Morticon Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I noticed something sad for for blood lance. you can only snap fire at flyers, if you don't have skyfire.you can only snap fire something that requires a roll to hit. as blood lance doesn't, just like blasts and templates, it's not going to work :) was about to argue this, but upon closer reading of all the caveats, I think you're right. a question though about flyers vs flyers. Would it be better if your flyers used a flat out move to leave the table if they came on first to make sure they get the jump on enemy flyers? . Yessir!! And its a tactic I will be using for sure! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3119071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 So some of the anti flyer that I am considering in my list today is Blood Lance with the Librarians. I am not keen on a SR with the high point cost and so many things that I try to field at one time. I am dabbing in the idea of an infantry only army. I would also like to continue to paint more but we will see how all this goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3119918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 As per your question if the list I posted is still viable. I would say yes played my second 6th ed. game against a flyer heavy DE army. It was bloody, but I still won with 27 marines left on the board. Lance worked wonders! 66 marines is sometimes hard to deal with. FnP was not really a game changer like it has been for me in the past, but the extra save was cool. Oh yeah we played 2000 points. I took one FoC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3119932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 One thing that got me interested in FnP was when I was playing against a Tyranid player recently and he gave all his MC FnP. That was a brutal match since they got that save against just about everything and he always seem to make it. So I thought the same would apply to my BA and I was mistaken when he smashed attack Brother Corbulo and killed him a single round of combat. I was highly sadden. So I have no idea what I am going to do about this new edition and all the changes to my army. I am still liking the idea of the PDF. I know that I was lacking scoring units in the previous edition but I still made due. That was due to the fact that I did not need to disembark to capture an objective. Now everytime I get out of my tank to do this I get shot to bits and always get blown off the table. So with the 25 Guardsmen for the price of a 7 man assault squad I can capture more objectives and focus my main BA force to do the damage that it was known to do. I was a huge mech player on the border of obssesed. I always planned for the biggest games. For that reason I have no limit to the access of BA vehicles. I just have a limit to the actually troop count. So with that I am trying to figure all this out before I go out and buy another company of marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3119935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I know how you feel I own about 22,000 points of marines. Also a tactic I saw used today was a blood angel Tac squad get out and rapid fire a squad, and because our vehicles are fast after they shoot move the rhino to block the unit from fire. This means you don't fire with said transport but you live another turn too. Just thought of something too use them to block charges you see coming too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3119941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So some of the anti flyer that I am considering in my list today is Blood Lance with the Librarians. Read rules for "Snap Fire" - Blood Lance is no go sadly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3119989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So some of the anti flyer that I am considering in my list today is Blood Lance with the Librarians. Read rules for "Snap Fire" - Blood Lance is no go sadly. Page 63 Codex: BA states, under the Blood Lance entry "Any enemy unit in the lance's path suffers a single Strength 8, AP 1 hit with the 'lance' type." Page 13 of the rule book, under Snap Shots entry states "Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnance, or those that have certain special rules, such as Blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots." Blood Lance is a 'lance' type, not Template, Ordnance or Blast, and therefore can use Snap Shot rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3120020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So some of the anti flyer that I am considering in my list today is Blood Lance with the Librarians. Read rules for "Snap Fire" - Blood Lance is no go sadly. Page 63 Codex: BA states, under the Blood Lance entry "Any enemy unit in the lance's path suffers a single Strength 8, AP 1 hit with the 'lance' type." Page 13 of the rule book, under Snap Shots entry states "Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnance, or those that have certain special rules, such as Blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots." Blood Lance is a 'lance' type, not Template, Ordnance or Blast, and therefore can use Snap Shot rules. You seem to have missed out the part that tells you a weapon which does not use its BS to fire cannot snap shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3120023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So some of the anti flyer that I am considering in my list today is Blood Lance with the Librarians. Read rules for "Snap Fire" - Blood