dswanick Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 - +1 Charge Bonus : Engaged models that charged this turn get +1 Attack this turn. Remember that models in units that made a Disordered Charge (see page 27) do not get this bonus. Disordered ChargeIf a unit declares that it is charging multiple units, its charge is disordered. A unit making a Disordered Charge does not gain the +1 Charge Bonus to its number of Attacks usually gained from a charge. RageIn a turn in which a model with this special rule charges into combat, it gains +2 Attacks for charging, rather than +1. A model that has made a Disordered Charge that turn receives no benefit from Rage (see page 27). So a Disordered Charge denies the benefits of +1 Attacks for the basic Charge Bonus rule, as well as the +2 Attacks for the Rage rule. Berserk Charge: Blood Claws are famed for delivering headlong charges. They receive a bonus +2 Attacks when they charge rather than the normal + 1. Note that this doesnot apply to other models that may have joined the pack. This bonus may not be claimed when launching a counterattack even Blood Claws aren't that fast! But Berserk Charge has no such restriction (having been written for 5th Edition, before the concept of Disordered Charge was written into the rules). Is there any RAW prohibition on claiming a +2A on a Blood Claw (Sky Claw or Swift Claw) pack which charges multiple units? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'd say no. Berserk Charge states "rather than the normal +1," and I believe that Defensive Grenades also negated the effects of Berserk Charge. As it is, it's really a special rule that modifies the Charge Bonus rule, rather that replaces it - so I wouldn't argue for the +2A on multiple assaults. That said, it would be nice... give Blood Claws a role again! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3117912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 5e was also plagued by that kind of ambiguous wording - see also Ragnar's +D3 attack bonus thing. I think the clear RAI is that any bonus attacks are lost. (I wish they had just said that) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3117975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Blood Claws receive +2 when they charge, rather than the normal +1. You get +1 if X and Y happen. If you don't get +1, how can you get +2 "instead of the normal +1"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 If you don't get +1, how can you get +2 "instead of the normal +1"? Because I read "They receive a bonus +2 Attacks when they charge rather than the normal +1" as prohibiting them stacking not "They receive a bonus +2 Attacks when they charge rather than the normal +1, if and only if they would receive the +1"? The only actual (R.A.W.) prohibition I see on receivin the +2 is "This bonus may not be claimed when launching a counterattack". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 they are receiving the +2 instead of the +1 which you have established yourself DS. however, with disordered charge i can see three possible trains of thought.. A. Because the +2 is a charge bonus, you lose it in the entirety due to disordered charge rules. B. You get +2 attacks because its not specifically mentioned in the disordered charge rules. C. You only get +1 attack due to simple maths. ie +2 attacks minus the -1 attack modifier = +1 attack. Now A is obviously the logical way and how the rules were probably intended to be played and how most people will assume it should be played. This is probably the best option if you want to keep having people to play. Then there is B, if you make a good argument for this version of the rules and your opponent can't find evidence against it then sure go ahead. You will probably have people wanting to play with you less and less but at least it will be fun right.. at first? :) C. Probably the best option as it is a simple compromise giving your blood claws an advantage but not as strong a bonus as before that will make your opponent at least appreciate your effort in not loop holing and more likely to accept this method. 6th is all about cinematic combat and what is more cinematic than a horde of crazy blood thirsty blood claws running at you trying to earn personal glory?... oh right Khorne berserks or blood crushers or hordes of orcs or genestealers... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I would agree with how Octavulg has read it. I can see that you could say 'BC do not receive a bonus that is specifically stated as being ignored by a disorderly charge therefore they get the +2' but I wouldn't have read it that way :( BC receive a better charge bonus, not a different charge bonus. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Because I read "They receive a bonus +2 Attacks when they charge rather than the normal +1" as prohibiting them stacking not "They receive a bonus +2 Attacks when they charge rather than the normal +1, if and only if they would receive the +1"? The only actual (R.A.W.) prohibition I see on receivin the +2 is "This bonus may not be claimed when launching a counterattack". Except if you wanted to convey that interpretation, you'd say "They receive a bonus +2 attacks whenever they charge. This does not stack with the normal +1." or "They receive a bonus +2 attacks whenever they charge. Blood Claws do not receive the usual +1 attacks for charging." Of course, I tend to lean toward RAI, so I'm clearly a madman. :) :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 If you don't get +1, how can you get +2 "instead of the normal +1"? Because I read "They receive a bonus +2 Attacks when they charge rather than the normal +1" as prohibiting them stacking not "They receive a bonus +2 Attacks when they charge rather than the normal +1, if and only if they would receive the +1"? The only actual (R.A.W.) prohibition I see on receivin the +2 is "This bonus may not be claimed when launching a counterattack". I would call this wishful thinking my friend. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 just give a unit of BC jump packs Thats 5-10 I10 hits, + 10-40 normal hits (based on units between 5-10 BCs) For an assault unit thats pretty good, 25 attacks from a none elite, none maxed out unit is pretty respectable, up to 50 attacks for the full unit. dont bother with multi charging :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 just give a unit of BC jump packs you mean skyclaws? :) 3 pts for a jump pack. also the the fact the one of them can have motw is cool too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 blah silly double post shenagians Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
narf Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 aye 1 can have MotW, one can have an Axe (4 ap2 attacks) and they can be led by a WP (preffered enemy) all for quite a decent price, but far more useful than they were 2 weeks ago :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik84 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 is this not in the FAQ? i'll go and check Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 is this not in the FAQ? i'll go and check Not that I can find, that's why I'm hoping someone else can spot the clear R.A.W. prohibition that I'm surely missing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256217-are-our-blood-claws-the-masters-of-the-disordered-charge/#findComment-3118761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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