Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hi guys, You may have seen from my intro post I've chosen SWs as my first army. I'm having a little trouble deciding on what theme to go with. On the one hand I'm tempted with long-range/CQC option; but on the other hand the all-out assault theme, transports flanked by LS-Typhoons sounds very appealing. I've also heard that for lower point armies it's best to take a generic HQ (Rune Priest/Wolf Lord) and save the Characters for higher points? The battle force I picked up seems to be a good start, although I'm dubious about the drop pod. Any input or words of wisdom would be very welcome. Cheers Nick Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 It depends how you want to play the game, in my opinion, do you want to have a chance at winning? Just have fun/have an army that looks cool? Or a combo? If you want fun, take judging via the Rule of Cool. If you want to WAAC, take judging via the Rule of the Tool*. *I found that extremely funny. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hmmm, I'm not really in it for the cool. My friends that play all field different armies; Blood Angels, Eldar, Nids, Necrons and IG. I guess looking at the list I'd need to have a fairly versatile army in order to stand a chance at beating them all. Especially given that the BA player has been playing them for years and is quite a tactician. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hi guys, You may have seen from my intro post I've chosen SWs as my first army. I'm having a little trouble deciding on what theme to go with. On the one hand I'm tempted with long-range/CQC option; but on the other hand the all-out assault theme, transports flanked by LS-Typhoons sounds very appealing. I've also heard that for lower point armies it's best to take a generic HQ (Rune Priest/Wolf Lord) and save the Characters for higher points? The battle force I picked up seems to be a good start, although I'm dubious about the drop pod. Any input or words of wisdom would be very welcome. Cheers Nick Yes, save your special characters for games where the points are high enough, losing a single 200+pt model won't devastate your army (ie, all your eggs in one basket). Also, a common tip is a pack of grey hunters (or comparable troop option) for every 500 points. As for the drop pods, if anything they're even better this edition, and with the decline in rhino transport preference due to hull point fragility, they're gaining more favor. Wolves (Grey Hunters in particular) have always excelled at the 12-24" range due to counterattack, so they could rapid fire and receive the charge. Now with Overwatch, WG being characters, and WP pref. enemy allowing rerolls for shooting, you can potentially have 8 plasma shots, rerolling ones on overwatch, and 3 of them being precision shots, and STILL receive counterattack bonuses, all in a 12man GH pack. Drop the WG and 1 GH and its still 4 plasma shots immediately coming out of a drop pod and set up for overwatch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Yes, Drop Pods are looking tasty this edition. I might have to include a few so some of my units get nice and close to the enemy (playing footslogger lists does hurt...). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Another query. I note the Codex states that a 10 "model" squad can upgrade another weapon at no cost... I was planning on doing 2 x 9 man GH squads, led by a WG. Would the WG count as the 10th man and thus make the squad eligible for the free upgrade? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Another query. I note the Codex states that a 10 "model" squad can upgrade another weapon at no cost... I was planning on doing 2 x 9 man GH squads, led by a WG. Would the WG count as the 10th man and thus make the squad eligible for the free upgrade? No, Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are not assigned at list level, meaning that the pack is nine strong, then when it comes to deployment you assign Wolf Guard. However this means you can have fun either running an elite unit of Wolf Guard on the field or split them to packs who need them as the scenario dictates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Another query. I note the Codex states that a 10 "model" squad can upgrade another weapon at no cost... I was planning on doing 2 x 9 man GH squads, led by a WG. Would the WG count as the 10th man and thus make the squad eligible for the free upgrade? Sadly no, as this is done during List Building. It has to be 10 Grey Hunters to "unlock" the second special weapon. ninja'd by Mikal! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Damn, it was worth a shot! I'm pretty annoyed that the box set doesn't include any Meltaguns though, what the hell? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 ninja'd by Mikal! Well, I am a Scout... :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Ok, so I've had a good look through and have come up with the following. Feel free to rip it apart, critique is very welcome. Space Wolves Army List Rune Priest : JotWW, LL, Chooser of the Slain, Wolftooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman Total : 135 Wolf Guard x4: Power Fist x 4, Mark of the Wulfen x 1 Total: 187 Wolf Scout x5 : Missile Launcher x 1, Sniper Rifle x 4, Melta Bombs x 2 Total : 107 Grey Hunter x9: 2 x Meltaguns, Power Fist, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen Drop-Pod + Deathwind Total : 245 Grey Hunter x9 : 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen Drop-Pod + Deathwind Total : 245 Long Fangs x 6: Missile Launchers x 4, Meltagun x 1 Rhino + Extra Armour Total: 190 Long Fangs x 6: Missile Launchers x 4, Meltagun x 1 Rhino + Extra Armour Total: 190 Land Speeder x2: Typhoon Upgrade x 2: Multi-Melta x 2 Total: 200 Total : 1,499 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethzor Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I would drop the Meltaguns on the Long Fangs, waste of points for a unit that is supposed to hang back and pick off enemy tanks. Give your Rune priest Runic Armour for the left over points, and then find 10 more to be able