Lance is no go sadly. Page 63 Codex: BA states, under the Blood Lance entry "Any enemy unit in the lance's path suffers a single Strength 8, AP 1 hit with the 'lance' type." Page 13 of the rule book, under Snap Shots entry states "Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnance, or those that have certain special rules, such as Blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots." Blood Lance is a 'lance' type, not Template, Ordnance or Blast, and therefore can use Snap Shot rules. You seem to have missed out the part that tells you a weapon which does not use its BS to fire cannot snap shot. And because it doesn't roll to hit it doesn't use it's BS skill ... right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3120030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitrage Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So some of the anti flyer that I am considering in my list today is Blood Lance with the Librarians. Read rules for "Snap Fire" - Blood Lance is no go sadly. Page 63 Codex: BA states, under the Blood Lance entry "Any enemy unit in the lance's path suffers a single Strength 8, AP 1 hit with the 'lance' type." Page 13 of the rule book, under Snap Shots entry states "Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnance, or those that have certain special rules, such as Blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots." Blood Lance is a 'lance' type, not Template, Ordnance or Blast, and therefore can use Snap Shot rules. You seem to have missed out the part that tells you a weapon which does not use its BS to fire cannot snap shot. And because it doesn't roll to hit it doesn't use it's BS skill ... right. Pg 81 Hard to Hit. "Shots resolved at a zooming flyer can only be resolved as snap shots" Pg13 Snap Shots "Its important to note that any shooting attack that does not use a Ballistic Skill - such as the Necron Monolith's portal of exile - cannont be 'fired' as a snap shot." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3120052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 How is my road to sanity become a rules discussion? If you have a problem with it take it here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3120066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 IMO all infantry armies that we can build are pretty damn good. DoA is not a really good option. and I hate sitting there for a turn while my guys get shot to :cuss. So what other things have you tried besides mech? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3120706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 A PDF Force to supplement my main BA force. Which keeping the mech theme of my list I take mostly vehicle for my BA but my troops const mostly of IG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3120806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 So that is it just mech? I watched a game on Mon. IG vs. all infantry Necrons and IG just got slaughtered. Not saying that this will happen to you. Necrons are just so damn deadly to mech lists right now. DE you can kill those dark pointy eared bastards easily enough. GK's are not that difficult either, but Necrons :cuss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3120813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Okay so on the drawing board was this previous tournament this past weekend. I had played my beloved BA with an IG detachment. Since 6th has come out I have a pretty good track record with my BA/IG combo, but when I went back to my old pure BA Mech I got decimated (which leds me to believe it was a fluk). I have been bouncing around ideas for what to run and I was limited in models that I brought to the tournament so I went with: Blood Angels Main Force Librarian - Lance/Shield (Diviniation powers mostly for the Primaris Power) Librarian - Lance/Shield (Diviniation powers mostly for the Primaris Power) Brother Corbulo (Worth his weight in the reroll and FNP LoS rolls) Tactical Squad w. Plasma gun and Plasma Cannon in Rhino (Most game I had them combat squaded so I would put the Plasma Gun in the rhino and just drive it around, while the cannon sat in cover and fired every turn) Tactical Squad w. Plasma gun and Plasma Cannon in Rhino (Most game I had them combat squaded so I would put the Plasma Gun in the rhino and just drive it around, while the cannon sat in cover and fired every turn) Baal Predator w. TLAC (Used to take out pesky high armor that my Plasma Cannons could not deal with) Baal Predator w. TLAC (Used to take out pesky high armor that my Plasma Cannons could not deal with) Imperial Guard Detachment Command Squad w. Colonel Straken (He was interesting in making the command squad fearless and having the few extra special rules) Infanty Platoon (The reason for taking infantry platoons was the fact that I could combine squad them to deny kill points but still have the model count for contesting objectives) -Command Squad -Infantry Squad -Infantry Squad Infanty Platoon (The reason for taking infantry platoons was the fact that I could combine squad them to deny kill points but still have the model count for contesting objectives) -Command Squad -Infantry Squad -Infantry Squad Guardsmen Marbo (I added purely cause I had points to spend. I also have seen some success in the past with Marbo and deepstriking in for that devestating demo charge.) Squadron of 2 Leman Russ Executioner with Camo Netting (So since I read in the BRB that the Executioner is not going to Get Hot I decided to run as many as I had. I gave them Camo Netting for camping in the back field