Helping the less fortunate: Allying with Marines

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So, seeing as Marines are the only ally we can talk about (Sisters...yeah no), lets discuss. Firstly, lets examine the primary traits and advantages they bring

 

Spiritual Liege: Storm shielded TDA Librarians are nice (they can take a force halberd too), bunch of alright characters (Pedro is pretty bro making Sternguard score) Contemptor and Contemptor Mortis, Ironclad Dreads, Sternguard, outflanking Bikers with Khan...nice generalists

Robes n Stabbings: Deathwing, eh....oooh Ravenwing has teleport homers, nice. Has Contemptor and Contemptor Mortis too...less options than normal Marines though, and we kinda have the market cornered on 'awesome scoring TDA units'. Fearless Bikers with built-in Outflank don't sound bad though, and Sammael is a hilarious flying plasma cannon

Wolfy Wolves: Rune Priests say 'no' on a 4+ to witchery, amusingly you can choose to not deny Knight powers (as the roll is optional), Thunderwolves are nice...their super-special Contemptor is nothing special though, gets a WTN which is nice I guess (WS5 base sorta takes care of that but hey, you can never be too accurate)

Totally Not Vampires: Er...Baal Predator maybe? They also get a super special Contemptor, but he's not that interesting. Dreadnought Librarians are funny though

Templars: Er....everything you can do, I can do better! Except POTMS Vindicators, they scare me

 

 

The three best I think for a Knight base army are normal Marines, Dark Angels (we're slow, Ravenwing are not and have melta/plasma). Lets start with normal Marines;

 

For the HQ, I'd be looking at a TDA Epistolary, or Pedro if you like Sternguard that much (ie for scoring, not just as a 'Gate' candidate).

 

Elites is Sternguard, either way they make the most sense (Terminators are redundant for the army that is made of Terminators)

 

Troops is either min sniper Scouts (don't forget teleport homer), or a Tac squad with usual gear if you're feeling fancy

 

Fast Attack...multi-melta Attack Bike squadron?

 

Heavy is Contemptor Mortis, or auto-las Pred if you don't have one. Srsly, Contemptor Mortis is worth getting though. 12 assault cannon shots, a CML, and it Skyfires when you sit still. PsyDreads have the Contemptor Mortis on their bedroom wall, and dream of one day being as shooty and powerful.

 

 

Now for the Dark Angels;

 

HQ is Sammael, or a Biker Librarian with Divination (like with normal Marines, taking the SC is for scoring purposes). The bonus with Sammael is that you get two Ravenwing squads when you take him, instead of just one that doesn't score.

 

Elites isn't worth taking

 

Troops sadly requires Tacs, you can go min. Cool kids take Sammael and Ravenwing here though

 

Fast Attack is that one Ravenwing squad for teleporting on top of in enemy lines.

 

Heavy is Contemptor Mortis or auto-las Pred again. Contemptor Mortis is actually a more fitting choice here (not to mention awesome), as the Dark Angels came up with the concept of 'two guns on a Dreadnought is better than one gun and a dinky fist it hardly ever uses'.

 

 

Finally, the Wolves:

 

HQ are a pair of Rune Priests, one if you are tight on points. I'd actually keep their default powers, unlike DA they don't suck. Wolf Lord is not required, Knights have the hero/monster slaying side of things covered.

 

Elites should be Wolf Guard

 

Troops should be just the one GH pack, double plasma is a good idea

 

Fast Attack, nothing worth mentioning

 

Heavy Support, eh Long Fangs are replicated by PsyDreads, and Henchmen bring cheaper plasma cannon and lascannon

 

 

Now, what about going the other way? What should you bring when its their time of crisis?

 

HQ:

 

Coteaz is quite nice...but a TDA Inquisitor can Deepstrike. They're both good, take your pick. If you do take Coteaz, don't forget to bring some cheap Henchmen in the second slot, some monkeys and plasma cannon/plasma guns will compliment your Terminator blob nicely.

 

Elites:

 

Vindicare brings something interesting, but more likely you'd take Purifiers or Paladins right? Don't bring Ven Dreads, or Tech-Marines

 

Troops:

 

Terminators, with all the trimmings. Watch their own First Company mutter and mumble about 'back in my day, we had to wait in line for TDA'.

 

Fast Attack is a waste, we almost never do in our own armies

 

Heavy Support...oh man, it has to be the Dreadknight. PsyDread can be replicated or outclassed by other Heavy options, but the Dreadknight is hilarious with other Marines.

 

 

So, up to you guys now. Had any games with allies? Your own thoughts on good combos?

