Salamander Bob Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Hello Brothers and Chaos Scum, i have a little Question about the 6th Edition. When the transport vehicle in the enemys turn is destroyed, what can the passenges in their turn do? Can they make a normal move (and charging) or not? And what is about a Assault Vehicle? see this in the Page 33, 78-80 and 426. Thx, Bob. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'll wait for further chimes here, but I saw elsewhere some discussion on whether a unit that had to disembark from a wreck or explodes result in their opponent's turn could then assault their turn (if not pinned) - some were saying no as worded. I looked at the rules and I interpret the language currently to mean "that turn" not the next player turn. Reason for this to be in the BRB seems to be the potential for a vehicle to become wrecked during your own movement phase (from any sort of enemy action or a new terrain effect that occurs in your movement phase), that would then keep you from assaulting during your own/same assault phase out of a assault vehicle that would otherwise allow you to do so. May need to cross reference back to effects that could remove "that last hull point" during your own movement phase....to get an idea of what the developers were trying to establish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3119113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 It doesn't matter what turn your transport gets killed on, unfortunately: Disembarkation Restrictions (p.79) "After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved, or choose to Run in their subsequent Shooting phase, but cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase." Units in Assault Vehicles are fine and can do whatever they want. Everyone else is out of luck for either one player turn or three :( . Ouch, that bites the big one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3119118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I guess that it ensures that getting your transport destroyed isn't a good thing for you! I'd have visions of Rhino's loitering waiting to get shot... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3119260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 It doesn't matter what turn your transport gets killed on, unfortunately: Disembarkation Restrictions (p.79) "After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved, or choose to Run in their subsequent Shooting phase, but cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase." Units in Assault Vehicles are fine and can do whatever they want. Everyone else is out of luck for either one player turn or three ^_^ . Ouch, that bites the big one! I really don't think that's what is meant/intended by "subsequent." By that logic, you would be okay if your transport suffered an Explodes! result because in then you do not "Disembark." The text for Explodes doesn't mention doing a "Disembark" so that means you can Assault the turn after your transport blows up, but not after it was wrecked? That doesn't make sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3119556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedrenael Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If you can blow your own vehicle up to get the charge I would do it =] Just saying Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3119870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 It doesn't matter what turn your transport gets killed on, unfortunately: Disembarkation Restrictions (p.79) "After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved, or choose to Run in their subsequent Shooting phase, but cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase." Units in Assault Vehicles are fine and can do whatever they want. Everyone else is out of luck for either one player turn or three :) . Ouch, that bites the big one! I really don't think that's what is meant/intended by "subsequent." By that logic, you would be okay if your transport suffered an Explodes! result because in then you do not "Disembark." The text for Explodes doesn't mention doing a "Disembark" so that means you can Assault the turn after your transport blows up, but not after it was wrecked? That doesn't make sense. Whether or not they meant exploding vehicles to be better for the occupants than wrecked ones, I don't think there is any doubt over the wording here. It is very clear and "their subsequent Assault phase" really has only one possible interpretation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3119878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDunc Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 This may fix the Explodes loophole. BGB, pg78: EMBARKING AND DISEMBARKING "However, they can embark and then be forced to disembark if their Transport is destroyed." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3120848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Also, the table 'Transport Vehicles and their Passengers' on p426 has under Explodes ...must disembark, but is limited to a 3" move, then take a Pinning test. Seems that they managed to close that loophole pretty good actually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 This just sounds totally stupid. But thems the breaks. Your vehicle gets munched you can't assault unless you got no roof to begin with or a big mouth at the front. Found this one out because someone tried to cheat this kid playing his first game with the stores borrowed models, saying he can act normal while making a an extra 3 inch movement then plasma pistoling his termies to kill his abby down on one wound, this was after driving in circles to bombard the pore kid with two rhinos full of plasma pistol RAS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDunc Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Also, the table 'Transport Vehicles and their Passengers' on p426 has under Explodes...must disembark, but is limited to a 3" move, then take a Pinning test. Seems that they managed to close that loophole pretty good actually. Good catch. At first glance p426 would appear to conflict with Explodes on p80, but I don't think that's the case. Explosions result in the passengers taking hits, being placed within the vehicles debris, and then an optional 3" move. But no assaulting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salamander Bob Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hm... thats they reason i say: Page 33, 78-80 and 426... ^_^ What about Assault Vehicle? When the enemy destroyed a assault vehicle in his turn? So i can't assaulting in my turn? Because they said "but cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase."? Let's think a step further: The Vehicle is destroyd by shooting from the Enemy. The Unit disembark 3". The Enemy charge the disembarked unit, but the enemy losing and fall back. So, the disembarked unit make an consolidation move and is now 4" - 9" away from the destroyed vehicle. In the next Turn, the unit can't make a charge? I should think that GW do not tell us so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Nah, under the Assault Vehicle special rule it states Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so, even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed. So you're good to go with Land Raiders and other such fun vehicles. It also helps to confirm that you can't assault after having a normal vehicle exploded from under you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nachocuban Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hm...thats they reason i say: Page 33, 78-80 and 426... :huh: What about Assault Vehicle? When the enemy destroyed a assault vehicle in his turn? So i can't assaulting in my turn? Because they said "but cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase."