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Back to the drawing board


Zedrenael

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So I want to document my adventures to finding synergy in my list again especially since I want to play a more competitive Blood Angels army. I average top 3 in my LGS tournaments but I want to move on to more national tournaments and I need to stay in at least the top 2 to do that. So I wanted to start a thread about the adventures through practice games and list building ideas to do this again. I want to build a synergy list that fits my play style. My play style in the previous edition is more firepower than my opponent. The fire element if you would. I am adaptive to my situation like water but I relied on the shooting phase more than anything. Also the fact that our tanks can out move anyone except Eldar and out cover save anybody out there.

 

So I have gotten a few games in with my Blood Angels and sixth edition, and I have posted a few list ideas in the Army List Review area. Due to the fact I do not want to double post I will those there and start a new one from here.

 

Some of the things that I want to take advatage of at the 2000 point game level is the double FOC and the allies detachment in some way, but keep it fluff sane. So personal not to cause a disturbance in the force I will be playing Imperial Guard with my Blood Angels to get a planetary defense force to get more scoring units.

 

I will also like to take advantage of the new psychic powers in the back of the BRB and are advantage of double FOC having 10 total psykers to choose from 6 of which are incased in a dreadnought.

 

The last and final thing that I want to try and take advantage of in the new edition is the introduction of fortifications and interactive terrain.

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Currently a must have for me in my army is the standard parking lot marine force that is the starting point in the previous edition.

 

Librarian - Lance/ Shield

Librarian - Lance/ Shield

RAS - RB TLAC

RAS - RB TLAC

RAS - RB TLAC

RAS - RB TLAC

Total 820

 

So using what was standard in the previous edition in the new edition it is allowing me to open up all the options that I want to explore to find my center on the battlefield again.

I have a hit of miss with my old razorspam list now with new glancing rules. I just need to find more reliability in the list again. I am all over the place right now with 10-50% or my army is guard. I know what people are thinking. Why guard? Well I would have to say that for the limited number of troop slots you get on the allied detachment table guard make up the most of that slot. For the price of a 5 man assault squad you get two 10 man imperial guard squads. So with that they can combine to deny kill points or space out to capture objectives. They are great fodder in many ways. I am having excellent success with the allied guardsmen. They give you more get 'em boss re-rolls. Cannon fodder for challenges (sergeants) and the first rank fire, second rank fire is golden when coming to the short game of rapid firing 3 shots every turn at 12". Just things I would let people know to consider if you are up for playing allies.

I would update for 6th ed while attempting to keep your old flavor, something like this.

 

Librarian Lance/Shield

Librarian Lance/Shield

Tactical squad, Plasmagun, Combi-Plasmagun, Lascannon

RB TLAC

Tactical squad, Plasmagun, Combi-Plasmagun, Lascannon

RB TLAC

Predator, AC, TLLC

Predator, AC, TLLC

-1060

 

Razorspam is dead as a competitive build. It really is, you can't afford to hold back 280 points of assault marines that don't contribute other than to score objectives in your half of the board. However, the TLLC Pred is doing fine, able to move 12" and fire it's lascannons, present an AV13 face at that longer range, randomized weapon destroyed and harder to suppress.

 

I would run a magnifying glass over the use of the Librarians as well. Is two necessary? A couple of Biomancers or Telepaths would have synergy with the rest of the force though.

I know that Razorspam is pretty much out the door. Especially since you can get a 4+ cover save by just 25%. So you really do not need a librarian with shield of sanguinius anymore. I was trying to find the appropriate ally in this manner and I have come to the final conclusion that a planetary defense force of imperial guardsmen is the best bet for what Armor divisions are lacking. I have also come to the conclusion that having two FOC is not worth the amount of points you need to invest to unlock it. So I will be going into a game this Friday with a revamped list of armored for BA.

Another issue that I ran into the other day was fliers. I am not liking them at all I played in a game against Necrons and I must say that they rule the air. His list

 

Immotech

C'TAN Shard

Overlord w/ resurrection orb

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

 

Some other things that I am forgetting but with him siezing the initiative from me with that 4+ (little that I could do) he made a mad dash for cover with all the warriors squads. Also in the first turn I took 13 lightning strikes agasint multiple things. By the beginning of my turn I had an immoblised baal predator and a wreck vindicator. I also lost thirty guardsmen to them failing there morale check for losing so many in the first turn of shooting. By the end of my turn I had killed 3 warriors and wounded the C'Tan shard once. (I hate night fight). Then start the flight of the vaylkries song as five of the six doom scythes fly in and start strafing all the armor left in my army. I was being tabled by turn 2 and I could not make a save to save my life. By the beginning of turn 2 I was left with one assault squad, a librarian, two razorbacks, and Yarrick (I played on). By the end of turn 2 for my I had destroyed one flyer and had another in locked velocity thanks to some lucky rolling. I also had Yarrick fail his charge on the C'Tan shard that was making the whole table difficult terrain which ruins any assaulting army from doing there job. In the end of turn 3 I had nothing and was wiped clean off the table. I need something to counter these double FOC flyers.

He really had 6 Doom Scythe models already? Wow. If it wasn't a tournament game I probably wouldn't play it - how is that army 'fun' <_<

 

Best thing to do is hoof it into his deployment zone ASAP - that many fliers is a pain in the ass to move around the table. Make sure he sticks to the rules of zooming and hull mounted weaponry having a 45 degree angle.

 

A Drop pod army would destroy that one. It's silly rock/paper/scissors building.

Blood Lance loves flyers. I ruined a couple of Doom Scythes when I ran my (illegal because he has a stormshield and jump pack and I can't read the rules) librarian.