[Inquisitor Fox]

I'd really look at it in the sense of "what gaps can they fill that we don't already have?" It's mostly vehicles really... bikes, speeders, tanks, etc. As a general rule we don't have tanks or armored support. On the other hand, theme is also somewhat appropriate. I've been considering a tactical squad of Exorcists, one of my HQs, and then I could work in a Death Watch kill team (Sternguard unit) legally. Then again, having to have a troops choice to get the Death Watch is irritating...

[Zeratil]

Blood Angels would be quite good I feel, Libby HQ, an ASM squad with melta guns and a fast vindicator would all be useful at filling gaps in GK.

[adamv6]

Lysander is a fantastic HQ unit choice.

 

ST10 Hammer and Storm Shield in TDA, with Bolster Defences. He is EW, with 4 wounds and is brutal in CC. All for 200 points? The ultimate challenge unit? Whats more, he makes all his fellow Imperial Fists stubborn :)

 

Run him with a tac squad with multimelta and ML for a little extra AV punch.

[Gentlemanloser]

Sadly, we won't be able to use our Allies Teleport Homers.

 

/grumble

 

For SM I also think the Master of the Forge could be a nice HQ. Or a normal Captain, if you want some Biker Troops.

 

As INP said, use the allies to fill gaps we don't have (like Snipers / Long Range Infnatry) or double up on stuff we already have. Like another two riflemen to go withthe three psyflement you're bringing.

 

SM also has access to the Stormtalon.

 

But on the whole, I don't *really* see the use of replacing points you would have spent on GK Marines, for Allied Marines.

 

Just take more GK. ;)

[Zeratul29]

I agree its a shame we cant use DA teleport homers on the bikes or they would be the most worth taking, but I would say go normal marines, take maybe a librarian(to use psychic powers to buff your terminators as they advance with prescience or invisibility, and put the librarian in a tac squad(whatever weapon combo you like) so the seargent can accept challenges for the librarian and then take a skytalon and an auto lascannon predator to fill in our aircraft for less points, and more long range firepower, this would basically take a quarter of a 2000pt list, but it fills in some gaps i suppose

[Abaddonshand]

I think we really should have been given battle brothers with Codex: SM and IG (I'm shooting myself in the foot here, as my other PA army is DA). Codex SM would allow us to fight closely with the Exorcists, which is very fluffy, and IG would allow us to represent Inquisitors "acquiring" private armies, or simply IG commanders counting their blessings that astartes have shown up to help (if they've never heard of grey knights, they'd have no reason to worry about being "cleansed" after the battle).

 

Not being battle brothers with DA makes sense (borderline heretics who don't trust us, and practically keep to legion strength due to their close connections with/ control of their successors), as does SW (mutants who don't trust us), BA (mutants) and BT (nutters who hate psykers and maintain legion strength).

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm seriously thinking about Bangels.

 

The ultimate Psyker as a HQ choice, or even a Libby Dread. Scouts. FnP ICs. Stormravens with 'proper' missiles.

 

I'm even considering sticking Dante and 5 Sanguinary Guard into a Bangle SR and DSing them without scatter as it zooms around as a Flyer.

 

HQ: Dante

Elite: 2 x Sanguinary Priests

Troop: Sanguinary Guard

Troop: 10 x Snipers

Fast: Storm Raven

 

The Snipers Combat Squad and the two priests go with them.

[Darkmagi]

One slight Issue, the bangle raven is s heavy not fast.

[Zeratul29]

Fortunately it'll still work for him

[BrotherWasted]

Librarian in TDA with Null Zone.

Scout Squad.

 

That's it.

[Gentlemanloser]

One slight Issue, the bangle raven is s heavy not fast.

 

Doh!

 

Knew I left Heavy free for a reason. ;)

 

Fortunately it'll still work for him

 

:(

 

Librarian in TDA with Null Zone.

Scout Squad.

 

That's it.

 

Libby standing on his own? As we're not brothers in arms, he can't join any GK Sqauds.

 

And it's a kind of a waste to leave him with Scouts. They are snipers, right?

[BrotherWasted]

Put him in amongst your other units and he'll be fine. You only want him for Null Zone anyway. You'd be taking your own GK libby as well to do the real nasty stuff.

[T3mpl@r Crusade]

My second army is Templars. If I were to use them as allies to save $, I would probably go with a cheap as chips chaplain with a 5 man squad fielding a lascannon and a flamer (approx 200pts). maybe a few neophytes in there to fill the ranks. Then yes, as mentioned earlier, load up on POTMS vindis, which essentially have a 36" threat range, and give us an ap2 template for ~155pts. the other option would be autocannon/lascannon preds (which can be given POTMS, but I don't know if I would in this situation). anyways, for about less than 500 pts, you could get 5 lascannons, 2 autocannons, and a non nerfed chaplian

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Thanks for the comments guys ^_^

 

I'd really look at it in the sense of "what gaps can they fill that we don't already have?" It's mostly vehicles really... bikes, speeders, tanks, etc. As a general rule we don't have tanks or armored support. On the other hand, theme is also somewhat appropriate. I've been considering a tactical squad of Exorcists, one of my HQs, and then I could work in a Death Watch kill team (Sternguard unit) legally. Then again, having to have a troops choice to get the Death Watch is irritating...