to upgrade your Rhinos to Razorbacks with TL-HB. And you can't have 2 Meltas in your Grey Hunter squads due to them only being 9! //Ethzor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Descent start, but I would... Drop the WTN and WTT on the Rune Priest, you have him in a shooty role, no need for the CC bits. Talisman could be handy if you are worried about nullification. Runic Armor if you have some spare points at the end doesn't hurt either. Trade the Powerfist on the Grey Hunters for a power axe. You'll still get Ap2, but you'll always have at least two attacks to swing with, rather than just 1. You can deal with most things with the axe. Why does one Wolf Guard have MotW when they all have Power fists? If you didn't already know, the abilities don't stack. So a bit of a waste there. Ditch the Melta Gun on the Long Fangs pack, doesn't mesh well with the long range ML's. Also, what are the Rhino's for? If you have the spare points, either upgrade them to Razorbacks, or use the points elsewhere I would say. Buy an empty pod for the Wolf Guard, that way you can have the two Pods with Grey Hunters auto arrive on turn one. I think the one would just get butchered before it could really achieve anything. Scouts look a little on the pricey side, but I'm not accustom to using them outside of the 5 with Melta Gun setup, so I'll leave them as is and let some of our savy Scout users address them. Like I said, it's a decent start, but a bit of tweaking will go a long way I think. Also, welcome to the Rout :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Thanks for the responses guys, it's been a great help. I'm re-writing the list and doing some tweaking. The wolf guard were original put in with a view to breaking them off to lead each unit later. Is there much point putting WG with LFs? I'm also thinking of removing the razorbacks completely and taking a whirlwind + armour instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Thanks for the responses guys, it's been a great help. I'm re-writing the list and doing some tweaking. The wolf guard were original put in with a view to breaking them off to lead each unit later. Is there much point putting WG with LFs? I'm also thinking of removing the razorbacks completely and taking a whirlwind + armour instead. The main uses I see a Wolf Guard for in a Long Fang pack is A) an extra wound. Stick him at the front to take hits. Keep him plain jane, or toss him in some terminator armor and/or give him a storm shield. ^_^ stick him in Terminator armor and toss on a Cyclone Missile Launcher to give you two more missile shots. probably otherwise that people kit him out, but those are the most common I have seen. Ooh, a Whirlwind. Probably the most underused SM vehicle, I always smile when I see one roll out. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I would upgrade the RP to having Runic Armor. I think its definitely a worthy investment especially due to all power weapons being set to AP3 I would definitely drop the meltaguns and the rhinos for the long fang squads and apply those points else where (the WW is a nice cheap choice and pretty flexible). Also maybe try diversifying one of the squads to having a lascannon or two incase there are a few MC's or heavies being fielded. I like the drop pod idea but I've never been a fan of the death launcher due to its point cost and short range. It's just too expensive for its potential output! and I really like the wolf sniper scout setup. Its nice, small and cheap, plus the .17% chance of being able to allocate wounds while shooting + rending is even better, the only thing I would do is drop the melt bombs or just keep one. And last but not least I would try to mix the weapons mix on the wolf guard TDA's even if you're going to split them up. Remember we have some of the cheapest TDA's out there for out point cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I would upgrade the RP to having Runic Armor. I think its definitely a worthy investment especially due to all power weapons being set to AP3 I would definitely drop the meltaguns and the rhinos for the long fang squads and apply those points else where (the WW is a nice cheap choice and pretty flexible). Also maybe try diversifying one of the squads to having a lascannon or two incase there are a few MC's or heavies being fielded. I like the drop pod idea but I've never been a fan of the death launcher due to its point cost and short range. It's just too expensive for its potential output! and I really like the wolf sniper scout setup. Its nice, small and cheap, plus the .17% chance of being able to allocate wounds while shooting + rending is even better, the only thing I would do is drop the melt bombs or just keep one. And last but not least I would try to mix the weapons mix on the wolf guard TDA's even if you're going to split them up. Remember we have some of the cheapest TDA's out there for out point cost. Unless I've missed it, I don't believe they are in TDA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Again, thanks for your input guys it's been really helpful. I've put together two tweaked potential lists for you to tear apart. As usual, critique strongly welcomed! Space Wolves Army List Tweaked Version 1 Rune Priest: Runic Power Armour, JotWW, LL Total: 120 Wolf Guard x 4: Power Fist x 2 Total: 122 Wolf Scouts x 5: Missile Launcher x 1, Sniper Rifle x 4 Total: 97 Grey Hunters x 9: Meltagun x 1, Power Axe x 1, WS, MotW Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod Total: 215 Grey Hunters x 9: Meltagun x 1, Power Axe x 1, WS, MotW Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod Total: 215 Long Fangs x 5: Missile Launchers x 4 Total: 115 Long Fangs x 5: Missile Launchers x 4 Total: 115 Whirlwind x 2: Extra Armour x 2 Total: 200 Land Speeder x 3: Typhoon Upgrade x 3, Multi-Melta x 3 Total: 300 Total: 1,499 The WG will join the 2 x GH and 2 x LF units respectively. WG with GH will have power fists, WG with LF will be an extra wound (and just be there to look cool) In addition, I've done a further tweaked version, utilising the Razorbacks. Unfortuantely I've got 41pts left over and can't