicles, and bolster a ruin that we can use. Interestingly, the passage in the SM codex Blessing on the Omnissiah says; Considering that any allies are NOT brother in arms, you can not repair Grey Knight vehicles as you marine allie are treated as hosiles that you can not shoot ... That means, no power or abilities can be used between Grey Knights and their allies. Else the idea was good. I would consider 10 Grey Hunters (Space Wolves) for objective defending ... But then, they are hostiles and I presume that means that can no hold objective for you ... :lol: There is no rule that prevents your allies, of any kind included desperate ones, to hold objectives. Being treated as "enemies" for the purposes of several army-wide abilities does not mean they are "enemies". In fact they are your allies ;) . If they were hostile units your opponenent should control them. Since you are the controlling player and rulebook states a player holds an objective if he/she has a scoring unit within 3"; then allied scoring units can hold objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3116799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchiBuh Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I suppose that is correct. That probably makes Space Wolves Grey Hunters the best objective campers. They are cheap, got CCW, pistol and bolter, counter-attack and can overwatch ... Would you assault that? Also, I think they are not seen as characters, so you can not single out a Grey Hunter with power fist, correct me if I am wrong ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3117699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I know it's very clever to refer to non-B&C approved armies with sly references to what can't be discussed. But that clearly violates the spirit of the B&C's policy rules, and is skating right on the line of technicality, too. So if it happens even one more time, I will close this topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3117704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hey over on BOLS they are saying that the only allies that can score are battle brothers (so GK can't score as allies or get scoring allies) I have read page 112 and 123 a dozen times and can't seem to find what the heck they are talking about. Has anyone found this? Or are they smoking krak again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256058-allies/#findComment-3119744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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