Captain Rolunde Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Ok I am no rules expert, I'm not up much on either 5th or especially 6th (looking to kick things up with 6th but I want to wait and get the smaller rulebook from the box set whenever it comes out. I remember reading a post in one of the many different power weapon discussions a few days ago that mentioned the idea taking some kind of Assault Troops and including Power Spears (lances) with them and using hit and run tactics to keep the Spear bonus up. Seeing some great Minotaurs around here I was thinking it would be pretty cool to build a force that makes use of that idea with some cool modded up figs, combing the chest pieces of the Sanguinary Guard with spears and shield, etc and other cool bits to make them look very Greek/Minion Minotaur styled. Probably use the Puppetwars Bull Head Shoulder Pads, maybe some Scibor Shields. Rules wise, what would be the best way to go about this? Blood Angels; C:SM, Honor Guard, Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, Wolf Guard; some Special Character needed to make this happen? It seemed the idea was you could jump into Assault, getting the Spear bonus, get out of combat when it is gone, and then later re-engage for the bonus. Thanks for any help guys! Hope this isn't just some crazy half cocked idea. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Only way I can see to do it is to ally in Zahndrek to gain his ability to grant Hit and Run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Or Dante counts-as, with Spear-wielding honour guard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Rolunde Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Ah, Dante and an Honour Guard sounds familiar, it must have been on the BA section I first ran into this idea then. ;-) So then could this Counts As be gotten in another Marine army via the use of Allies then? Granted it looks like it could simply be done with an entire Counts as BA list in the first place. And then... does it seem like the kind of thing that could actually succeed? How best to fit a Counts As Dante-w/Honor Guard into a list also using the Asterion Moloc model as a Counts As Captain in TDA with Relic Blade and SS? I guess one will have to be Allied into the others list? I suppose I could make "Moloc' a Librarian in TDA and count his spear as a Force Weapon? (I don't have the BA Codex, can their Libs take a SS?) I guess if this is going to count too much on the Blood Angels to make it happen I may need to have the talk moved over there? Can I find more reasons to use question marks? - If it is possible to pull it off using Zahndrekh I guess that could be something to consider, painted "Automatons" in the same colors as the Minotaurs to tie it all together. Fluff wise they could be heavy conversion cyborgs since Astartes totally hate AIs. :) Maybe something from the Legio Cybernetica. Thanks all for the help so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottimus Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Kor'sarro khan on a bike with a biker command squad. furious charge + spears anyone? st 6!, hit and run, toughness 5, fnp... company champion? Hammer of wrath? all of the above.... all over your face!. Do bikes get +1 attack for 2 cc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadron Ka'sel Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 This was something i was talking about ove in the BA forum, i was intending to use DC because they would get +2 str on the charge because of furious charge i think it is. I was planning on sticking Dante with them for hit and run and now its been mentioned alot possibly adding a divi libby to bolster the unit further (considering this because of the extra hq given by allies) Originaly i wanted to do this with sang guard but its still unclear exactly what Glaives fall under rule wise, hence why i shifted to dc. Ko'sarro (not spelt correctly im sure) with a comman squad on bikes is looking plane evil, plus you get toughness and fnp from the apoth i believe. What i will be very interested to see is what happens with Raven wing bikes come DA being redone. Especially with all their mounted knight themes going on. So currently, i believe, the best units for lances currently are DC with Dante, and Ko'sarro command squad. Unless i've missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Some day I'd like to see someone convert a full unit of Sanguinary Guard who actually carry glaives. That would be pretty awesome. I haven't seen anything to claim that bikers can't get the 2ccw bonus. I will just remind everyone that Hammer of Wraith is a single attack at the model's strength score with AP-, and does not include bonusses for any weapons the hammerer may be wielding (although if anything was to make an exception to that, it should be spears). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Rolunde Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Hmm... the bikes sound interesting and the T5 ought to be a pretty nice for upping their survivability. And yeah, looking around the BA forum, it almost looks like Dante and the SG are practically toxic right now until GW puts out clearly indisputable black and white bold print details to settle all the back and forth that seems to be going on about their weapons. =p If possible I'd like to be able to weapon swap Dante's axe for a sword, but it's doubtful and no need to start up the discussion on that right here right now. :P Same goes for the Glaives if they can be spears or not... So we've got Blood Angel based Dante and SG or DC. (With the chance to add a Libby and or Priest). or Codex based Kor'sarro khan on a bike with a biker command squad. Hmmm... I guess I could try and get tricky on the model build so the legs and back packs could be swapped out and then they could go either way and pair up with the appropriate character to make it work. Seeing as the new starter box ought to come with the biker parts I'd be needing it could actually work, heh. Although I guess the bikes would need different arms too, so then... I'd have to build both! haha. Seems this idea is just in danger of pretty much filling out and defining an entire army. ;-) Noe: I changed the title as it seems to have grown a bit from just the idea of an "Assault Squad with Spears" into what might be the "best way" to do "Hit and Run with Spears". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Sharp Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Khan doesn't need to be on a bike to grant Hit and Run. While it's less useful on foot, you could easily run Khan, Moloc, and a Command squad outfitted with spears in a Land Raider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Rolunde Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Khan not on a bike?! That just seems so... wrong. ;-) But then if Khan is not really being "Khan" what's the difference, eh?! Hit and Run does seem like it would work best with any extra bit of movement that could be squeezed out of being on Bikes or Jump Packs though. Regardless it is good to know that there appears to be at least that one more option on how to make it work. Options are good, and if your enemy doesn't know which one you're going to show up with, it'll keep them guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottimus Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Surely Khan on a bike is most natural? He's a white scar! Born in the saddle! With bikes you also get Hammer of Wrath remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Rolunde Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Well the Jumpers have some Hammer of Wrath opportunity as well, BUT it does seem to me that the bikes actually make them "more shooty" as well. There could be occasions where that extra bit of ranged fire power could make a difference. (Failed saves are failed saves after all.) So extra Toughness and a bit more dakka, plus reliable HoW hits, pretty good combo over all there. For myself, at some point I might have to go overboard and do an <Allied Counts As> force with both Dante and his Jumpers (once their rules are all sorted out) and Khan and his Squad. Just for fun I could try and squeeze not-Moloc and a squad of Terminators and a Land Raider in there too. Maybe not a Tournament worthy list, but it could be amusing otherwise. :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian of the Rage Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The jump pack captain in ia 9 confers hit&run to his unit, grants jps to the command squad and makes assault/vanguard units scoring. He might also form the basis for this? Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Rolunde Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 The jump pack captain in ia 9 confers hit&run to his unit, grants jps to the command squad and makes assault/vanguard units scoring. He might also form the basis for this? Cheers, Good to know, being able to use another jumper besides Dante could free things (like points) up a little. Access to a Relic Blade that way too, eh? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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