adamv6 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 First, I would like to point out one thing, I had absolutely NO luck at all. I don't mean I was a little unlucky, I am talking about full blown NOTHING went right for me, on missions, cover, objectives or dice rolls. Second, certain aspects of the Tau codex are spectacular now. Blacksun filters are a given, as there is a pretty good chance of night fighting at some point during the game. Stealth field generators now give shrouding and stealth. Stealth gives +1 to cover saves. Shrouded gives +2 to cover saves. Two USRs stack, so units with generators sit in +2 cover for most of the game. The changes to vehicle shooting rules make Devilfish a pain in the backside. So bearing the above in mind, I would like to run you through just how much bad luck I had. First, we rolled for deployment, Dawn of War. Second, mission type, rolled a 3 :( (the mission with objectives that heavy support can claim). Next, Warlord traits. He went for strategic and got "Move through cover and stealth on the whole army"... Awesome, just what I needed. Next, cover. We ended up with 6 pieces on a 4x4 board. Great, a lovely open board for those railguns and sniper drones. We placed objectives, he hid one behind a massive piece of cover near his deployment zone. I stacked the other 2 on one side of the board. The game started with me rolling 11 hits on his pathfinders, who sat hiding in 5+ cover (4+ with stealth remember), he rolled his saves and lost 3 models... 3 DICE BELOW 4 in 11 !!! At this point, I should have realised this game was not going to be mine. My next attack was on his devilfish with my Dread. I pen'd it, rolled a 5, he rolled a 6 for cover.... And on the game went in this tone, at one point I assaulted his stealth suit unit with my Termies, he managed to roll 7 6s and I failed 4 saves of 2+. I lost the game, even though holding 2 objectives to his one, because, he had killed 2 of my heavy units, and took first blood. So, I couldn't really ascertain if Tau are now crazy powerful, but, the one thing they have always suffered from was AP4 weaponry, and now, with cover save modifiers, they can negate that. I am having a rematch next week. Anybody else fought 6th Ed Tau or had 6th edition bend them over and dry shaft then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I didn't get quite as boned as you did, but Tau sure got pretty decently playable as opposed to last edition. It has become an actual fight now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Shield Drones FTW? :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You simply had bad luck. Tau are still garbage and basically unplayable. Null Zone still ruins Shield Drones. Get in there, concentrate your fire and assault. Deep Strike your Termies in if you need to or just run Paladins. There's no reason a Tau player should be able to outrun you with your access to Stormravens and Teleporting Dreadknights. Seeing your list would be more helpful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 You simply had bad luck. Tau are still garbage and basically unplayable. Null Zone still ruins Shield Drones. Get in there, concentrate your fire and assault. Deep Strike your Termies in if you need to or just run Paladins. There's no reason a Tau player should be able to outrun you with your access to Stormravens and Teleporting Dreadknights. Seeing your list would be more helpful Seconded. I play Tau, and they are complete garbage now and in 6th. You just had horrendous dice man, it happens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv6 Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Null Zone still ruins Shield Drones OK, I am being seriously thick here, but I never realised that GK Librarians can cast powers from the standard SM codex. The only one I have ever wanted was Null Zone :jaw: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Huh? They can't, you could get access to it through allies though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I didn't get quite as boned as you did, but Tau sure got pretty decently playable as opposed to last edition. It has become an actual fight now. I suspected Tau were about to be "buffed" as soon as I saw 6th edition rules. It seems I was right, at least by a certain degree. I'm starting to think our GK are one the armies that lost a significat part of their power during the transition to 6th edition... Am I the only one to think that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It's not so much that we lost power, it's rather that others gained more than we did. Or they gained, while we stayed still. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It's not so much that we lost power, it's rather that others gained more than we did. Or they gained, while we stayed still. ;) In the end the effect is the same: balance of power changed, and it was not in our favour ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormshadow Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, our codex was made for 6th, and that gave us some advantages in 5th, but now the playing field is getting leveled and I am rely happy about that ;). People that didn’t give us any slack when we played DH, and started to scream bloody murder when we changed to GK, may get off our backs now ;). The sad thing about Tau though is that I think GW gave them a buff in the making of 6th edition instead of prioritizing the making of a new codex for them. So tau may have moved way down in the pipeline :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Tau has had a bit of a buff, and I am very much looking forwards to fielding mine again. Tau were still very much playable in 5th, it was just hard to win. Now they are better, but don't worry, I'm sure GW will nerf us with a new FAQ when they realise what they have done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasterfree Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 the MTC and stealth is only on ruins btw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvious Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Hey it happens. Bad dice rolls. I had a Draigo in a unit of Paladins with a Warding Stave in combat with some Thundernators. I was hoping that Draigo's 3++ and the 2++ Warding Stave would hold out so the the Thundernators wouldn't smash me. I rolled four failed saving throws for Draigo in a row and I also threw a one for the Warding Stave. After that it was easy pickings for the Thundernators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, our codex was made for 6th, and that gave us some advantages in 5th, but now the playing field is getting leveled and I am rely happy about that :P. People that didn’t give us any slack when we played DH, and started to scream bloody murder when we changed to GK, may get off our backs now ;). The sad thing about Tau though is that I think GW gave them a buff in the making of 6th edition instead of prioritizing the making of a new codex for them. So tau may have moved way down in the pipeline :( I think the lack of C:SM weapons and gears made sense when GK were a little overpowered, now it is getting a serious limitation. C:GK is the only SM codex where model attacking at I1 do not have an invul save better than 4++, and it's only a handfull of IC; most non-IC model has a 5++. The lack of stormshields is illogical "fluff-wise". The better equiped military organization in the Imperium does not have access to a gear reduntant in other Chapters. I planned a game with a friend of mine next week. He will play Space Wolves, do you think my GK will be able to fight them as they did before. I doubt it. I'm not complaining; I'm just analysing facts. I wonder if I'll have to use other armies for highly competitive matches.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3117891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The lack of stormshields is illogical "fluff-wise". The better equiped military organization in the Imperium does not have access to a gear reduntant in other Chapters. because auto gained sword +storm shield would cost less then a staff and for any dude in termy armor would also be better/cheaper then a staff ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3118166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I think the lack of C:SM weapons and gears made sense when GK were a little overpowered, now it is getting a serious limitation. C:GK is the only SM codex where model attacking at I1 do not have an invul save better than 4++, and it's only a handfull of IC; most non-IC model has a 5++. I wouldn't say this is universally true. Standard Terminators strike last and only have a 5++. Power fist armored sergeants have zero invulnerable saves whatsoever unless you buy a combat shield or something really wonky depending on your Codex. Simply because one unit type (assault terminators) can have a hammer and a stormshield does not mean every unit that strikes last should have an invulnerable save similar to it's armor save. We have much greater selection of melee weapon types than other Terminators, kick just as much or more butt, and can still shoot really powerful weaponry (psycannons) while doing so. You don't see squads of Hammer armed assault terminators with 8 str 7 rending shots and 6 stormbolter shots as well. Our Terminators are not inferior, they are simply different. They are a cross between an Assault Terminator and a "tactical" Terminator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3118311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I consider GK termies more like space wolf termies :) It's true we lose out, my normal 1500 point Draigo wing has 4 models with ap2 or lower in close combat now, down from 17 :(. But we also gained increased survivability in close combat against more things, so it's a trade off ( Sure, a squad of paladins will get creamed by a squad of thunder hammer ss termies. Well we did back in 5th too, best tactic is to stand back and shoot them to bits. I'm looking forward to playing 6th properly, With my Draigowing as well as my other armies (nurgle chaos, renegade logan wing and dark eldar). It's a different game, unlike 5th being 4.5, this