Choice of Elites & Fast

[Sception]

Inspired by the new allies rules, I'll be collecting a new Daemon army in 6th edition, to supplement my Black Legion. Being an undivided fan, and a neurotic collecter, I'm looking to keep a perfect balance in terms of number of units taken between each of the chaos alignments, while remaining bound by the 'double ally detachment' allowed in larger games. Which means four Troop slots, and two each of HQ, Elite, Fast, and Heavy.

 

The HQ and Troops are easy, given my goals. A herald of each alignment, and a unit each of the iconic lesser daemons. I'll probably put the heralds on steeds and attach them to the units in question. Flamers are, likewise, an obvious choice, been just that much better than seekers, and a Nurgle Daemon Prince is a must, because I can't take nurglings (out of troops slots), and sure as hell won't be fielding any beasts of nurgle. Furies speak to my undivided preferences (though I'll have to figure out some sort of model substitute, as I'm not a fan of the metal ones), and a soul grinder is just too cool a model to pass up.

 

So I'm left with the 'special' unit choices for Khorne and Slaanesh: either Bloodcrushers and Seekers or Fiends and Flesh Hounds. I was all set for the crushers and seekers, seeing as I actually like those models, but the AP3 hellglaives have certainly given me pause. Rending seems like a better way to go, fiends have rending to spare, and even hounds can get a fair bit of rending in if I use the special character. Then again, seekers also have rending, and crushers are awesome models. But fiends & hounds would be faster overall.... but I love the bloodcrusher models....

 

Of course, I'm doing a herald on a crusher anyway (maybe even a skulltaker conversion), so I'll still get to paint one up. And not liking the fiend and hound model isn't such a big deal, since I can use the awesome new wolf models for hounds, and this conversion for fiends is well within my abilities, and actually looks pretty awesome, and if I'm honest I'm not that big a fan of the current seeker models either.

 

Honestly, it's that awesome conversion idea for drider daemonette fiends that's really caused me to question my previous plans more then anything. They're kind of awesome, but then again so are bloodcrushers. ergh.

 

 

Anyway, I'm torn. At this point, the model options are all pretty even in my eyes, given the substitutes and conversion possibilities available. While Daemons won't be my primary army, and I'm mostly doing them for fun rather then to win games, I would still like to give the players at the local store a run for their money every now and then, so.... Any advice? With the other options I'm looking at (again: mtd. herald & lesser daemon of each faction, flamers, furies, grinder, nurgle prince), do you guys think crushers & seekers or fiends & hounds (possibly with special character hound) would prove more helpful for me?

[minigun762]

but I love the bloodcrusher models....

 

Thats my answer. People are raging about power weapons not being equivalent to AP2 but honestly AP3 is enough to burn through the vast majority of infantry, characters and MCs out there.

 

The key difference is now you have to protect or support 'crushers when fighting terminators or a few other 2+ save units.

[Borinar]

Some things to consider for your undivided OCDemon:

 

Have you considered two Greater demons and two Demon Princes to cover your 4 gods as the Nurgle Herald is lack luster. He is only 3w with a palaquin and not many interesting options.

 

Also Fiends and Bloodcrushers are both awesome in thier own ways which depended on your playstyle. Since you will have 3+ saves with your black legion the Fiends may serve better.

 

Skulltaker is almost a must sure he is AP3 however he rends on a 4+ with ID. So having some tough friends (bloodcrushers) would be a good idea. They are just slow however you will have icons on the board (likely) so it wont matter much especially with infiltrating Chosen for example.

 

A herald of Slaanesh would be neat because of ini7 and pavane, if you gave them a mount they would be fast enough to keep up with any slaanesh unit.

 

Herald of tzeentch is a jetbike (though 5 wounds and alone) and can move fast with bolt and breath.

[Sception]

Certainly some interesting things to consider

 

The key difference is now you have to protect or support 'crushers when fighting terminators or a few other 2+ save units.

Yeah, but what do I support them with? And what else do I send after enemy terminators and mega nobz? Daemonettes and seekers, I guess. It's not like I wouldn't have rending. But if your recommendation comes down to model preference, I'm flip flopping on that moment to moment. I like the drider fiend conversions nearly as much as I like the blood crushers, and I'll still have at least one bloodcrusher herald regardless (likely hanging with the bloodletters otherwise), and while I don't like the flesh hound models at all, I do like the fenrisian wolves I'd be using instead. If anything, I like them more then the seekers I'd be fielding if I ran the bloodcrushers. On the other hand, daemonic cavalry is just cool conceptually... Really, I'm perfectly split on the model issue, which is why I'm mostly looking for tactical advice.