and getting that beautiful 3+ cover save.) Fortification Aegis Defense Line w. Quad Gun (I took this to give those guardsmen something to hide behind and give them the 4+ cover save. I took the Quad Gun for some Flyer defense in prep for the nonsense that I had a few weeks prior.) Round 1 So my first game was against a Chaos Daemon player that was the hardest match of the tournament. It was objective based game with one center objective and the other two in each of our deployment zones. In the first turn I had used the Quad Gun to shoot Fateweaver when he DS into play. Which was not very eventful. I also laid down a barrage of Plasma Cannon Fire on his fiends and Bloodcrushers destroying them all down to a few men apiece. He also DS a Daemon into ongoing reserve (which btw prevents further DSing from that Daemon). Also a squad of Bloodletter that on the new nicer mishap table still got swallowed by the warp. Uneventful turn for him since he could not engage anything on my side of the table. On the second turn I dropped more templates on them trying to destroy everything that I could for the oncoming onslaught. Since I shoot the Quad gun in his turn I could not use it again until my third turn. So I tried shooting Fateweaver down with some assault cannon fire but that failed since I did not have Skyfire. So on his turn they dropped down to the jump mode and started dropping Flame on my 20 man squads of guardsmen. He also deepstriked Flamers of Tzeentch into cover but Quad Gun destory two of the three of them but the one did manage to kill six guardsmen. Since we had a lot of rules arguments the thrid turn would be our last. Since I was out of position for getting the Objectives and he DS on two of the three I was SoL so I tried to draw up the game which when I laid down the fire I was able to do that. I assaulted his Bloodthirster with Straken who managed to kill him off. I also finished off the Bloodcrusher and fiends with some more concentrated fire. I also manage to destroy a squad of plaguebears standing in the backfield. On his following turn he was able to reclaim one of the objectives and tie up the first round of the tournament putting me in a bad position imo. Round 2 This round 2 was my best game to date in sixth edition everything seemed to be in my favor for this game. It was kill point game with secondary objectives I get deployment first which was the 5th ed DoW delpoyment. So I positioned the Aegis Defense Line 24" into the table taking the center objective. I then kept the Infantry Platoon seperate and delpoyed one librarian with the command squad in the center on the objective. and then I deploy the two ten man on the left and right give my opponenet pretty much a 6" deployment zone on his side of the table. So him playing White Scars w/ Khan elect to stay off the table edge coming in turn 1. So my first turn was uneventful just getting everything on the table and moving flatout and running to the center of the table. I had the quad gun delpoyed in a tower with my Tactical squad from deployment. So his first turn he DS a dreadnought DP onto my back field behind my Leman Russ. He then rolled on a Land Raider, his squad of two Land Speeders, and a walking tactical squad. The Land Raider was filled with 5 terminators with LC and a chaplain. So at the end of his movement phase I elected to intercept his dreadnought and was able to get two glancing hits and a pen killing it before it could do anything. His LR and LS are on the left of the field trying to kill one squad of Guardsmen that went to ground behind the wall getting that 2+ save. On my beginning of my second turn I gave the squad that went to ground the order to get back into the fight. I then laid down some Plasma Cannon fire into the LS and failing his jink save destroyed both with that partial template is full strength now. I then used the Tactical squads PC to destory all of the tactical squads on his back field. By the end of my turn he had one SM with Missile Launcher that went to ground and the filled land raider left since I could not get my Baal Preds over since they where the only thing that had hope of doing anything. Beginning of his second turn he was able to bring in three combat squads of bikers outflanking two on my right and one on my left. He still had a Stormtalon and Khan sqaud left in the wing. With that I used interceptor to shot one squad with a attack bike killing three of the bikers forcing a fail leadership and falling back into a wall of rhinos and two tactical squads killing the bikers right there. He then tried to lay bolter fire into one of my tactical squads that was only able to kill one. The other attack bike was able to destroy one of the leman russ with some a lucky 6 on the damage table. Then the land raider came up and still just kept up the suppressing fire on the guardsmen behind the wall who where going back to ground. On the third turn the guardsmen got the order again to get back into the fight and surround the land raider completely except for the front ramp which I was leaving open so that Straken could assault the tank. I then used the remaining leman russ to destroy the remaining squad of the attack bike. It was able to destroy down to one bike that refused to die from everything that it took that turn. The other squad was the same way on the right side of the table. Even after 8 TLAC shoots, one PC and a squad of bolter fire he still had his Sgt left there to deal with. I was able to kill that lone ML in the back field that was huffing across to try and sneak an objective. I was able to assault the LR and crack it open with Strakens Bionic hand of doom and destroy what was inside along with it. His following turn he was able to get Khan in with his combat squad and Stormtalon escort that came in with the sergeant and only killed three space marines before they got assaulted by the surviving sergeant. I was able to pen and glance the ST taking it down before it could do anything this turn. Khan also failed to make a difference in the battle. Fourth turn Marbo finally came in and walked on from my table edge and dropped a blast on Khan killing four bikes in the process. Then the rain of TLAC fire and PC finally took Khan out. I also was able to kill the sergeant in the final troth of battle in the assault phase. I got full points for this battle..... Round 3 More to come....... PS Next time there will be photos. 