Space Wolf Allies

[L30n1d4s]

After Grey Knights, SWs are my next favorite chapter of the Adaptes Astartes, so both for perssonal and gameplay reasons, I have been looking how to make a solid, competitive army with GKs as the primary detachment and SWs in and allied detachment.

 

What I am thinking is to have a " core" of GK Terminators (a very solid Troop choice) backed up by SW elements that compliment the Termies and provide some balance to potential GK weaknesses.

 

Starting with the GK core:

-2 x Ordos Xenos Inquisitors with Rad grenades, PML(1) (use Divination to get Prescience) -- 140

-2 x 10 GK Terminators with 2 Psycannons, BHB -- 950

-1 x Psyfleman Dread -- 135

 

Total - 1225

 

Now, adding SW allied detatchment:

-1 x Wolf Lord with Thunderwolf, TH, SS, Runic Armor, WTT, Saga of the Warrior Born -- 265

-1 x 10 Grey Hunters with 2 PGs, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod -- 205

-1 x 5 Thunderwolf Cavalry with 1 PF, 1 SS -- 305

 

Total - 775

 

So, the GK Termies provide solid scoring "anvil" units that can shoot and, thanks to their Inquisitors, do well in CC too. The Dreanought provides mobile fire support and provides reinforced Aegis to the GK units. The Grey Hunters provide another solid scoring unit that can be dropped in to put pressure on an enemy or add extra short range firepower. The WL and cavalry are obviously the "hammer" unit to work in conjunction with the Terminators.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Why don't field a Wolf Lord on Thuderwolf instead of on bike?

He can join your unit of Thuderwolves, he still get +1 T and also +1S. Beside right now he is the only model on bike, thus the only model with a "special movement".

Saga of the Bear is consider a better investment over Saga of the Warrior Born.

 

EDIT: You changed the Lord's bike for a thuderwolf while I was posting.... Good choice :P

[L30n1d4s]

Yup, my bad ;)

 

Was originally going with Biker Lord and Swiftclaws, then switched over to Thunderwolves and forgot to change the Lord's mount. As for Saga of the Bear, I figure with T5, he is immune to ID in the vast majority of cases, so why not go for the potential extra attacks.

[Toasterfree]

there is still plenty in the game that at t5 he can be removed from. bear>warrior born. i would rather have bear on ragnar than warrior born. WB really only works if you are super tarpitted by say 578358907235897 guants or orcs. necron scarabs now are down right to scary to assualt unless you can kill them all, but then you would have to be assaulted.

 

WB not worth it IMHO and i am wolves player also.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

-2 x Ordos Xenos Inquisitors with Rad grenades, PML(1) (use Divination to get Prescience) -- 140

-2 x 10 GK Terminators with 2 Psycannons, BHB -- 950

-1 x Psyfleman Dread -- 135

 

Total - 1225

 

Now, adding SW allied detatchment:

-1 x Wolf Lord with Thunderwolf, TH, SS, Runic Armor, WTT, Saga of the Warrior Born -- 265

-1 x 10 Grey Hunters with 2 PGs, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod -- 205

-1 x 5 Thunderwolf Cavalry with 1 PF, 1 SS -- 305

 

For a 2k list, you lack a lot of reach. That PsyDread is your only vehicle, so its going to cop all the anti-tank turn 1. With it gone, you have nothing longer range than 24".

The Wolf Lord is way too expensive. I'd take a Rune Priest over him, and use the leftover points to field some Wolf Guard (take a powerfist dude to accompany those Grey Hunters).

Thunderwolves are sorta redundant when Knights already smash face in close-combat. I'd be looking to shore up other weaknesses (like your lack of range). Long Fangs, another PsyDread, maybe even splitting up the Grey Hunter pack and taking two Razorbacks.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'd also add the Plasma Syphon to the Inq.

 

People will bring Plasma to kill TEQ now. And as you're fielding a large amount of GKT, it would be invaluable. :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'd also add the Plasma Syphon to the Inq.

 

People will bring Plasma to kill TEQ now. And as you're fielding a large amount of GKT, it would be invaluable.

 

Waste of points. They can just shoot you with other AP2 (if they know you're bringing TDA Demolisher cannons, melta, lascannons etc will be likely), or stay out of the syphon range (its only 12"). You might catch noobs out with it, but 6th is all about positioning so after a few games it'll be something they expect.

