Dark Angels Anti-Air

[Unforgiven2544]

Good Afternoon All,

Since there is likely going to be a surge in the amount of flyers we will be facing, I was wondering how you propose we deal with them.

 

I know that forge world has the Hyperios weapon platforms, with a radar and 1-3 missile platforms as a single choice. I think their points cost is close to what we would be paying for a Aegis Defense line with a single weapon. Also, if I remember correctly, they currently take up a heavy slot, so we could get both the Hyperios platforms AND an Aegis defense line.

 

I am not exactly fond of the aesthetic of the quad gun. It looks all right I guess, but I like the look of the missile pods better. I am also thinking about taking the whirlwind turret (with the multitude of mini missiles) in place of the quad gun. But while I know that they will fit.. I am leery of the scale. Would the missile pods from the whirlwind look out of place on the raised "Emplacement Block" that comes with the anti-air defences in the Aegis Defense Line?

 

Icarus lasers look fine, and very turret-like. They can still target ground targets, correct? I totally imagine them targeting incoming speeders and maybe even some inbound tanks.

 

Very Respectfully,

--Unforgiven

[Ajax Tlamunus]

The Hyperios Platfrom package costs between 45 and 150 points, depending on how many of the launchers you take. This is my prefered source of ack-ack, and not just because I've owned a set for a decade, but because the amount of coverage they give is amazing. Each platform must be placed within 36" of the command platform, that's the only limit, which means you can saturate an area or spreadout nice and far.

[CAM77]

If I were using FW models to provide anti-air, I would go with a couple of mortis contemptors with twin kheres assault cannons and cyclone missiles. The mortis contemptor when stationary gets skyfire and intercept so it is awesome for blasting flyers as well as other things that deepstrike out of reserves, and it is still pretty sturdy thanks to AV13 and its 5++ shielding. Only disadvantage is the cost, this comes in at about 220 each I think, but the high volume of fire it puts out might be worth it.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I just ordered a Relic Contemptor with 2xTLLC and CML, on the chance FW get allowed (I'm not big on tourneys anyway and my mates are cool with it unless they are using me as prep).

And I really needed a third dread to support my DW dudes ;) even if dreads did get a nurfing for this edition.

 

Back to painting my vow...

 

s

[Pyro X]

I'd say the contemptor Mortis pattern dreadnaught would be the best one out there. 12 str 6 rending shots, 2 krak missiles at BS 5 and if it doesn't move it can shoot at fliers at normal BS.

plus it has a 5+ cover, 6++ in melee.

[Ajax Tlamunus]

Of course, a Mortis Contemptor with Cyclone is going to run you about £55.00 ($85.00). The Hyperios system is £17.00 for the command platform and £21.00 each for the launchers... although it would be a lot easer to kit bash the launch platforms with Whirlwind bitz than to attempt to do any sort of kitbashing of the Contemptor.

 

I still hope the standard Mark V Mortis Dreadnought can get flakk missile arms, I like the Contemptor alot, but told slab-sided sarcophagus-faced is my personal favorite. Its just so... so... Imperial.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Of course, a Mortis Contemptor with Cyclone is going to run you about £55.00 ($85.00). The Hyperios system is £17.00 for the command platform and £21.00 each for the launchers... although it would be a lot easer to kit bash the launch platforms with Whirlwind bitz than to attempt to do any sort of kitbashing of the Contemptor.

 

I still hope the standard Mark V Mortis Dreadnought can get flakk missile arms, I like the Contemptor alot, but told slab-sided sarcophagus-faced is my personal favorite. Its just so... so... Imperial.

 

Hi Ajax,

 

101Quid for 4x S8, range 48"(but can only shoot at aircraft that fly within 36"WTH???), BS2(might as well not have skyfire and is what has put me off buying them for ages, is there a FAQ to BS4 anywhere?) shooting at multiple targets that can all be stopped by a single glance on the AV10/10/10 command platform.

Summary:Poor mid range shooting, good coverage, poor choice of targets, feeble in defence, cheap in points, expensive in dosh, look COOL.

 

Vs.

 

52.5 or 54.5(Relic version)Quid for: 2xS9 twin-linked and 2xS8, range 48", BS5 shots at only one target per turn on a AV13/12/11 with 5++ chassis that has interceptor(priceless).

