Pure Deathwing madness?

[jeremy1391]

Greetings brothers. I am Currently deployed in the army and my current duties grant me a good amount of time to get back into the hobby, it has been nearly a decade since I have left the fold of my brother Dark Angels, I transgressed into near heresy by playing with the lesser armies of the Adeptus Astartes however I have recently ordered the beginnings of my Deathwing force in the form or a terminator squad and terminator assault squad, mind you it has been ages since have played a pure deathwing force and want to know what I should fluff my force out with, I am planning on making a 1500-2000 point army of pure unadulterated deathwing so only TDA armored units and dreads maybe a land raider, but how should I equip this glorious force for the Lion?

[Ajax Tlamunus]

I won't claim to be an expert or anything, but I've started a thread, Deathwing Metrics, which examines the loadout and options for many different Deathwing squads.

[Dark Angel Company Master]

i like to play pure DW and for a 2000 pt game i take:

 

Belial (TH/SS)

Interrogator-Chaplain in TDA

 

1) Upgraded DW with Sgt (TH/SS), CML (with a TH/SS), standard (lightning claws), Apothecary (TH/SS) and a lightning claw

2) Sgt and CML with TH/SS and 3x SB/PF

3) Sgt (TH/SS), AC/PF, TH/SS, SB/PF, SB/CF

4) Sgt (SB/PF), AC/PF, 2x SB/PF, SB/CF

 

Venerable Dreadnought with PC and heavy flamer

Venerable Dreadnought with PC and heavy flamer

Venerable Dreadnought with AC and heavy flamer

 

LR Crusader

[Cypher 102]

. . . but how should I equip this glorious force for the Lion?

With magnets so you can switch the arms around when the last build you tried needs improvement or when our new codex comes out and changes the game for us yet again.

[Droma]

Exactly what Cypher said. With so few models compared to other armies it is very much worth taking the time to magnetize each model so you can experiment with loadouts. Or you can be like some of us and just have so many terminators that you can pretty much use any squad setup you feel like.

[jeremy1391]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, Dark Angels Company Master have you ever run those venerables in a fire support role with Lascannon and Missile launchers???

[Haranin]

At least until the new codex comes out, ven dreadnoughts suck. The upgrade gets you nothing.

 

PC on tanks and dreads should be dropped like a hot potato- you can kill yourself with them. Big difference between losing a marine and a 150 point model!

 

Working in a librarian rather than a chaplain might be good. Divination is awesome and buffs cannot be denied by the enemy. Until our book gets redone, telepathy shouldn't be taken (to many lvl 2 powers).

[Ajax Tlamunus]

At least until the new codex comes out, ven dreadnoughts suck. The upgrade gets you nothing.

 

You do gain something. Re-rolling the result on the penetrating hit chart only isn't as great as re-rolling the result on two charts, since their is no glancing hit chart anymore. It probably isn't worth what it once was, but it is not a zero-gain.

 

PC on tanks and dreads should be dropped like a hot potato- you can kill yourself with them. Big difference between losing a marine and a 150 point model!

 

In order to suffer the negative effect of the Gets Hot! rule, you need to roll a natural 1 to hit followed by a natural 1,2, or 3. That is an 8% of a glancing hit. Not that risky, contrary to the "OMG! Oh noes!" floating around the internet and the table talk at the local game shop.

 

Working in a librarian rather than a chaplain might be good. Divination is awesome and buffs cannot be denied by the enemy. Until our book gets redone, telepathy shouldn't be taken (to many lvl 2 powers).

 

Sound enough logic... Although, the Chaplain models all tend to be incredibly good looking bits of kit. Play a 2000 point game, take three HQs! B)

[Ajax Tlamunus]

At least until the new codex comes out, ven dreadnoughts suck. The upgrade gets you nothing.

 

You do gain something. Re-rolling the result on the penetrating hit chart only isn't as great as re-rolling the result on two charts, since their is no glancing hit chart anymore. It probably isn't worth what it once was, but it is not a zero-gain.

 

PC on tanks and dreads should be dropped like a hot potato- you can kill yourself with them. Big difference between losing a marine and a 150 point model!

 

In order to suffer the negative effect of the Gets Hot! rule, you need to roll a natural 1 to hit followed by a natural 1,2, or 3. That is an 8% of a glancing hit. Not that risky, contrary to the "OMG! Oh noes!" floating around the internet and the table talk at the local game shop.

 

Working in a librarian rather than a chaplain might be good. Divination is awesome and buffs cannot be denied by the enemy. Until our book gets redone, telepathy shouldn't be taken (to many lvl 2 powers).