 

Have you considered two Greater demons and two Demon Princes to cover your 4 gods as the Nurgle Herald is lack luster. He is only 3w with a palaquin and not many interesting options.

As fun as the flying circus sounds, this wouldn't fit into my force org / alignment balance requirements, not without fielding beasts of nurgle (booh) or ditching furies and soul grinders (double booh). On the other hand, I might eventually expand with greater daemons anyway. While my chaos marine army sticks pretty tightly to force org structure (not that that's going to matter any more, with double force orgs in larger games, and apoc removing restrictions completely long before that second org is filled), I do have oodles of HQs, basically ignoring the restrictions on those, and I might similarly ignore such restrictions in my daemon army eventually, adding some greater daemons later on despite not 'fitting'.

 

Also Fiends and Bloodcrushers are both awesome in thier own ways which depended on your playstyle. Since you will have 3+ saves with your black legion the Fiends may serve better.

I hadn't considered this. Within the daemon army it may be a toss up, but if the fiend/hound combo provides better support options for my primary marine detachment than the crusher/seeker combo, then that's definitely something for me to consider. When pulling allies, I'll probably mostly be picking within a given alignment though. So herald/letters/hounds & herald/dettes/fiends vs. herald/letters/crushers & herald/dettes/seekers. Hrm. Hrm. From that angle, are the drider/fiend conversions as much more impressive in model and gameplay than the seekers as the crushers are more impressive than the hounds? Hrm. Maybe not. Maybe so? I don't know.

 

Skulltaker is almost a must sure he is AP3 however he rends on a 4+ with ID. So having some tough friends (bloodcrushers) would be a good idea. They are just slow however you will have icons on the board (likely) so it wont matter much especially with infiltrating Chosen for example.

Yeah, I'm not normally much for special characters (apart from Abby, of course), but the Skulltaker is just so much better than a regular Khorne herald, and unlike some of the chaos marine characters there's no particular reason for him not to show up to a party hosted by the Black Legion. I just don't think I can pass this guy up, his high init terminator busting and challenge murdering potential is just too much, and just too necessary. The only question is how exactly I'm going to pull off a Skulltaker on Juggernaut conversion. I suppose I could put him in a chariot. That might be easier. And stronger. But not as cool, imo.

 

A herald of Slaanesh would be neat because of ini7 and pavane, if you gave them a mount they would be fast enough to keep up with any slaanesh unit.

 

Herald of tzeentch is a jetbike (though 5 wounds and alone) and can move fast with bolt and breath.

Yeah, the other heralds do cool things, though my Nurgle Herald, when I eventually get around to it, will likely be more of a display piece than anything else. I know winged monsters are the new it thing as far as Daemons in 6th edition are concerned, but I don't feel too bad picking heralds instead.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback! I'm still waffling, but I've got some more things to consider.

 

 

Actually, one thing I hadn't considered was Forgeworld stuff. Hrm. Is the blight drone a fast attack choice in regular daemon armies, or is it an Apoc-only thing? Can it be fielded in squadrens of more then one for a single slot choice? Forgeworld options wouldn't fix my problem with only being able to field two of fiends, flamers, and crushers, but it might help me out in other places.

[Borinar]

For my ST on juggernaught conversion i used the metal jugger from the fantasy line.

[Sception]

How'd you get the ST onto it, though? I'm thinking carve out the cape between the legs and try and position him on the back, remove the hand with the flaming skull, remove his sword, sculpt a new left hand holding the sword, sculpt a new leg if necessary, sculpt the cape over the jugger, embed a bunch of leftover skulls from my vamp counts army in it, and then sculpt some sort of reigns/harness/whatever into the lower hand that used to be holding the sword? A lot of effort, but I might be able to pull it off.

 

Looking at the Fantasy model, maybe I could just keep its lower torso, carve away the ST's, and mount him on it that way, re-skupting the cape as necessary, but not bothering with the arms? Then again, those armored warrior legs don't really match the ST's anatomy, maybe I'd be better off dremeling them away and going with the original plan....

 

Do you have picks of your ST on jugger that I could check out?