Summary: Great LR shooting, poor coverage, good choice of targets, reasonably hard to kill(grrr hull points grrr), expensive in points, reasonable in dosh, looks a bit silly but can look cool at times.

 

Tough choice as the dread can shoot at non aircraft too but cost twice as many points before extra armour etc. looks like a trash can on Tau legs. BUT and it's a big BUTT, unless the Hyperios get a bit of a buff in the new IAA book (which I just added to my order so I can see if FW is going to suck even moar dosh from my wallet over the next few months :lol: ) I'd go with a Mortis trashbintau with long ranged weapons. The Kheres ACs are great but I'd like to stop the flyers before they deliver their deathstars onto my doorstep.

 

What makes the decision even harder is that they both take up a HS slot and will occasionally compete with my DW Land-Raider variants(I'm a devout tread head). Maybe the local P.D.F. will lend us some Hydra Flak Tanks as Allies to appease both needs. :P And there are already rules allowing a Sqn of these ;) .

 

Different strokes for different folks though I guess.

 

For the record, the looks of the Dread are growing on me the more cool models I see, esp. the Relic one...cool. I'm still totally with you on the slabbies, bestest ever dread look, hope the mortis gets skyfire too(doubt it though).

 

2c

s ;)

[Ajax Tlamunus]

The 48" range and 36" engagement window made sense under Forgeworld's original Flyer rules; an aircraft did all of its movement in one go, outside of the regular phases, so it was possible to move past multiple launcher platforms. Each one would shoot independent of the others, as long as the flight path had brought it within 36" but no more than 48", of a launcher... Learning how to best place the platforms was something of an art.

 

Now, like I said, I've had my platforms for close to ten years, so I'm naturally inclined to use them in regular games. Finally! If I were to get something new today, it'd probably be the Contemptor... Although, I think the Land Raider Helios is a good choice for a mechanized Deathwing army (AV14, lascannon sponsons, and the ability to manuvre with the other Raiders. I just can't figure out how to best use its 6-man/3-termie capacity.)

[Haranin]

leaning to the contemptor myself

[Interrogator Stobz]

I was looking at a LR Helios too but can't see skyfire in their rules, WW missiles are not useful for AA, and yup the 6 Tpt capacity kills it as an option.

 

stobz

[Ajax Tlamunus]

I was looking at a LR Helios too but can't see skyfire in their rules, WW missiles are not useful for AA, and yup the 6 Tpt capacity kills it as an option.

 

The Land Raider Helios can replace its standard Whirlwind Missle Launcher with a Hyperios Missile Launcher, turning it into an air defense vehicle, per the rules from Imperial Armour Apocalypse II Although the Land Raider mounted verision of the Hyperios weapon isn't mentioned in Forgeworld's Sixth Edition update sheet, I think your opponent woul dhave to be a pretty poor sport not to recognize that it should use the line from the Whirlwind Hyperios... giving it Skyfire and Interceptor!

 

Since the Helios can be readily converted from a standard Land Raider Phobos (aka Godhammer) with a pair of turret swaps, I'm going to end up using one eventually. There are probably better choices for ack-ack by raw numbers, but it just seems like something that needs Deathwing players to put their minds to figuring out the best use.

[Brother Baphomet]

I was looking at a LR Helios too but can't see skyfire in their rules, WW missiles are not useful for AA, and yup the 6 Tpt capacity kills it as an option.

 

The Land Raider Helios can replace its standard Whirlwind Missle Launcher with a Hyperios Missile Launcher, turning it into an air defense vehicle, per the rules from Imperial Armour Apocalypse II Although the Land Raider mounted verision of the Hyperios weapon isn't mentioned in Forgeworld's Sixth Edition update sheet, I think your opponent woul dhave to be a pretty poor sport not to recognize that it should use the line from the Whirlwind Hyperios... giving it Skyfire and Interceptor!

 

Since the Helios can be readily converted from a standard Land Raider Phobos (aka Godhammer) with a pair of turret swaps, I'm going to end up using one eventually. There are probably better choices for ack-ack by raw numbers, but it just seems like something that needs Deathwing players to put their minds to figuring out the best use.