find/decide on what to spend them on. Tweaked Version 2: Rune Priest: Runic Power Armour, CotS, JotWW, LL Total: 120 Wolf Guard x 4: Power Fist x 2 Total: 122 Wolf Scouts x 5: Missile Launcher x 1, Sniper Rifle x 4 Total: 97 Grey Hunters x 9: Meltagun x 1, Power Axe x 1, WS, MotW Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod Total: 215 Grey Hunters x 9: Meltagun x 1, Power Axe x 1, WS, MotW Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod Total: 215 Long Fangs x 5: Missile Launchers x 4 Dedicated Transport: Razorbacks: TL-Las Total: 190 Long Fangs x 5: Missile Launchers x 4 Dedicated Transport: Razorbacks: TL-Las Total: 190 Land Speeder x 3: Typhoon Upgrade x 3, Multi-Melta x 3 Total: 300 Total: 1,459 I'm confident I've worked out the points correctly. But feel free to highlight if I haven't! Cheers N Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runesch Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Just so you guys know, scouts cant take 1 melta bomb, the whole squad have to take them or none gets them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Thanks for pointing that out Runesch. I completely stripped the scouts of Melta Bombs anyway once I'd re-read the blurb in the Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 For the sake of nitpicking, you don't have to pick your psychic powers until deployment now. Ok, lots said regarding initial list and great strides at adjusting to common beginner mistakes. Issues I would consider, however are: 1. Long Fangs can have 6 in a pack (meaning 5 heavy weapons, not 4 as traditional). If you're worried about fitting them in the razorbacks, don't. They'll never step foot in them as its a waste of a turn moving them around and not shooting. 2. You're missing out on a great opportunity by being 1 man shy of a 5 man WG pack and therefore unable to take a special weapon. If this were my list, I'd reduce points in the LS squadron as needed (which are more fragile in this addition anyway) and grab a 5th WG in TDA and a cyclone launcher and stick him with one of the LF packs. The WG he replaced can be moved to the scouts. All the WG that are likely to see melee (ie the pfist ones) I would also give combiweapons as, since they're "characters", they'll get precision shots. As a side note, make sure those 4 snipers only traded out their ccw and kept their bolt pistols. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Yes, I assumed that they where. Anyways, I like list two. It covers a wide range and looks flexible to handle most armies. Another option is to drop one of the Longfangs razorback combined with the remaining points to opt for another Heavy slot choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromute Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 For the sake of nitpicking, you don't have to pick your psychic powers until deployment now. Ok, lots said regarding initial list and great strides at adjusting to common beginner mistakes. Issues I would consider, however are: 1. Long Fangs can have 6 in a pack (meaning 5 heavy weapons, not 4 as traditional). If you're worried about fitting them in the razorbacks, don't. They'll never step foot in them as its a waste of a turn moving them around and not shooting. 2. You're missing out on a great opportunity by being 1 man shy of a 5 man WG pack and therefore unable to take a special weapon. If this were my list, I'd reduce points in the LS squadron as needed (which are more fragile in this addition anyway) and grab a 5th WG in TDA and a cyclone launcher and stick him with one of the LF packs. The WG he replaced can be moved to the scouts. All the WG that are likely to see melee (ie the pfist ones) I would also give combiweapons as, since they're "characters", they'll get precision shots. As a side note, make sure those 4 snipers only traded out their ccw and kept their bolt pistols. I did originally have 6 in each pack, but dropped one to keep the points low. I am tempted to drop the scouts altogether as they don't seem to really fit the aesthetic of the army, plus the scouts I have from the Battleforce dont have sniper rifles. Those 97 plus another 100 from dropping a LS could do some nice things for the WG in addition to adding the 6th LF units back in. Of course there's an additional pt gain by ditching a Razorback as Bay stated. I didn't intend it to be really used as transport; it just seemed deadlier than having Rhinos! Maybe a few more WG would make the RP seem less exposed as well. 7 WG, 4 with squads, the rest with the RP maybe. I'm astonished at the amount of thought that has to go into an Army list! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtTelion Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I'm astonished at the amount of thought that has to go into an Army list! Just wait till you start play testing it. Oh boy, you will tweak so much :P It part of the Fun. I try to build a list that can take all comers. Although I regularly take on the Tyranids, I keep the list balanced and not Tailor Made for them. Still, My only advice is this: Grey Hunters are awesome. You can NEVER have enough of them. Although this probably wont work for you, I would ditch the Landspeeders in favour of another Pack. Also, something to bear in mind: You only have one HQ Choice, yet as the Space Wolves we get double the amount any one else does... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3121899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I definitely agree with SgtTelion on the Greyhunter notion. More the better! I've always been so-so on landspeeders, they are deadly yet fragile and take a couple of games to get a real grasp on how they work. But I would keep them in your list since that seems to be the playstyle you are aiming for. Retouching on the extra points + dropping 1 RBlc would give you another 116 points to utilize somewhere else. Let us know how the play-testing goes. I'm curious how the list performs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/256538-space-wolves-choices/#findComment-3122159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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