 

Sound enough logic... Although, the Chaplain models all tend to be incredibly good looking bits of kit. Play a 2000 point game, take three HQs! B)

[ForTheLion]

Well i hate to be the one to stand out but i really think that ezekiel is a must have nowdays, he knows 3 powers which he can sqitch for any discipline! Sure hel cast only 1 per turn but with a 170 point model its worth it. I usally give him The divination primary (reroll all failed to hit in cc and shooting) stick him with belial and the command squad and we have some serious deathstar material there...or if youre more of a shooty guy then give him the telekinisis or telepathy primary where the enemy rolls 3d6 and subtracts his leadership, the result is the wounds the unit suffers with no saves or no armor saves...also with the new edition he cancels enemy powers on a 3+ most of the time, unless the enemy has a higher strength psyker in which case its 4+

[Brother Immolator]

I think to be honest that he looses much of his benefits if he joins a deathwing unit. His fearless bubble doesnt work, he is not equipped with terminator armor and thus the unit cant deepstrike and you can get rerolls without relying on chance (aka psichic tests) by taking an interrogator.

 

I think ezeks place now is to stay behind the lines and buffing other units such as tactical and dev squads. His fearless bubble and his rerolls are shining better here. Plus if the need arises he can join CC and quite possibly save them if something goes really bad.

[Haranin]

ezek gets one more power then a standard librarian but is still level 1 with no invul save for 20 more points. Lame.

 

Possibly worth it for a greenwing force... but deathwing? Not so much.

 

Kinda stupid that you have ally space marines to get a lvl 2.

[Harleqvin]

Well i hate to be the one to stand out but i really think that ezekiel is a must have nowdays, he knows 3 powers which he can sqitch for any discipline! Sure hel cast only 1 per turn but with a 170 point model its worth it. I usally give him The divination primary (reroll all failed to hit in cc and shooting) stick him with belial and the command squad and we have some serious deathstar material there...or if youre more of a shooty guy then give him the telekinisis or telepathy primary where the enemy rolls 3d6 and subtracts his leadership, the result is the wounds the unit suffers with no saves or no armor saves...also with the new edition he cancels enemy powers on a 3+ most of the time, unless the enemy has a higher strength psyker in which case its 4+

 

 

The FAQ makes him mastery level 1 (edited accidently put 2,) and also states that if you choose to get new Powers rolled you lose all three for two new powers. It's better to take a TDA lib most likely if you're planning on rolling for powers unless you really want to pay that much more for an extra wound and one more Ld. Master crafted bolt pistol and force weapon. Oh and a book that will make your DW fearless, again, when within 12 inches. Lqtm

[ForTheLion]

You are all right, he has no invul, and he cannot d.strike, but were talking about a buffing machine that you wana stick into a LRC with belial and command squad, give him the reroll and charge out of a landraider and straight into the thick of it!

 

I honestly dont think a greenwing force will ever be viable with our current codex seeing how we are so overpriced compared to any other marine codex.

 

Now the comparison between a int chaplain and eze is as you mentioned one has TDA and eze has mastercrafted, but with the current edition it is extremely important to have psychic defence and eze provides this. Sure youre chapy will give you a definite reroll on a charge but eze will do it only is he passes his LD10, but then again he will cut off most powers that affect you within his 6 inch bubble on a 3+ (4+ if enemy has badass psyker).

 

I also understand that alot of players just ewnjoy fluffy armies and want to play dark angels because they play dark angels, so to them i would say ezekiel fits in less that a int.chapy. But if you want most utility out of an HQ that has multiple purposes (psychic defence, buffs, offensive psychic) then ezekiel is your guy.

 

Also remember that the closest model takes wounds now from shooting, so just put ezekiel between all the other guys and keep him safe ;)

 

Now i could be wrong since ive only played 15 games with him so far, but hes really been a blssing in 6th edition, wel see how the meta evolves guys, but atm it is my firm belief that ezek is a must in any competitive deathwing army

[march10k]

Or you can be like some of us and just have so many terminators that you can pretty much use any squad setup you feel like.

 

+1.

 

I would hesitate to field the vennies in this edition, even though they were a mainstay of my force in 5th edition. Being venerable doesn't protect them from getting glanced to death early on.

 

On the other hand, land raiders are still as strong as ever, perhaps even harder to kill than before...and the mars pattern is buffed by the damage table bonus for AP2 weapons, and all of them are boosted by the nerfing of cover saves.

