Counts As BA with wolves detachment

[Morticon]

So, i was thinking about something today.

 

I'm one of those odd types that's very competitive but also like to retain a semblance of fluff to my army/force.

I wont let Fluff override my decisions most of the time, but I do like it to influence them.

 

Having said that, I was thinking about wolfy allies.

 

 

Now, with my present mind set, I dont see myself using any other type of marine thats not BA.

 

That being said, counts as is totally workable for me.

 

 

With that in mind, and with the Wolfy Staffs not having been FAQed, Im feeling that a Wolf Priest is about the smartest choice for an HQ.

Grey Hunters are also one of the best troops in the game, so there's another easy choice. (And Id love to model my bolters up with combat blades/bayonets.)

 

Then, long fangs with their split fire....I don't know if id go that far but it would be there as an option.

 

So, at minimum: a Rune Priest,

8man Hunters with bling (MG, Cmbi Melta, Fist, banner and PAxe) and a Wolf Guard in a rhino (or even a pod) and boom - you've got GREAT psychic defense and a very hard unit.

 

I think all of this runs at around 350 points.

 

Now, for a killer combat unit, troop and HQ (with access to Divination!!) I think this maaaay potentially form a solid core of my lists.

 

Thoughts?

 

I mean...is there any reason NOT to include a "counts as" contingent like this?

[Sixestohit]

I don't see a reason not to do it. SW are going to be a massively popular choice of allies (oddly a wolf player at my club is now over the moon to be able to include some death company in his list) and so I think we'll be seeing a lot of them.

 

My own allies are all going to be sisters, as they're cheap in points and fairly resilient to fulfil some tasks, but space wolves will probably end up being the mega go to choice.

 

What I would say, is maybe hold off if it involves buying loads of things, as the Dark Angels will probably be the first codex to hit and you never know what they're going to bring to the table! :)

 

Either way I'm sure it'll look awesome!

 

James.

[Ushtarador]

As long as Rune Priest blades are ridiculously overpowered, they will be one of the best ally HQs I guess. :/ Combining that with one of the best troop choices in the game and lolfangs they make an awesome addition indeed.

Fluffwise, I'm thinking about a small GK strike squad myself, arriving on the battlefield to help my BA punish the heretics! But I'm not quite sure what units I would include :)

[dswanick]

Just a note - in order to take a Wolf Guard Pack Leader, you have to take an Elites: Wolf Guard Pack to split them off of. And that means a minimum of three Wolf Guard models to make a valid unit. One naked one can go in a Long Fang pack as an ablative wound, or tricked out with TDA (although you'll need five WG models to give him the Cyclone). But you'll want to have a plan for that third model.

[Drunken Angel]

So, at minimum: a Rune Priest,

8man Hunters with bling (MG, Cmbi Melta, Fist, banner and PAxe) and a Wolf Guard in a rhino (or even a pod) and boom - you've got GREAT psychic defense and a very hard unit.

 

I think all of this runs at around 350 points.

 

I think that combo is excellent. Mark of the Wulfen on a GH could be useful for challenges, who wants to take on a Wulfen?, that leaves the power axe and fist free to wreck havoc on everything else.

 

It was smart of GW to allow allies, I am delighted that allies has happened and hope it gets used more because it has removed all the hassles and cries of cheeese ! bearrdy! and so on how can anyone complain any more if you feel its OP model up and give it back to them?

 

I secretly harbour a burning desire to put a jumpack on a rune preist and take that JOTWW power that drops everything through a crack in the earth with my RAS, In fact I will do it counts as next time I play a space wolves player :)

[dswanick]

So, at minimum: a Rune Priest,

8man Hunters with bling (MG, Cmbi Melta, Fist, banner and PAxe) and a Wolf Guard in a rhino (or even a pod) and boom - you've got GREAT psychic defense and a very hard unit.

 

I think all of this runs at around 350 points.

 

I think that combo is excellent. Mark of the Wulfen on a GH could be useful for challenges, who wants to take on a Wulfen?, that leaves the power axe and fist free to wreck havoc on everything else.

 

It was smart of GW to allow allies, I am delighted that allies has happened and hope it gets used more because it has removed all the hassles and cries of cheeese ! bearrdy! and so on how can anyone complain any more if you feel its OP model up and give it back to them?

 

I secretly harbour an burning desire to put a jumpack on a rune preist and take that JOTWW power that drops everything through a crack in the earth with my RAS, In fact I will do it counts as next time I play a space wolves player :D

A Grey Hunter with Mark of the Wofen isn't a Character, so can't issue or accept challenges.

Also, you can't have both a fist and an axe in the same unit unless one is on a WG Pack Leader, who is a character.

[Drunken Angel]

Im pretty sure Mort had a wolf guard in his list above, so okay on the challenge thing thanks.

[JamesI]

Other than a desire to play Pure BA (or the need for a different ally) I can't see a reason not to do this.

 

Add in Long Fangs and a second GH squad to allow the 3 wolf guard you need somewhere to go.

