havoks!

[Brother Nathan]

im considering what to build next for my iron warriors and havoks are probably a good fluffy choice so considering the new rules, what would you equip a havok squad with and how many etc? is it worth going for a champ ? is mixing las and auto cannons as bad an idea as last ed? cheers!

[Jay Taint]

If I'm not running very low-point games I'm always taking the Champion, and if I do I'm always going for the power fist he's modeled with. My Havocs routinely attract deep-striking or jump pack assault units, which really is one reason to choose them. They also routinely die, but they take some pressure off my advance -- and with a squad large enough the fist takes down some assaulty guys too. And sometimes they don't get charged because they've got the fist, meaning they actually get to shoot, which is cool ...

I'm running squads of 7 (to please the Grandfather) with 2 heavy bolters and 2 autocannons. (Speaking of the fist and them being charged I'd expect that to be rather effective with Overwatch, by the way, but I didn't get to try that up to date.) They're doing well against MEQs and to some extent also against Terminators, and they're lots of fun. Mixing auto- and lascannons sounds like a great idea if you're to face mixed mech units -- although I'd drop the autocannons if it was only, or generally, massive armor.

 

Make sure to post pictures of your havocs when you're done with them. There's not enough havocs on this board.

 

Cheers, JT

[Brother Nathan]

thanks. btw this is for iron warriors, and i do have a good mix of opponents, nids, guard orks, crons eldars etc. hence why im asking about las and auto cannons(2 of each perhaps) my last matc vs orks(as a 6th trial) didnt go well as i simply didnt have enough anti light tanks or heavy tanks(oblits couldnt hold everything togehter as didnt have enough firepower) and im kinda hoping for these guys to improve in the next dex too.

so if i go for 2 auto and 2 las, and a champ(with fist, and combi to benifit from precision shots?) how many backup guys should i have? and woud an icon be worth it?

[Biaz]

I never run obliterators, its just a personal thing, i've never liked the look and their expensive, so when I need heavy support I always run havocs, and I can tell you that 8 times out of 10 the missile launcher has exactly what you need. I know now in 6th they don't have the ap2 bonus that lascannons have in regards to the damage chart, but they are still 15 points cheaper, and can effectively stomp MCs, light - medium vehicles and hordes, and would probably pair up better with autocannons then a lascannon would, because autocannons are also effective against nobs and tyranid warriors.

 

That being said, I don't normally mix weapons. I run a squad of autocannons and a squad of missle launchers, and just set each squad to a task, and depending how generous I feel i run 6-8 man squads, for extra bodies. I never buy a sergeant, if these guys get into cc then they're no longer of any use to me, a serge is just too expensive. However I might occasionally take an undivided icon, to prevent being shot off the board.

 

Hope I helped :ermm:

[Emperors Immortals]

I agree, Autos with ML are probably the best loadout all round, keep in mind you can still take a 6-7 man squad with 4 plasma/melta guns and a rhino, chuck in a icon of glory or nurgle and a champ and youve got a fast mobile squad that will not die. Expensive though <_<

[Excessus]

you can do that with an elite slot as well, without using the sought after heavy slots... <_<

[Zeratil]

I would say Autocannons, with the revised pen chart it's harder to hill vehicles with MLs, unless MLs get FAQ'd with a Flakk upgrade I would say go for autocannons for more shots to glance light armour to death.

[Xenith]

you can do that with an elite slot as well, without using the sought after heavy slots... ;)

Except that the havocs become scoring in 1/6 games :D

 

Ive used havocs in my IW force for a long time, 3ML+1AC+Tank hunters in the 3.5 dex was brutal, 4hvb+tank hunters also. The heavy bolters are amazingly effective at dealing with low armour troops and light vehicles (especially with hull points, now. Very low cost and can put out the hurt.

 

I used to run them at 5man, the champion gets nothing. My thoughts were that if your havocs are being charged, then you have pretty much lost them anyway. You want that squad to die in combat quickly so you can get back to shooting them attackers. My Lord was always my counter charge element, so the points would go on tooling him up.

 

It's an idea to take an ablative marine for every heavy weapon in the unit to keep the squad alive, so 4 heavies in an 8 man unit, it makes them less of a juicy target, as your opponents shooting will do less.

 

I have also had great success with a havoc plasma death squad - 10 havocs, rhino, 4 plasma guns, champ, plasma pistol. nasty.

[Brother Nihm]

I would say Autocannons, with the revised pen chart it's harder to hill vehicles with MLs, unless MLs get FAQ'd with a Flakk upgrade I would say go for autocannons for more shots to glance light armour to death.