is the new shiz :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3118345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Tau has had a bit of a buff, and I am very much looking forwards to fielding mine again. Tau were still very much playable in 5th, it was just hard to win. Now they are better, but don't worry, I'm sure GW will nerf us with a new FAQ when they realise what they have done. Which makes them.....garbage. If something is hard to win with across all the matchups, that's basically the definition of garbage. What did they truly gain though? They can shoot Pulse Rifles at 30" on the move? Shield Drones are shield drones, you flood them with wounds as normal and they'll fall. They still lose in assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3118416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 suits dont get IG as easily that was an important change . But I do agree that those changes didnt make them good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3118596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Knights got better if anything. Vehicles easier to kill? Coteaz can still throw down more armour than IG (it gets stupid at 2k, with 12 Troops slots that can be filled), PsyDreads love glancing tanks to death Lower cover? We're MeQ's, our TDA and PA is relevant again AP in combat? Terminators and Paladins can now kill 90% of things that deny their armour save (very few MC's or IC's have both AP2 and I7 in combat), and challenge out squad powerfists with the Justicar/any Paladin. 6th edition is the edition of Terminators, make no mistake. More emphases on infantry over tank spam? Our mass anti-infantry shooting is set up for precisely this reason (ie enemy numerical superiority) Psychic hoods nerfed? PsyDreads get even more relevant, with their buff to 'Aegis' now making sense (we get two layers of anti-psyker defense) Melta not an auto-include spam anymore? Yay, plasma guns cost exactly the same on Henchmen, and plasma cannon servitors are pretty brutal too Divination on dirt-cheap Inquisitors and Coteaz, as if they weren't good already What did Tau get? Railguns now kill all armour forever, just like before. Didn't change how expensive Broadsides are, or how easily they are killed/tied up in combat by fast movers Plasma rifles and missile pods are more effective with reduced cover saves, Fireknife was all we took in 5th so no change really Pathfinders stripping cover still works fine, again no change Stealth Suits have 3+ armour default, but really good cover saves now? Gee thanks GW, cos the old stealth field rules were so broken aye...sigh Fire Warriors are still laughably bad, Kroot can't charge from Outflank so they'll just get boltered as they advance Overpriced Devilfish and Piranha only get 5+ cover from disruption pods now, Piranha gets a slight boost with 4+ cover when zipping around Meh Tau will still probably beat Chaos Daemons and Sisters with their mono-build, but they're not going to be consistently beating armies like IG or Knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3118745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Knights got better if anything. Vehicles easier to kill? Coteaz can still throw down more armour than IG (it gets stupid at 2k, with 12 Troops slots that can be filled), PsyDreads love glancing tanks to death Lower cover? We're MeQ's, our TDA and PA is relevant again AP in combat? Terminators and Paladins can now kill 90% of things that deny their armour save (very few MC's or IC's have both AP2 and I7 in combat), and challenge out squad powerfists with the Justicar/any Paladin. 6th edition is the edition of Terminators, make no mistake. More emphases on infantry over tank spam? Our mass anti-infantry shooting is set up for precisely this reason (ie enemy numerical superiority) Psychic hoods nerfed? PsyDreads get even more relevant, with their buff to 'Aegis' now making sense (we get two layers of anti-psyker defense) Melta not an auto-include spam anymore? Yay, plasma guns cost exactly the same on Henchmen, and plasma cannon servitors are pretty brutal too Divination on dirt-cheap Inquisitors and Coteaz, as if they weren't good already Good analysis. I'm glad to read my favorite army is still "holding the line" against its enemies :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3119094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Darius you forgot 4 sniping psycannons in paladins . 5 if someone adds a GM [possible at 2k or more] to the unit or an inq at less then 2k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3119249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Sniping Psycannons? What? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3119470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Directed Shots on characters. All Palaidn are character, all get Directed Shots. Any 6's rolled can be allocated. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256202-my-experience-of-6th-vs-tau/#findComment-3119526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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