Captain Brightblade Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So now that we know that Blood Lance, and the Signum do not work against flyers are our only options fortifications and twinlinked weapons? Are we all going to have to take IG hydras in our lists to deal with the new meta? Can we wait for everyone to get an skyfire option? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septicon Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Load up on Storm Ravens ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So now that we know that Blood Lance, and the Signum do not work against flyers are our only options fortifications and twinlinked weapons? Are we all going to have to take IG hydras in our lists to deal with the new meta? Can we wait for everyone to get an skyfire option? According to the email GW sent me, Signums do work against Flyers. See this post Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Signum has not been ruled out, yet. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...5398&st=200 James' response from a GW rep rules it in. Other than that, take advantage of using your own flyers while the getting is good. Edit: James beat me to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Well at my LGS the owners rep. told him he asked GW and they said the signum has been ruled out. So SR's well I own four of them I guess that helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venemox Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Perhaps James should post the original document, for carry around purposes? Not that I think it will help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 To add to the confusion, where did we hear that the Blood Lance doesn't hit flyers? I thought it auto hits via our FAQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Snap fire rule page 13. "Shooting attacks that do not use a BS cannot be fired as a snap shot" Flyers page 81 "shots resolved at a flyer can only be resolved as snap shots" It sucks, but it is right there in the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Best way to take out a flyer... is with another flyer. We have one of the best flyers in the game as well. AV12... transport/assault capability, and a heavy weapon on a turret. Ceramite Armor is just icing on the cake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Just get as many missiles as you can,'Oh noes i only hit on 6s, oh well FIRE 20 MISSILES!!' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitrage Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Best way to take out a flyer... is with another flyer. We have one of the best flyers in the game as well. AV12... transport/assault capability, and a heavy weapon on a turret. Ceramite Armor is just icing on the cake. IG Vendettas' > Necron Flyers > Stormravens I think the only way to resolve this is with dev squads with an aegis defense line. I'm going to a practise tourny in september leading to a national one in november. One of my team-mates has 6 Vendettas'. I personally think Grey Knights will struggle against Vendetta spam which personally makes me snigger at grey-knight-chumps (i can say that cos i'm in the BA forum right? :cuss). In a way i'm glad this signum issue is clearing itself up because space marines overall are realativly expensive units and you're paying for a realativly high BS skill which you can't use against flyers. Truth be told Without a signum if your opponant fielded 9 Vendettas'... What would you do... if he/she rolled well for reserves thats 27 twin-linked lascannons on turn 2. A gun emplacement helps but 1 Vendetta squad could take it out easily. My team-mate an I came to the conclusion that unless GW does something soon to actually give more armies effective counters to flyers then this meta is going to be dominated by them. Soon as i decide how to outfit my dev squad i'm assembling and painting them up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Get some ork lootas and paint them red :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Well see I am a kind of player that believes that you shouldn't "HAVE" to take a piece of terrain to be competitive. Since all of our other options have been shut down it sucks. The only option is to take SR's which is really pricey. What about those armies that don't have flyers think how they feel. GW really screwed this one up IMO. Don't get me wrong flyers are cool, the aspect of dogfights, and bombing runs is awesome, but not FAQing an option for every army to deal with them was stupid. So spend your 100 to 250 points on fortifications to deal with them, and be out numbered by your oposition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJude Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Until a FAQ clears up the signum debate officially, you are at the mercy of your opponent somewhat or the TO. I'm with Septicon on "Loading up with Stormravens" as being our "best" option currently. It's unfortunate, but those with deeper wallets can dominate these early days with massed flyers and a fortification. In the meantime, I am looking at the following to help deal with the flyer threat. These are not optimal, but they are better than nothing. I think two librarians are key, either as HQs or Libby dreads. Attach a Libby with divination to a Devastator squad choosing the primaris power prescience. On the second or even third or more libby, roll twice on the telekinesis table and hope for Objuration Mechanicum. Pure volume of fire. Regular Predators with Lascannon side sponsons and Autocannons. With two preds, that is 8 shots. Hopefully you can at least force a "jink" if you land a hit. I am toying with twin-linked las on the turret. I'll need to try them both out and see how things go. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascalnz Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 best way to deal with flyers? be a fast army, run into their deployment zone, make it extremely difficult for them to get shots off at you. giggle as they spend most of the game trying to get shots onto your army also if they have 9+ flyers, they aren't going to have much on the ground, a full dop pod army could wipe out the enemy in a turn or two, which, if you go first, could easily let you win the game before the flyers arrive. actually full drop is pretty good now, the enemy can't hide their army from you first turn with full reserve, or old dawn of war deployment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 best way to deal with flyers? be a fast army, run into their deployment zone, make it extremely difficult for them to get shots off at you. giggle as they spend most of the game trying to get shots onto your army They can come on at an angle, so unless you're right on their board edge they're getting shots. But, it is more difficult, yes. Just maybe not a viable tactic? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Just get as many missiles as you can,'Oh noes i only hit on 6s, oh well FIRE 20 MISSILES!!' Well, apart from 20 missiles being 4 whole heavy FOC slots and 500+ points, mathematically you're only likely to do ~2 hull points a turn to an AV11 enemy flyer. Not a brilliant return on your points investment! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3120995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 So basically our best bets are fortifications, SR's, and twin-linked weapons. Cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3121000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Willy Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I was more joking round then anything. mostly cause we all know what can kill flyers at the moment, without 6th ed codices there isn't anything other then another flyer or loaded dice, yeah forts work best for those who don't own or want a SR or ST for vanillas, though beware the ST they maybe squishy but if the opponent goes second he'll just fly up behind your SR kill a weak flanker then jet off before coming on behind your SR and mincing it with Krak and assalt cannons. BUT ALL THE MISSILES STILL WORKS MWHAHAHAHAHA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3121014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drown Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I'm playing a 1500 tourney sat and running a raven and battle bro's stormtallon. My local meta doesn't have a ton of guard with vendettas but we have necrons aplenty. I'd be more than happy to post up some battle reps of those matches where I'm facing a flier heavy army if there is interest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3121030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Brightblade Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Yeah man that would be great, and goodluck in the tourney! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3121033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Just remember, if you face a flier army and you are going first, dont be afraid to boost your fliers off the turn they come on so you can get teh drop on the enemy - dogfight style! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3121043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabbitrage Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 So now that we know that Blood Lance, and the Signum do not work against flyers are our only options fortifications and twinlinked weapons? Are we all going to have to take IG hydras in our lists to deal with the new meta? Can we wait for everyone to get an skyfire option? According to the email GW sent me, Signums do work against Flyers. See this post surely this is pretty much the answer to the thread Imo for competitive play I'm thinking 1 Ageis defense line +Icarus Lascannon 2 Dev squads (I personally can't decide on weapon loadout yet but i'm thinking a Lascannon and Multi-Meltas'). If you place your Ageis defense line in a central position you can cover a large part of the battlefield. Also if enemy units are out of range of your Metlas' you can just go to ground anyw at you 2+ cover save (trollolololol) becuase you can snap-shot the lascannon at BS5. Also if any flyer comes in range you can have a punt with your metlas' at BS1 you're not likely to hit anything but if you have a librarian in range for rerolling hits, you're likely to get 1 hit per 3 shots. To top it all off you've got the icarus lascannon to use on their reserve rolls or in your turn as you see fit. 1 Stormraven just to drive the nail in the coffin for enemy flyers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3121051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 So now that we know that Blood Lance, and the Signum do not work against flyers are our only options fortifications and twinlinked weapons? Are we all going to have to take IG hydras in our lists to deal with the new meta? Can we wait for everyone to get an skyfire option? According to the email GW sent me, Signums do work against Flyers. See this post surely this is pretty much the answer to the thread Imo for competitive play I'm thinking 1 Ageis defense line +Icarus Lascannon 2 Dev squads (I personally can't decide on weapon loadout yet but i'm thinking a Lascannon and Multi-Meltas'). If you place your Ageis defense line in a central position you can cover a large part of the battlefield. Also if enemy units are out of range of your Metlas' you can just go to ground anyw at you 2+ cover save (trollolololol) becuase you can snap-shot the lascannon at BS5. Also if any flyer comes in range you can have a punt with your metlas' at BS1 you're not likely to hit anything but if you have a librarian in range for rerolling hits, you're likely to get 1 hit per 3 shots. To top it all off you've got the icarus lascannon to use on their reserve rolls or in your turn as you see fit. 1 Stormraven just to drive the nail in the coffin for enemy flyers. Id consider 3xML and 1x LC for the Devs. Also, consider Quad gun over the Icarus - better odds of killing stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3121055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Admetus Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Ignore them. Admittedly, I've only faced one so far which did me the honour of refusing to turn up until after the rest of his army was dead, but still. The more flyers they have (especially transport flyers), the less they're going to have starting on the table. Use the first few turns before the flyers to turn up to make your advantage count; if you can get yourself into a dominating position before the flyers turn up then they won't be able to do a huge amount of damage if you're far enough ahead. If they're transports, they have to come down at some point to let the guys out (unless its a raven using skies of blood/shadow skies, which is risky), so kill it then. Genuinely believe the best way to deal with them is if they only have 1 or 2 gunship wise (storm talon, dakkajet), then leave it alone unless you have nothing better to do, and if they have more then make the first turn count (or first 2 if you got first turn). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256448-best-options-vs-flyers/#findComment-3121099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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