Initiative step

[Gentlemanloser]

Expanding on my question above.

 

Let's assume that the Apendicies count as 'advanced' rules (they contain the rules for the Psychic Disciplines, and aren't part of the page 2-31 'basic' rules).

 

In the Summary of the game section, the Assault summary uses different wording to the 'basic' Assault rules.

 

In the 'Advanced' summary, it stats (at work, off the top of my head, please correct me if I'm wrong! :D) that as you count down the Initiative Steps, when you reach the minis Initiative value, it gets to attack.

 

Not attack at it's Initiative Step.

 

So with Unwieldy, you have an Advanced versus Advance rule conflict. Unless you rule that a mini gets to attack with it's full A at it's Initiative and *again* with thier full A at I1, when it's allowed to attack with it's Unwieldy Weapon.

 

Or, you could rule that a mini's Initiative and Initiative Step are the same value for the purpose of CC.

[thade]

Your assumption is provably false as the Appendicies contain a summary of the basic rules. <3

[Gentlemanloser]

So the Psychic Disciplines and the rules for thier assossiated powers are all 'basic' rules?

 

But aren't the 'basic' rules all the rules form pages 2 to 31?

 

The CC summary in the apendicies uses different wording to the 'basic' CC rules, so it must be an 'advanced' update, right?

[Seahawk]

The summary is not in the appendix; it's a separate part.

 

Pages 10-31 and any reprinted rules thereafter (such as the summary) are the Basic Rules.

 

Everything is is Advanced Rules.

[thade]

GML, man, there's little merit to carrying on with this further if all that's left is to try and contrive esoteric assumptions to try and fuel your ideas. Occam's Razor, my man. Let's let this one go. <3

[pingo]

I've lost track of who's arguing what now :teehee:

[Gentlemanloser]

The summary is not in the appendix; it's a separate part.

 

Pages 10-31 and any reprinted rules thereafter (such as the summary) are the Basic Rules.

 

Everything is is Advanced Rules.

 

That's not what the BRB says. :teehee:

 

GML, man, there's little merit to carrying on with this further if all that's left is to try and contrive esoteric assumptions to try and fuel your ideas. Occam's Razor, my man. Let's let this one go. <3

 

Occams razor. Initiative == Initiative Step. :)

 

I'm good with Occams razor mate. ;)

[Seahawk]

But...that's exactly what the rulebook says. Page 7.

[MalachiOfRuss]

Occams razor. Initiative == Initiative Step. :lol:

Agreed. ;)

[dswanick]

The summary is not in the appendix; it's a separate part.

 

Pages 10-31 and any reprinted rules thereafter (such as the summary) are the Basic Rules.

 

Everything is is Advanced Rules.

 

That's not what the BRB says. ;)

 

GML, man, there's little merit to carrying on with this further if all that's left is to try and contrive esoteric assumptions to try and fuel your ideas. Occam's Razor, my man. Let's let this one go. <3

 

Occams razor. Initiative == Initiative Step. :lol:

 

I'm good with Occams razor mate. :tu:

"Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless specifically stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting, and close combat as well as the rules for morale, found between pages 10 and 31.", BRB, Pg.7, Basic vs Advanced

"Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because...", BRB, Pg.7, Basic vs Advanced.

 

Basic = Pgs.10-31, Advanced = everything else is a good approximation of the above quotes.

 

However those quotes do not state that if a rule is found both within the 10-31 range and elsewhere that they are somehow Advanced rules. Any rule found between Pgs.10&31 are Basic rules, even if also found elsewhere. Advanced rules are not found between Pgs.10&31, and apply to specific sub-sets of models.

[Gentlemanloser]

Even if the 'advanced' version of the CC rules in the appendix summary is different to the 'basic' written rule earlier in the book?

 

The summary uses different language, and is actually different in application, if you follow the summary rules, and not the earlier basic rules.

 

Edit:

 

I'm home, the kids are in bed, and I can now actually sit down with the BRB to reference.

 

Page 429, Fight Sub-Phase of The Game Summary

 

count down through the steps towards 1 until you reach an Initiative value that one or more participants not involved in a challenge have (see page 22). <snip pile in reference> All engaged models (see page 23) with this Initiative now get to make a number of Attacks equal to thier Attack characteristic plus any bonus Attacks they are entitled to (see page 24)

 

This is in reference to the following;

 

When their Initiative step is reached, models with that Initiative who are still alive must attack

(page 24)

 

So what about the i4 Power Fist SM?

 

If his Initiative doesn't equal his Initiative step then;

 

He *must* attack at i4. (And pile in), but not with any 'unwieldy' weapons, see below. :D

 

Then when you count down the steps and reach 1, we find;

 

A model attacking with this weapon does so at Initiative step 1

 

This hasn't changed the mini's 'Initiative' from 4, so they get to attack *again*.

 

Unwieldy doesn't contradict the Assault rules on page 24, as it doesn't mention 'Initiative' at all. No conflict. It also doesn't state that the SM 'Initiative' is at all effected by Unwiedly. Just attacks made with the Power Fist itself is. It also doesn't disallow the SM from making *other* attacks in that Fight sub phase.

 

So, the SM gets to attack at I4, with any weapon that *isn't* Unwieldy, and then gets to attack *again* at I1 with his Unwiedly weapon.

 

Or, you could rule that Initiative step is interchangeable with Initiative in effect. With 'step' just being the method of working down from Iniative Value 10 to Initiative Value 1.

 

Now, if only Unwieldy read something like;

 

Instead of attacking on the Initiative step equal to thier Initiative value, A model attacking with this weapon does so at Initiative step 1

 

We'd have an Advanced > Basic conflict.

 

/sigh