I think the reason why the Hyperios Launcher isn't mentioned in the 6thEd FW Update is because the option to swap it was taken out in the Imperial Armour 2 FAQ (can't seem to find it on FW's site now :D )

Also, regarding Mortis Contemptors, I wanted three of them but couldn't justify forking out the 150+ quid. However, I spent just over 30 quid on three Dystopian Wars Prussian Empire Metzger Robots (which stand taller than a standard dread), and I'll kitbash the Kheres AC's from spare bits in the Ravenwing box. :lol:

[Ajax Tlamunus]

I think the reason why the Hyperios Launcher isn't mentioned in the 6thEd FW Update is because the option to swap it was taken out in the Imperial Armour 2 FAQ (can't seem to find it on FW's site now :D )

 

Can you point me to a link for that? Not that I doubt you, but I'd like to see it in writing before I do (or do not) shell out the cash.

[Brother Baphomet]

Can you point me to a link for that? Not that I doubt you, but I'd like to see it in writing before I do (or do not) shell out the cash.

The link isn't on FW's site anymore, but I've PM'd you.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Aha, that explains it. I only use the FAQ/Update as I didn't buy IA2 :huh: I hope what you say is correct although FAQ beats Book usually. I also hope that one day FW will update all the old books so they are worth buying. I was broke when it came out, now I'm more flush but won't buy an out of date product.

 

If it's usable and as you say conversions are easy as pie, I'd say load a termie libby into it to use the 'new' powers. If a mix of wings are in order then a 5 man vet squad with a PA character (Zeke?) might work too.

 

stobz

 

EDIT: Misread, the new rules for the LR Helios are in IAA2 not IA2 as I first thought (facepalms), cheers Ajax. I just checked a friends copy, the 6 man Tpt capacity is still a bummer though.

 

OT: Unforgiven2544, swapping out the quad guns for AA rocket launchers would look very cool- (as long as your opponent is not a WYSIWYG Nazi ;) )

[Dark_Master]

Tempted by a Mortis Contemptor Dread myself.

 

If the forgeworld legal gets sorted out!

 

Regards

 

DM

[Ajax Tlamunus]

Sigh. This is the meme that would. not. die. All of the Forgeworld books currently in print (i.e, the hardbound ones) are "legal" in standard games. They have not had any of that silly "opponent's permission" or "chapter approved" language in them in nigh on a decade. You will not find a scrap of text anywhere in the core rulebook or any supplement that even hints at this.

[Haranin]

There is a difference between legal for standard games and accepted for standard games.

 

The perception is that FW is not for normal play unless specifically agreed to. It might be incorrect... but ultimately wargaming with someone other then yourself is a social contract.

 

FW and GW might view FW as acceptable in normal games. For most people in the US, that isn't in the social contract. The social contract most agree on is that FW needs to be explicitly accepted or you should refrain.

 

People are looking for GW to push it into the normal rules in black and white so the default social contract is allowed, with people who don't want it having to assert that.

 

No different then feast of blades going 1999+1 points to limit people to one FOC.

 

From a practical pov, I don't think many lists will be able to capitalize on double FOC effectively; building a good list and then cramming in the second requirements will be tough for most lists.

 

That being said, I think FW is overall balanced. If nothing else, local comp can adjust the worst of the abuses.

[Ajax Tlamunus]

The "social contract" argument is valid, but the fact that a majority of people repeating and spreading the meme only do so because "my freind said...," "the guy at the shop said...," or "I read on teh internetz," is most of what keeps Forgeworld relegated to the metaphorical gaming ghetto. Everytime I've been able to get someone to sit down and read one of my Imperial Armour and compare and contrast it with the mainstream codices? The reaction is almost always "Huh. So what's all the fuss about."

 

Armoured Battlegroup is just C:IG with wonky force org, up to two tanks with BS4, and far less ability to handle objectives. Elysian Drop Troops is just C:IG with lighter vehicles, fewer infantry, and variant weapon loadouts. Deathkorps is C:IG with variant weapon loadouts. The Ork Mek list is Codex: Orks with a wonky force org and less infantry. Tyrant's Legion, Space Marine seige army, and the various special characters from the Badab War are just C:SM with some force org tweaks.

 

Most of the "new" tanks are just simple turret swaps, some swap multiple turrets. Big freaking deal.

 

Yeah, I can't play this game by myself. But I'm a Forgeworld advocate, because the more variaty and more options we all have for our toy soliders can only improve the game.