[Morticon]

Im pretty sure Mort had a wolf guard in his list above, so okay on the challenge thing thanks.

 

 

Defs had a Wolfguard in the list -hence the combi melta.

Probs Axe with the regular squad guy, since they can have mre attacks, then the fist with the WG.

 

James, forgot about 3 WG :D Bugger.

[Daybreak]

I don't see what's "counts as" in here, but I've never understood that term anyways.

 

I've also thought about Wolves as allies too. Rune Priests are better than Librarians, and Grey Hunters are better than Tactical Marines, so the basics are pure upgrades.

 

Heavy support brings long fangs, obviously, which improve on our Devastators.

 

Fast Attack brings Thunderwolf Cavalry, a deathstar that can take out THSS Termies, Paladins, etc. Plus, they're exceptionally mobile, so they can keep up with your BA jumpers.

 

The problems I've encountered in list building are:

1) Wolf Guard. It's nice to upgrade the GH squads, but then you've got to buy a unit of these. I don't know where to put the rest. Termie Armour with CML could make them an okay stand alone unit, but expensive.

2) Rhinos? A couple of tanks really stand out in an infantry list, but it's the best way to carry GH. Maybe drop pods though? Two for GH, one for a Furioso or Sternguard or DC or something?

3) Cost. Not really a problem, but there's just too much good SW stuff. A list of my favourite things would easily hit 4000

 

All in all, it's an ally choioce that I'm really leaning towards, after having seen how awesome Divination really is. I want more psykers, and I want to shut down other psykers.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Do you mean have an army painted up as blood angels, but some units use SW rules? I've thought about doing something like that, but that would be a bit of a pain for my opponents.

[Morticon]

I don't see what's "counts as" in here, but I've never understood that term anyways.

 

The "counts as" term is to describe the situation when you are using something to, quite literally count as something else.

 

In the case above I will not have some Fenrisian numpties ( ;) ) running around the battlefield with my Angels in Red.

Instead I will have specially modeled units that stand out from the rest of the army in the way they are modeled and/or painted -but still looking like BA or fitting within my theme of BA...therefore they are Space Wolf Codex models "counting as" Blood Angels.

[Daybreak]

I don't see what's "counts as" in here, but I've never understood that term anyways.

 

The "counts as" term is to describe the situation when you are using something to, quite literally count as something else.

 

In the case above I will not have some Fenrisian numpties ( ;) ) running around the battlefield with my Angels in Red.

Instead I will have specially modeled units that stand out from the rest of the army in the way they are modeled and/or painted -but still looking like BA or fitting within my theme of BA...therefore they are Space Wolf Codex models "counting as" Blood Angels.

 

Ah okay. Lots of people mean lots of different things by it, and it gets complicated when allies are involved.

 

Personally, I like the look of distinct allies. That makes pure SW appealing to me, but I can see why others want their chapter to look a certain way.

[Morticon]

but that would be a bit of a pain for my opponents.

 

I do get this is a voiced concern online often - I've just never really understood why.

 

I always found that in real life with an opponent's list in your hand, and your opponent telling you "hey, bro - these guys here, in this special rhino with the special weapons are A, not B" that it wouldnt cause any confusion.

 

I mean, if we're able to tell the difference between a Tactical squad in a rhino and a sternguard squad in a rhino, why not another squad with special abilities.

 

May just go down to matters of taste but personally Id much rather prefer a strongly aesthetically themed army than a mish mash of colours and concepts.

[Deschenus Maximus]

I suppose if you make them really easily recognisable, it's fine. But say using two tac squads painted exactly the same, and one is actually a GH squad... well you can see where I would find that confusing.

[Drunken Angel]

How to identify your allied "counts as" space wolves ? Model them with empty cans of dog food around their bases, that should clear things up.

[dswanick]

How to identify your allied "counts as" space wolves ? Model them with empty cans of dog food around their bases, that should clear things up.

Ouch...

[CitadelArmyGuy]

My basic SW-counts as allied 'package'

 

 

 

Runepriest-- potential options: Epistolary, Terminator (5pts cheaper than BA), combiweaps (5pts cheaper than BA)

 

GreyHunters-- potential options: 2xPG, Banner, Droppod

 

Lone Wolf (potential Death Company Terminator 'Loner' conversions)-- options: Terminator, Shield, Chainfist (or TH if you want to use the Space Hulk model...)

 

 

 

 

Other Good Choices:

 

Wolf Guard-- Lots of options here, an interesting one is 33pts each for Terminators (PW/SB).

 

Vindicator-- 30pts cheaper, but no Fast

 

AutoLas Predator-- 15pts cheaper, but no Fast

 

Long Fangs-- ~10pts more expensive but 5 heavy weapons

 

Land Raider in the Heavy Support slot-- extremely mild utility, but interesting since BA can only take LR as Dedicated Transports. Makes them Scoring in Big Guns Never Tire

[Archon Yggrasil]

Land Raider in the Heavy Support slot-- extremely mild utility, but interesting since BA can only take LR as Dedicated Transports. Makes them Scoring in Big Guns Never Tire

 

Just an FYI: Under scoring units in the 6th Ed rulebook, vehicles cannot count as scoring. I don't have my rules in front of me, so unless there's some special rule listed in the 'Big Guns Never Tire' scenario, I'm afraid the LR will not count as scoring. Also, I'm not sure if Allied units can ever count as scoring; worth checking out.