[thade]

I'd also add the Plasma Syphon to the Inq.

 

People will bring Plasma to kill TEQ now. And as you're fielding a large amount of GKT, it would be invaluable.

 

Waste of points. They can just shoot you with other AP2 (if they know you're bringing TDA Demolisher cannons, melta, lascannons etc will be likely), or stay out of the syphon range (its only 12"). You might catch noobs out with it, but 6th is all about positioning so after a few games it'll be something they expect.

Lot of absolutes there....

 

Plasma's pretty common around were I play; I saw it all through 5th and a lot now, especially now that power weapons tend to be AP3 or worse at initiative...people are looking for ways to kill TEQ at range more than before. The Plasma Siphon's not that expensive and might do you proud.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Lot of absolutes there....

 

Plasma's pretty common around were I play; I saw it all through 5th and a lot now, especially now that power weapons tend to be AP3 or worse at initiative...people are looking for ways to kill TEQ at range more than before. The Plasma Siphon's not that expensive and might do you proud.

 

Except that its so short-range, and so easily out-ranged by good model placement, smart opponents won't worry about it. Also, as I pointed out, it does absolutely nothing to plasma cannons (who can hit you from Turn 1 potentially, and by the time you get inside syphon range you're probably dead) and other sources of AP2 that aren't plasma.

 

Plasma probably will replace melta as the standard 'kill anything' gun in 6th, especially now cover isn't as ubiquitous and 4+ all the time. That doesn't change the fact the syphon has terrible range. If they'd given it 18" or 24", you would see the point, but 12" just won't catch anything except plasma pistols.

[thade]

If they'd given it 18" or 24", you would see the point, but 12" just won't catch anything except plasma pistols.

And rapid-fire, which is - really - when Plasma is most dangerous. Paladins can otherwise soak Plasma Fire with 5++/FNP/and Look Out, Sir on 4+ while they're on approach.

 

ADDENDUM: got my convos mixed up; the OP didn't mention Paladins. <3

[Toasterfree]

If they'd given it 18" or 24", you would see the point, but 12" just won't catch anything except plasma pistols.

And rapid-fire, which is - really - when Plasma is most dangerous. Paladins can otherwise soak Plasma Fire with 5++/FNP/and Look Out, Sir on 4+ while they're on approach.

+1

 

while it seems that a PS would be useless outside of 12", current format thats where you WANT it.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I would also agree with bear on the lord. As stated lots of str. 10 stuff out there and force weapons.

 

For my thunder lord I'm going with power axe and frost blade. I'll get all my attacks and can deal with MEQ or TEQ. Runic armor, belt of russ and WTT. Has the potential to be an all around butt kicking, character killing, bad ass.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

And rapid-fire, which is - really - when Plasma is most dangerous. Paladins can otherwise soak Plasma Fire with 5++/FNP/and Look Out, Sir on 4+ while they're on approach.

 

ADDENDUM: got my convos mixed up; the OP didn't mention Paladins. <3

 

Even with rapid-fire, depending on the angles, he can technically be in range to rapid-fire say your closest model and not in range of the syphon. Positioning is everything in 6th, so don't expect your opponents to not already be planning their model placement for other reasons (taking charges, shielding special weapon dudes from taking wounds etc).

 

Yeah, sadly our regular Terminators are quite fragile if you deny their save, 5++ or a 4+ cover are chancy at best. 'Shrouding' can help but they're fat so its hard to get cover on all of them (or even most).

 

while it seems that a PS would be useless outside of 12", current format thats where you WANT it.

 

No, I want my funky xenos 'screw you' tech to work at other ranges too :) . If you're going to limit it to plasma only (btw, Tau HATE armies with syphons), at least give it a good AOE. It doesn't even kill the plasma wielders, it just makes them shoot like Orks (unlike say the 'Lord of Fire' upgrade for C'Tan, which actually explodes melta/flamer dudes in a similarly tiny AOE). Yeah, its good on those rare occassions when they are rapid-firing plasma guns or shooting plasma pistols while charging in.

 

I would also agree with bear on the lord. As stated lots of str. 10 stuff out there and force weapons.