 

I would take 2-3 assorted land raiders, belial, a libby, and as many termies as points allow. All sergeants should have TH/SS for challenge purposes, and beyond that, a variety of weapons is your friend. The nerfing of cover lowers the stock of heavy flamers and raises that of assault cannons. The ability to glance vehicles to death also helps ass cannons. As for cyclones...well, I foresee fewer vehicles, except for an explosion of fliers. So if they end up getting flak missiles, they'll be essential, if not, they'll be weak choices.

[riddles]

Well i hate to be the one to stand out but i really think that ezekiel is a must have nowdays, he knows 3 powers which he can sqitch for any discipline! Sure hel cast only 1 per turn but with a 170 point model its worth it. I usally give him The divination primary (reroll all failed to hit in cc and shooting) stick him with belial and the command squad and we have some serious deathstar material there...or if youre more of a shooty guy then give him the telekinisis or telepathy primary where the enemy rolls 3d6 and subtracts his leadership, the result is the wounds the unit suffers with no saves or no armor saves...also with the new edition he cancels enemy powers on a 3+ most of the time, unless the enemy has a higher strength psyker in which case its 4+

 

righto. i've been away for a while. but as my usual haunt is...no longer in operation, i've been perusing these forums again. some great painting work going up, btw guys.

 

Had to address this, though, mainly because i *think* (and i stress, think) you have the deny the witch rules wrong. happy for you to provide a page reference to prove me wrong though.

 

Ezekiel stops enemy powers on a 5+. He is mastery level 1. So you're paying 170 points for a second HQ choice who;

- limits your tactical flexibility (no deep strike)

- can't stop the powers you really want him to stop (basically, blessings, hammerhand, unleash rage, shield etc.).

- when you do need to stop a power (nullzone, silly shooting/hex types), he has a 33% chance of stopping it.

- can't make use of his best ability - giving friendly units fearless - because you are already fearless

 

A 145 tda libby does everything that Ezekiel does because he has access to divination, stops psychic powers on a 5+. Ezekiel has 1 extra attack due to extra ccw, but can't use the master crafted if you stick him in a belial-command squad deathstar because you will have used the re-rolls on that squad as it's you're deathstar.

 

unless you're running power armour (and realistically, from a competitive pov, codex space marines is FAR superior), taking the big E over a TDA libby is a waste of points.

 

@Jeremy1391 (OP)

Pure Deathwing is a tough army to play. However, 6th ed has made some elements of it better.

 

Shooting got stronger, which makes melta less relevant, which means more space for plasma and flamer. 2+ armour got a lot better in combat, so we'll see more plasma. which means, unlike last edition, from a competitive POV, you really need lots of THSS termis. ESPECIALLY as the wound allocation rules now favour the shooter. there's ways around this (look out sir with a THSS termi, for example), but even i, who argued for the utility of pf/sb and tlc termis in a footslogging army, can't disagree with all THSS, all the time.

 

Second, cyclone misille launchers. for a footslogging army they are gold. they can take on up to av14 with the new hull points rules and give you a 48 inch threat range. this is why walking assault termis in other armies tends not to work so well - they have no threat outside assault. cml deathwing have a large threat range. there's more argument for the assault cannon now, as it can attrition rhinos etc. but they should be on your forward units (the DWA ones), who will have more need of THSS.

 

dreadnoughts are really not that strong unless you're running las/ml or autocannon/ml but even then they are not as good as their counterparts in other books. if your competitive environment allows FW, mortis dreads are great fire support.

 

land raiders actually got a lot better. with the decrease in melta, their main threat is gone. there is increased threat from lascannons, but i expect the cheaper autocannon and missile launcher will be prevalent. you get 18 inches in the first turn, then 6 move, 6 disembark and 2d6 charge. that's a big threat range. the godhammer got better as it can fire both lascannons on the move.

however, melta has not vanished. BUT, triple land raiders, triple deathwing, belial and a librarian will be a very tough army to deal with unless you're necrons or the right guard builds and is about as pure deathwing as you can get.

 

finally, playstyle. unless you add allies or ravenwing/ironwing support, you pretty much want to keep a tight phalanx (single terminator squads are relatively easy to deal with, 3 in mutual support of each other is not), march onto objectives spitting out missiles at transport vehicles, and sit there, daring your enemy to move fearless 2+/3++ models off them.

 

If you just want to play deathwing because they're cool as all hell and you're not going into a very hardcore competitive environment (basically, 40 person+ tournaments), any combinations are good as long as you can deal with all types of armour. I still like the plasma cannon dread for a giggle every now and then.

[jeremy1391]

Thanks everyone. I think I am gonna rock a wall of stormshields in front followed by my "tactical terminators"