 

-Yggrasil

[Judaz]

I am also thinking of including SW as allies for my angels. But as most of you, I don't want dogs running around sniffing everything, so I'll also go with counts as. My BA's are defending their homeworld with the help of many successor chapters, so fluffwise it's easy to include allies. Was thinking about doing my own chapter, Silent Angels or Psychic Angels (Psycho Angels?) that are founded with the idea of battling Daemons and because of that they have more psykers than usual.

 

Rune priests are great psykers with Divination or even some SW powers, and I can get four of them if I want to! Plus my own 2 libbys and that Librarian Dreadnought. 7 psykers. I like that. Eldars would love to face that too :P

 

Also had GK allied Librarian in mind, with a unit of Termies. We'll see how I'll do it. Too bad the IG psyker battle squad don't come in plastic...

[Daybreak]

Land Raider in the Heavy Support slot-- extremely mild utility, but interesting since BA can only take LR as Dedicated Transports. Makes them Scoring in Big Guns Never Tire

 

Just an FYI: Under scoring units in the 6th Ed rulebook, vehicles cannot count as scoring. I don't have my rules in front of me, so unless there's some special rule listed in the 'Big Guns Never Tire' scenario, I'm afraid the LR will not count as scoring. Also, I'm not sure if Allied units can ever count as scoring; worth checking out.

 

-Yggrasil

 

They can score in that mission, thats the whole point.

 

Allied units can indeed also score.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I am also thinking of including SW as allies for my angels. But as most of you, I don't want dogs running around sniffing everything, so I'll also go with counts as. My BA's are defending their homeworld with the help of many successor chapters, so fluffwise it's easy to include allies. Was thinking about doing my own chapter, Silent Angels or Psychic Angels (Psycho Angels?) that are founded with the idea of battling Daemons and because of that they have more psykers than usual.

 

Rune priests are great psykers with Divination or even some SW powers, and I can get four of them if I want to! Plus my own 2 libbys and that Librarian Dreadnought. 7 psykers. I like that. Eldars would love to face that too :P

 

Also had GK allied Librarian in mind, with a unit of Termies. We'll see how I'll do it. Too bad the IG psyker battle squad don't come in plastic...

 

 

Love the idea, fun and interesting-- not sure if after all those Psykers you'll have enough conventional forces to do any real fighting or scoring though, but like I said, a fun looking idea!

 

Just be careful--- one Farseer w/Runes of Warding and you're gonna have a bad time.

[dswanick]

I can get four of them if I want to! Plus my own 2 libbys and that Librarian Dreadnought. 7 psykers. I like that.

Planning a 2,000pt+ list, are you?

[Judaz]

I can get four of them if I want to! Plus my own 2 libbys and that Librarian Dreadnought. 7 psykers. I like that.

Planning a 2,000pt+ list, are you?

 

No, just got carried away reading the cheesy SW codex. Only 1 HQ of allies of course, only 5 psykers. But since I want to build another Dreadnought, I might as well plan for 2500pts with 4 BA libbys, 2 SW libbys and 2 Librarian Dreads! ;)

 

 

And CitadelArmyGuy, I was planning on taking lots of Dreadnougths and 20-30 DC. So I won't be winning many games anyway ;)

 

 

Edited: SW can still take 2 HQ's. It was late and I'm a bit retarded.

[Bonzi]

I don't see what's "counts as" in here, but I've never understood that term anyways.

 

I've also thought about Wolves as allies too. Rune Priests are better than Librarians, and Grey Hunters are better than Tactical Marines, so the basics are pure upgrades.

 

Heavy support brings long fangs, obviously, which improve on our Devastators.

 

Fast Attack brings Thunderwolf Cavalry, a deathstar that can take out THSS Termies, Paladins, etc. Plus, they're exceptionally mobile, so they can keep up with your BA jumpers.

 

The problems I've encountered in list building are:

1) Wolf Guard. It's nice to upgrade the GH squads, but then you've got to buy a unit of these. I don't know where to put the rest. Termie Armour with CML could make them an okay stand alone unit, but expensive.

2) Rhinos? A couple of tanks really stand out in an infantry list, but it's the best way to carry GH. Maybe drop pods though? Two for GH, one for a Furioso or Sternguard or DC or something?

3) Cost. Not really a problem, but there's just too much good SW stuff. A list of my favourite things would easily hit 4000

 

All in all, it's an ally choioce that I'm really leaning towards, after having seen how awesome Divination really is. I want more psykers, and I want to shut down other psykers.

 

At what point do you just admit you are playing SW with BA allies?