 

I agree, Knights always struggle to bring even a handful of vehicles without Coteaz. You still don't get much with Mahrines though (unless you like Landspeeders, as nothing else comes in squadrons). Theme is always nice, but you wanna take useful stuff too.

 

Lysander is a fantastic HQ unit choice.

 

Not really, whatever he can kill our Terminators can already murder just fine (force weapons FTW). I'd prefer a different hero with Sternguard. Pedro for another scoring unit (and more attacks), or a BA Librarian for 'Prescience' (Sternguard special ammo gets kinda scary when they re-roll to hit).

 

Sadly, we won't be able to use our Allies Teleport Homers.

 

:cuss Sigh, I guess Ravenwing aren't our bros. Ah well, back to taking Mystics in Razorbacks with Coteaz

 

But on the whole, I don't *really* see the use of replacing points you would have spent on GK Marines, for Allied Marines.

 

Just take more GK.

 

Sternguard do offer something different, even if they are essentially pseudo-Purifiers (same cost per model, no psycannons only special rapid-fire ammo, can't attach cheap Inquisitors to them for 'Presience' as they need their own Libby). Contemptor Mortis is a freaking god, it murders Flyers and once it gets in range with the Kheres, infantry and light armour just evapourates (did I mention it has BS5?). Bikers offer a nice counterpoint to our 'hold the mid-field' style.

 

But yeah, I agree, for the most part they're just worse than moar Knights.

 

Put him in amongst your other units and he'll be fine. You only want him for Null Zone anyway. You'd be taking your own GK libby as well to do the real nasty stuff.

 

No not really, he's an expensive pointsink for just one power (and 'Null Zone' is situational at best). I'd take a regular Knight Librarian for similar points with a stave and the standard three powers.

 

My second army is Templars. If I were to use them as allies to save $, I would probably go with a cheap as chips chaplain with a 5 man squad fielding a lascannon and a flamer (approx 200pts). maybe a few neophytes in there to fill the ranks. Then yes, as mentioned earlier, load up on POTMS vindis, which essentially have a 36" threat range, and give us an ap2 template for ~155pts. the other option would be autocannon/lascannon preds (which can be given POTMS, but I don't know if I would in this situation). anyways, for about less than 500 pts, you could get 5 lascannons, 2 autocannons, and a non nerfed chaplian

 

POTMS Vindicators are scary, but your problem will be lack of saturation ie they can just focus fire it and it dies. So, if you wanted to bro up with Templars, I'd actually ally in the Knights instead.

[T3mpl@r Crusade]

yea, the focus fire will kill it, especially if they get side, which is a big thing in this edition since everything is now more mobile then ever. thats why if you go with vindis, you bring at least 2. one pred is usually ok parked at the back.

[Gentlemanloser]

Contemptor Mortis is a freaking god

 

Forge World though. :)

 

I *love* the GK Contemptor posted in this forum, beautiful. I'd run them as normal Dreads. ;)

 

If I get to use Forgeworld units, that Red Scorpian Librarian is the number 1 choice though!

 

2++ save and 6 Psychic Powers! LOLZ FW Y U BE TROLLING BRO! ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Forge World though.

 

Until you see definitive tournament rules stating 'no FW' (retarded, given that GW and FW have teamed up and are now labelling things '40k approved' or 'Apoc only' for that exact purpose), its valid. Also, they aren't cheap points wise, so fitting them in except by min-maxing with Scouts etc will be a struggle. Still..double Kheres and CML, its nasty.

 

If I get to use Forgeworld units, that Red Scorpian Librarian is the number 1 choice though!

 

2++ save and 6 Psychic Powers! LOLZ FW Y U BE TROLLING BRO!

 

On the plus side, unlike the annoying Shadowfields of DE (or the equally annoying nemesis staves we get), you can block it with a Rune Priest or Runes of Facemelt. He can only cast three powers, and given his hacky focus, its likely going to be 'Might'+invul, then leave one Warp Charge leftover to turn on force weapon. He is OP, but depending on what counters you bring (and how he's used), he may not be all that powerful in play.

 

IIRC, he's also an expensive little guy too, and you're forced to take Red Scorpions.