? Let's think a step further: The Vehicle is destroyd by shooting from the Enemy. The Unit disembark 3". The Enemy charge the disembarked unit, but the enemy losing and fall back. So, the disembarked unit make an consolidation move and is now 4" - 9" away from the destroyed vehicle. In the next Turn, the unit can't make a charge? I should think that GW do not tell us so. I don't have the book with me atm, but I'm fairly certain that if a unit is charged, and is able to fight back, they are returned to 'normal status' I.E. a unit falling back, is charged, and is able to stand and fight, they are now regrouped, and in the next turn, act normally. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Nah, under the Assault Vehicle special rule it states Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so, even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed. So you're good to go with Land Raiders and other such fun vehicles. It also helps to confirm that you can't assault after having a normal vehicle exploded from under you. Actually you can't charge from a wrecked/destroyed assault vehicle. Turn always refers to player turn unless it specifically says Game turn. So the guys in the destroyed assault could charge the turn it was destroyed, which in all likelihood would be the enemies turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 If your vehicle is destroyed in the opponents turn than you may assault in the next turn. EG Page 9: (seems everyone has overlooked this, even though its bold) Whenever a rule refers to 'a turn' it always means 'players turn' unles it specifically refers to a 'game turn' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nicolas Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Spacefrisian I dont think people have forgotten that (or at least when reading this I didnt) But as it was pointed out the wording does state "their subseqseuent assault phase" Though another thought did accure to me while I was typing this... since assault phases have both player fight, is it possible that the wording of "their" be a mistake? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3121923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I'll just put this right here B) Disembarkation Restrictions (p.79)"After disembarking, models can shoot, counting as having moved, or choose to Run in their subsequent Shooting phase, but cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase." Units in Assault Vehicles are fine and can do whatever they want. Everyone else is out of luck for either one player turn or three :D Gets destroyed in either turn and the unit cannot assault, easy peasy. The definition of turn doesn't mean anything when "their subsequent assault phase" is ironclad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3122020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Dunno what you read but i read the op having typed something like this. Player 1, destroys Player 2 transport, unit disembarks in Player 1 his turn. Question was if Player 2 can move and charge in his own turn. wich in turn is an entirely different player turn. So whats all this "you must look at this and that regarding disembark and assault in a single players turn" stuff that isnt realy related to the question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3122087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feste Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Hi Spacefrisian, the reason we're discussing disembarkation is that the rules on wrecked and exploded vehicles say that you must first disembark your vehicle. Whether or not the narrative process is the same, the rules for getting out of an exploded Rhino begin the same as that for getting out of it in your own turn. And in each case, the disembarkation rule states that you cannot assault in your next assault phase, unless your transport has the assault vehicle rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3122974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Guys, gotta res this quick as it came up in a tourney (and very poorly our nationals are making dumb rulings about it as well). There are two issues being discussed here. 1. If a player is forced to disembark from his vehicle after it is destroyed, how soon can the occupants make an assault. 2. Is there a difference between an Explodes result and a Wrecked result. I'll answer 2 quickly because it came up in the tourney as mentioned. pg: 79 Disembarking: "after disembarking....but cannot declare an assault in their subsequent assault phase" pg 80: Wrecked: "The passengers must immediately disembark..." Explodes: "Surviving passengers are placed where the vehicle used to be..." Exploding vehicles make no mention of disembarking at all. Additionally, BigDuncs mention of this: BGB, pg78: EMBARKING AND DISEMBARKING "However, they can embark and then be forced to disembark if their Transport is destroyed." unfortunately does not go far enough to close this loop hole as a wrecked result will satisfy the condition of being "destroyed" and still leaves the "explodes" result up in the air. So, as odd as it seems, there its very, very clear that if your vehicle explodes, you're good to go. Going back to point 1 now, though. There is some debate about "their subsequent assault phase" which confuses me. (The debate- not the rule). The use of "their" is possessive - meaning the assault phase that belongs to the occupants. To me, this clearly means that if you have your vehicle wrecked in the enemy shooting phase, in YOUR next assault phase, you may not charge. So, yes, as noted by others, if you had to have your rhino wrecked and occupants charged, broken and then regrouped, then by RAW you still would not be able to launch an assault. Any contention to these clarifications? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3150364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Nope. 1. It's "their", so they can only assault on the 2nd Assault Phase after their transport was destroyed. If it was "the", then they'd be able to assault in their next turn. Key difference that hits them hard. 2. Yes, there is a difference. Wrecked = no quick assault, Explodes = quick assault. You're not disembarking, you're getting placed. I guess, hope for explosions? I mean, I usually do. Last game my Chimera did more by exploding than by shooting... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3150392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Nope. 1. It's "their", so they can only assault on the 2nd Assault Phase after their transport was destroyed. If it was "the", then they'd be able to assault in their next turn. Key difference that hits them hard. Thats exactly what i said. Their being possessive, being the owning turn of theirs. As opposed to an assault phase they take part in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3150398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpnightsend Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Well Morticon pretty much closed this argument up, but does anyone feel this isnt RAI? They way we interpretted it (and are hoping the way it was supposed to work) was if your vehicle i destroyed in any ways (wrecked or blew up) you can't assault in your following turn. If it was an assault vehicle you can. i understand RAW is different but it all feels to me like a case of improper wording. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3150444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDunc Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Pg426, Explodes line within the chart at the bottom of the page, says "...must disembark..." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256313-destroyed-transport-vehicle/#findComment-3150463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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