I'm thinking 2 or even 3 Librarian dreadnoughts might make the game harder for flyers. Add them with a couple of Stormravens and the AV11 Doom Scythes would be a little easier to take down. Maybe.

I have been playing this list since Jan. starting at 1250 and buliding it to 2500 I am at 2000 points now, and I am loving this list! Here you go:

 

Librarian JP shield/Rage

Librarian JP shield/Rage

 

3 priests with JP PW MB's

 

Chaplain JP MB's

 

AS 10 man with 2 flamers Sgt. with HF PW

AS 10 man with 2 MG's Sgt. with PF IP

AS 10 man with 2 MG's Sgt. with PF IP

 

10 man scout squad 1 ML camo cloaks 9 w SR

 

2 10 man Dev with 3 ML and 1 PC

 

I have won three best generals in tournaments, and countless games. It has fire power, and is a very balanced list. Not to mention that the scout in almost every game have gotten the RT.

Another issue that I ran into the other day was fliers. I am not liking them at all I played in a game against Necrons and I must say that they rule the air. His list

 

Immotech

C'TAN Shard

Overlord w/ resurrection orb

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Necron Warriors 5 man

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

Doom Scythes

 

Some other things that I am forgetting but with him siezing the initiative from me with that 4+ (little that I could do) he made a mad dash for cover with all the warriors squads. Also in the first turn I took 13 lightning strikes agasint multiple things. By the beginning of my turn I had an immoblised baal predator and a wreck vindicator. I also lost thirty guardsmen to them failing there morale check for losing so many in the first turn of shooting. By the end of my turn I had killed 3 warriors and wounded the C'Tan shard once. (I hate night fight). Then start the flight of the vaylkries song as five of the six doom scythes fly in and start strafing all the armor left in my army. I was being tabled by turn 2 and I could not make a save to save my life. By the beginning of turn 2 I was left with one assault squad, a librarian, two razorbacks, and Yarrick (I played on). By the end of turn 2 for my I had destroyed one flyer and had another in locked velocity thanks to some lucky rolling. I also had Yarrick fail his charge on the C'Tan shard that was making the whole table difficult terrain which ruins any assaulting army from doing there job. In the end of turn 3 I had nothing and was wiped clean off the table. I need something to counter these double FOC flyers.

 

Stop playing 2k plus :) to start ;)

From that point on, dont use guardsmen either :P Thats probs where you're going wrong :P

 

I posted in another thread but:

 

You can try fight fire with fire. Storm ravens can take out 2 fliers a turn if theyre lucky thanks to PotMS. Id get yourself some of these.

 

Also, look into a drop pod squad with some death - that way, you can come down in first and lay waste to hiding things.

 

Aegis defense line is also good with quad gun taking out one guy before he comes on.

 

Then dev squads with one LasCan for the BS5 signum shot at the opponent.

You can try fight fire with fire. Storm ravens can take out 2 fliers a turn if theyre lucky thanks to PotMS. Id get yourself some of these.

 

Also, look into a drop pod squad with some death - that way, you can come down in first and lay waste to hiding things.

 

Aegis defense line is also good with quad gun taking out one guy before he comes on.

 

Then dev squads with one LasCan for the BS5 signum shot at the opponent.

 

I would say those are all sound advice if he already owns the models But to create (or overreact to) power builds is exactly what GW whats us to do. They will earn a :cussload on this new edition. I say keep your head cool and let the meta work itself out. I for once would refuse to play that list.

You can try fight fire with fire. Storm ravens can take out 2 fliers a turn if theyre lucky thanks to PotMS. Id get yourself some of these.

 

 

Double check the ruling in the BRB but I am pretty sure that PoTMS can only allow you to shoot one more weapon at full BS at the same target as all other weapons on the vehicle.

You can try fight fire with fire. Storm ravens can take out 2 fliers a turn if theyre lucky thanks to PotMS. Id get yourself some of these.

 

 

Double check the ruling in the BRB but I am pretty sure that PoTMS can only allow you to shoot one more weapon at full BS at the same target as all other weapons on the vehicle.

 

Nope nope. Different target :cuss

 

:P we're good to go.

You can try fight fire with fire. Storm ravens can take out 2 fliers a turn if theyre lucky thanks to PotMS. Id get yourself some of these.

 

 

Double check the ruling in the BRB but I am pretty sure that PoTMS can only allow you to shoot one more weapon at full BS at the same target as all other weapons on the vehicle.

 

You can still fire at a seperate target.

 

a question though about flyers vs flyers. Would it be better if your flyers used a flat out move to leave the table if they came on first to make sure they get the jump on enemy flyers? If you took air defenses then you could counter anyone else trying the same thing against you. However this does fall into GW's plan of spending more money...curse you GW.

You can try fight fire with fire. Storm ravens can take out 2 fliers a turn if theyre lucky thanks to PotMS. Id get yourself some of these.

 

 

Double check the ruling in the BRB but I am pretty sure that PoTMS can only allow you to shoot one more weapon at full BS at the same target as all other weapons on the vehicle.

 

You can still fire at a seperate target.

 

a question though about flyers vs flyers. Would it be better if your flyers used a flat out move to leave the table if they came on first to make sure they get the jump on enemy flyers? If you took air defenses then you could counter anyone else trying the same thing against you. However this does fall into GW's plan of spending more money...curse you GW.

 

I'd rather take the oppurtonity to destroying a scoring unit or one or possible two ground vehicles.

Stop playing 2k plus :( to start :P

 

I said this jokingly, but...I really do mean it. 2k with double FOC is silly (imho) It allows you to break the game WAY too easily.

Try 1750 or 1850.

 

 

I enjoy the double FoC and having to think outside the box more. So I have another tentative game right now for a rematch against the necrons of doom we will see how this goes.

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