Semantics of "jump" units

[ShinyRhino]

The wording for jump units in 6th is a little foggy.

Are Jump Infantry units now actual Infantry units with an extra ability, and therefore targetable with infantry-only powers (Jaws of the World Wolf), or are they an entirely separate unit type? Does the same apply to Monstrous Creatures?

 

Our large SW contingent at the FLGS would like it to be one way, and the sizable BA contingent would prefer it to be another ;).

[dswanick]

The wording for jump units in 6th is a little foggy.

Are Jump Infantry units now actual Infantry units with an extra ability, and therefore targetable with infantry-only powers (Jaws of the World Wolf), or are they an entirely separate unit type? Does the same apply to Monstrous Creatures?

 

Our large SW contingent at the FLGS would like it to be one way, and the sizable BA contingent would prefer it to be another ;).

Correct. Jump Infantry are now Infantry +Jump, Jump Monstrous Creatures are now Monstrous Creatures +Jump, etc.

Thus Preferred Enemy: Infantry now affects Jump Infantry and unless otherwise noted a Rhino can now carry 5 Jump Pack equipped Infantry models.

 

"Unlike most other unit type categories, 'Jump' is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you'll find it occurs before another category - commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their basde type.", BRB, Pg.47

[ShinyRhino]

Thanks, dswanick.

I think it's a case of players holding onto 5th Edittion classifications for dear life ;).

[dswanick]

Thanks, dswanick.

I think it's a case of players holding onto 5th Edittion classifications for dear life ;).

Well, it might not be intentional - I played a game last night where my 'nid opponent insisted that his Hive Tyrant wouldn't get a Cover save. After researching it a little this morning, I concluded that we cheated him.

[Legatus]

I dunno, what I am getting from the description ("is not a category in and of itself...") is that "jump unit" is not a classification, because the rules can be applied to different types of models. I.e. there is a difference between "jump infantry" and "jump monstcour creature", and they would not share the same exact rules and be different categories. A single, general "jump units" is not a category. But a modified "jump infantry" and "jump monstrous creature" are.

 

What's not entirely clear is whether this is then an entirely different unit type that has to be adressed by special rules, or whether "jump infantry" could be adressed by both rules that target "infantry" and rules that target" jump units".

 

But as for Space Wolves JOTWW: Because that Codex distinguishes between infantry and jump infantry (since 'Tempest's Wrath' targets the latter, and since it was written for 5th Edition) JOTWW will nto affect "jump" models.

[dswanick]

But that's not what it says.

 

It says "'Jump' is not a classification in and of itself", so you will never find a "Jump" unit - you will have "Jump Infantry", and "Jump Monstrous Creature", and maybe "Jump Artillery", but never "Unit Type : Jump". It's not that much different than the unit type "Transport", it's an addendum to the unit type "Vehicle" as you should never see "Unit Type : Transport". And everything that affects "Vehicle" units would affect "Vehicle (Transport)" units.

 

It even clarifies this by stating "Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type". Just as a rule which affects "Vehicles" will affect "Vehicle (Tanks)"/"Vehicle (Transport)"/"Vehicle (Open-topped)", and a rule which affects "Tanks" will affect "Vehicle (Tanks)" but not "Vehicle (Transports)"/"vehicle (Open-topped), a rule which affects "Infantry" (like JotWW) will now affect "Jump Infantry". And were a rule which only affected "Tanks" would affect "Vehicle (Tanks)" but not "Vehicle (Transports)" rules which affect "Jump Infantry" will affect "Jump Infantry" without affecting "Infantry" (like TW).

 

Also, remember, Tempest's Wrath only affects Jump Infantry (which is now clearly identified as a sub-category of Infantry), Skimmers, Jetbikes (which are themselves a sub-category of Bikes, and were even in 5th Ed), and unit's deploying by Deep Strike. An Infantry unit wasn't affected by Tempest's Wrath any more than Bikes were (unless they happened to be deploying by Deep Strike).

[Legatus]

Just as a rule which affects "Vehicles" will affect "Vehicle (Tanks)"/"Vehicle (Transport)"/"Vehicle (Open-topped)", and a rule which affects "Tanks" will affect "Vehicle (Tanks)" but not "Vehicle (Transports)"/"vehicle (Open-topped), a rule which affects "Infantry" (like JotWW) will now affect "Jump Infantry". And were a rule which only affected "Tanks" would affect "Vehicle (Tanks)" but not "Vehicle (Transports)" rules which affect "Jump Infantry" will affect "Jump Infantry" without affecting "Infantry" (like TW).

It is possible that that is teh new intention. However, in a few places in the rulebook GW does not seem to use those classifications in that manner:

"A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle's Transport Capacity. (...)

Only Infantry models can embark upon a Transport (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise."

(6th BRB, p. 78)

Now, it does specifically mention that Jump and Jet Pack Infantry are not included, which could be seen as making a specific exception and that thus they would still be included in the "Infantry" designation. However, it does not say "only Infantry (except for Jump)", it says "only Infantry (this does not include Jump)", making it seem as though it was meant to clarify that those classifications ar enot included under the "Infantry" designation.

There is another listing of Unit Types, though:

"Only certain troops are capable of clambering to the upper levels of ruins. Accordingly, only Beasts, Infantry, Jetbikes, Skimmers and all types of Jump and Jet Pack units can move on the upper levels of a ruin"

(6th BRB, p. 98)

Here it lists Infantry and Jump units separately. Though it may just have left it open for the occasional jump artillery to be included here.

[dswanick]

Now, it does specifically mention that Jump and Jet Pack Infantry are not included, which could be seen as making a specific exception and that thus they would still be included in the "Infantry" designation.

That is how I read it.

Only certain troops are capable of clambering to the upper levels of ruins. Accordingly, only Beasts, Infantry, Jetbikes, Skimmers and all types of Jump and Jet Pack units can move on the upper levels of a ruin (6th BRB, p. 98)

Here it lists Infantry and Jump units separately. Though it may just have left it open for the occasional jump artillery to be included here.

Perhaps because while Jump Units (of all types, ie Jump Monstrous Creatures) have access to the upper levels, Monstrous Creatures (that are not also Jump) can't?

[King Willy]

I think what it means is that jump infantry use the infantry rules unless they can be overridden by the jump rules, after all now they aren't always using there packs to move around and stuff so yeah jaws would effect them, though I would make it a house rule that if they use there packs to move in movement they can't be targeted as there not walking.

 

They might also be saying that Jump is not a catagory but jump infantry, jump MC, jump pumpkin etc. is a classification and that jump would just be a prefix to designate what has access to the jump rules, hammer, 12 inch move, reroll charge etc.

 

Like was said bit foggy so this might be a case of Jervs old adage of roll off if you can't agree.