 

For my thunder lord I'm going with power axe and frost blade. I'll get all my attacks and can deal with MEQ or TEQ. Runic armor, belt of russ and WTT. Has the potential to be an all around butt kicking, character killing, bad ass.

 

I know SW players love their Thunderlords, but do you really think its needed in a Knight army? TDA blob already murders most characters and heavy infantry BEFORE you add the TDA Inquisitor, his re-rolls just make it even more certain. I'd actually be bringing Rune Priests, they are great at denying powers and have some pretty good ones themselves. Thunderlord is funz, but he's a big expensive wrecking ball allying with an army that fields squads of wrecking balls.

[Lord Ragnarok]

And rapid-fire, which is - really - when Plasma is most dangerous. Paladins can otherwise soak Plasma Fire with 5++/FNP/and Look Out, Sir on 4+ while they're on approach.

 

ADDENDUM: got my convos mixed up; the OP didn't mention Paladins. <3

 

Even with rapid-fire, depending on the angles, he can technically be in range to rapid-fire say your closest model and not in range of the syphon. Positioning is everything in 6th, so don't expect your opponents to not already be planning their model placement for other reasons (taking charges, shielding special weapon dudes from taking wounds etc).

 

Yeah, sadly our regular Terminators are quite fragile if you deny their save, 5++ or a 4+ cover are chancy at best. 'Shrouding' can help but they're fat so its hard to get cover on all of them (or even most).

 

while it seems that a PS would be useless outside of 12", current format thats where you WANT it.

 

No, I want my funky xenos 'screw you' tech to work at other ranges too :devil: . If you're going to limit it to plasma only (btw, Tau HATE armies with syphons), at least give it a good AOE. It doesn't even kill the plasma wielders, it just makes them shoot like Orks (unlike say the 'Lord of Fire' upgrade for C'Tan, which actually explodes melta/flamer dudes in a similarly tiny AOE). Yeah, its good on those rare occassions when they are rapid-firing plasma guns or shooting plasma pistols while charging in.

 

I would also agree with bear on the lord. As stated lots of str. 10 stuff out there and force weapons.

 

For my thunder lord I'm going with power axe and frost blade. I'll get all my attacks and can deal with MEQ or TEQ. Runic armor, belt of russ and WTT. Has the potential to be an all around butt kicking, character killing, bad ass.

 

I know SW players love their Thunderlords, but do you really think its needed in a Knight army? TDA blob already murders most characters and heavy infantry BEFORE you add the TDA Inquisitor, his re-rolls just make it even more certain. I'd actually be bringing Rune Priests, they are great at denying powers and have some pretty good ones themselves. Thunderlord is funz, but he's a big expensive wrecking ball allying with an army that fields squads of wrecking balls.

 

Oh I agree, I was just commenting on a possible killy version if fielded. I think RP's are a good and efficient choice. My SW army has three. <_<

[Gentlemanloser]

You don't want to ever bring RP with GK allies...

 

Unless you like not using your GK Psychic Powers 50% of the time. Including Force Weapons...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Allies are not considered enemy models, as they are part of the same army :whistling: so no, your Knight allies still get to use their powers

[Gentlemanloser]

Allies of convenience are treated enemy models.

 

Battle Brothers aren't.

 

RP will effect GK with thier Runic Weapons. :whistling: Just as Farseers effect GKs with Runes of Warding.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Lame. Hopefully they FAQ such things into the future, it's a dumb loophole.

 

Oh well...Wolf Guard Battle Leader? Equally cheap, doesn't nerf our psychic army

[frostclaw222]

I've been coming at this from the opposite direction, wondering what Grey Knights could bring as Allies to a Space Wolf army.

 

The psychic conflict really does hamstring the most useful potential synergy. Although, it might explain why the Wolves pulled that far back at Armageddon when the Knights teleported in on Angron....

 

I'd really love to include GK in my Space Wolves list, but I think the Allies of Convenience thing causes too much potential trouble.

[Gentlemanloser]

25 point Inquisitor. Give him some wargear to suit.

 

And an NDK. MC with a PT *bamphing* up alongside the TWC.

 

:D

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah, plus Henchmen already do a lot of things that Knights want from Allies, and they're 100% compatible and part of our forces. Coteaz and his warbands are just so useful, its hard to justify squeezing in lesser Marines to our Knight forces. Especially as they have to be self-contained, as per 'Convenience'.