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Zedrenael Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 Well Round 3 never came and that is partially due to my A.D.D. I have tried so hard to find out what is working for me in the current format and I just can't seem to wrap my head around it. I am so use to using Razorback spam that it was hard to let go of so many vehicles. I mean at 2000 points I still had 12 vehicles. So with the new format focusing on infantry being more involved I have sadly went overboard in some respect to this. I have taken 57 Guardsmen with one heavy weapons teams to support my main Blood Angels force. I also have fallen in love with the Aegis Defense Line being what it is giving 4+ cover save to anything behind it. I also enjoy the Quad Gun being used by Brother Corbulo. I also love the Manticore from the guard codex as that templates are not the full template for vehicle damage. So the list that I am currently running is: Blood Angels Librarian -Lance -Shield Librarian -Lance -Shield Brother Corbulo Tactical Squad -Plasma Cannon Tactical Squad -Plasma Cannon Baal Predator Baal Predator Vindicator -Siege Shield Vindicator -Siege Shield Imperial Guard Command Squad -Straken -Officer of the Fleet Guardsmen Marbo Infantry Platoon -Command Squad -Infantry Squad -Infantry Squad Infantry Platoon -Command Squad -Infantry Squad -Infantry Squad Manticore -Camo Netting Fortification Aegis Defense Line -Quad Gun Librarians - The reason that I still mention the librarians powers is that once in a blue moon that I do not roll on the divination table I still like having a well rounded librarian. So I give him lance for auto hitting flyers and shield to give cover saves to make up for the lack of invuls in the shooting phase. Just when I play most games I will use divination table in the BRB and give the guardsmen blob squads Twin Linked with the primaris power. I also try and give them the perfect timing power but that is a 1/6 chance. If I get perfect timing then you can ignore Jink saves pretty much with ignore cover on weapons like the Quad Gun with Brother Corbulo behind on BS 5. Tactical Squad - I am taking the basic two infantry squads with Plasma Cannon for some anti 2+ save. Other than this fact I am using them purely as an objective camper in the back field. Baal Predator - I am slightly disappointed in how these came out in 6th Ed. It makes me cry that I can not scout and use smoke but the redeployment is a nice feature to put them into LoS blocking terrain or out front of my main force. Vindicator - Is that well rounded tank that will be used for taking out terminators or just taking out vehicles with ordnance. I gave them both siege shields cause my luck I would always immoblise both in the first turn just trying to get into position. Brother Corbulo - The pride and joy of the army is Brother Corbulo for me. I have made some death defying rolls with that reroll changing the entire game. That pen roll that would give me that one extra kill point that failed assault roll to get into position to kill that one objective camping squad. I will always try and squeeze him into a squad. For the gaurd side of the house: Command Squad as a basic function for guard but taking Colonel Straken has made a good choice. He is fearless and giving 20 guardsmen counter attack after overwatch has made some people cringe especially when I still have the Primaris Power in effect. Officer of the Fleet to ruin a flyers day in rolling for reserve since I only keep Marbo in reserves and he is not vital. Infantry Platoons - They are being taken as just a fluctuation factor. That I can deny kill points or have more scoring units. It is also hard to deal with that many twin linked rapid fire 24" triple fired 12" shots. Guardsmen Marbo is taken a fun factor to the whole list. Have you ever seen some deep strike next to a quad gun take it and shot down your own aircraft. I have, cause I did it. He is just that annoyance factor. Manticore. I think givnig this thing more credit than it is worth but I like the Barrage templates raining hell on my enemies. I also like the fact that with Camo Netting and hiding the entire front facing behind another tank or wall gives it 2+ cover to shooting attacks. lol For the fortification I would take the quad gun with Brother Corbulo on it to get twinlinked 2+ shots. So I was wondering what other people thought about this list or my reasoning for taking what I took. Photos soon to follow of everything since it needs to be painted for feast of blades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256071-back-to-the-drawing-board/page/2/#findComment-3138119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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