That would be my preference as well.

 

2x 6 Man, /w 3 ACs @ 1500pts.

Let there be dakka.

[totgeboren]

I used a squad of 8 with 3 AC and 1 LC last ed (they were acually really handy against Eldar atleast. They often downed at least two enemy vehicles before getting killed). I havn't tried them out in 6ed yet, but they seem to be simply better, as they can overwatch and snap fire, so they are now a bit more flexible, and assaulting them is much more risky.

[darth_giles]

I would say Autocannons, with the revised pen chart it's harder to hill vehicles with MLs, unless MLs get FAQ'd with a Flakk upgrade I would say go for autocannons for more shots to glance light armour to death.

Only trouble with an autocannon or plasma is you can't even glance Armor 14. MLs can at least do that, although if you face a lot of armor 13 and 14 in your local meta, then I'd suggest going with lascannons and being done with it.

[the jeske]

but if he is taking las on havocks then he may as well take melta chosen or oblits for the same or less points and it will work better.

[Kristoff]

but if he is taking las on havocks then he may as well take melta chosen or oblits for the same or less points and it will work better.

Yes and no. 4 Lascannons will definitely do better against LRs at long range far better than melta chosen or even Oblits (who can only deploy 3, max).

 

As units get closer, melta becomes more and more an option, but even then, it's only better within 12" for the Heavy version and 6" for Assault. And that flexibility is where Obliterators truly shine. But if you are planning on sticking the unit in a ruin or building for cover, than Havoks are definitely a better option.

[minigun762]

I'm with Brother Nihm, 6 bodies/3 guns is a nice compromise and it just ends up being the exact same amount of points as a pair of oblits or a defiler so it allows for some easy unit swapping if you so desire.

 

 

As for lascannons, I'm not convinced that havoks are the best way to add them, when compared to oblits predators or even land raider. Lets look at a few typical havok loadouts:

 

5 bodies, 2 lascannons = Barely cheaper then 2 oblits for the same AT firepower. Worse saves but 1 more wound. No added mobility/flexibility.

5 bodies, 3 lascannons = 20% more expensive then 2 oblits for 50% extra AT firepower. Not durable enough for me, especially when the guns cost more then the bodies.

5 Bodies, 4 lascannons = Barely cheaper then either 3 oblits or a naked land raider. WAY too much invested into a 5 man squad.

 

6 bodies, 3 lascannons = This would be the best overall, you're coming in moderately underpriced compared to oblits and land raiders but the tri-las predator is cheaper and comes with a TL'd weapon.

 

8 bodies, 4 lascannons = The largest squad you're likely to use. Given the point investment, I think either a naked champ or IoCG for improved LD is a good buy. Its quite expensive, fairly durable and puts out more firepower then 3 oblits or the land raider. The biggest drawback is that I could field 2 AC/LC predators for the exact same price and get 2 free autocannons out of the deal though I would have to use 2 heavy slots.

[Excessus]

Nice with havoks and all, but I'd stay clear of modelling them until the new codex hits...

[darth_giles]

but if he is taking las on havocks then he may as well take melta chosen or oblits for the same or less points and it will work better.

Re-check the codex. Chosen are more expensive, and not much more useful than Havocs unless you need a Linebreaker unit.

 

 

Nice with havoks and all, but I'd stay clear of modelling them until the new codex hits...

Agreed. The only thing I'm likely to do is that daemon princess I've been meaning to convert for such a long time.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

but if he is taking las on havocks then he may as well take melta chosen or oblits for the same or less points and it will work better.

Re-check the codex. Chosen are more expensive, and not much more useful than Havocs unless you need a Linebreaker unit.

 

 

Chosen get Infiltrate/Outflank for the pittance in cost-per-model more than what Havocs can do. Load out melta Chosen and get them where they need to be to do their job, or load out melta Havocs and hope they get to do their job at all? Chosen win. Load out las Havocs that can't move and fire, or take Obliterators that get las along with the rest of the kitchen + the sink that can move and shoot in the same turn? Oblits win.

[Kristoff]

but if he is taking las on havocks then he may as well take melta chosen or oblits for the same or less points and it will work better.

Re-check the codex. Chosen are more expensive, and not much more useful than Havocs unless you need a Linebreaker unit.

 

 

Chosen get Infiltrate/Outflank for the pittance in cost-per-model more than what Havocs can do. Load out melta Chosen and get them where they need to be to do their job, or load out melta Havocs and hope they get to do their job at all? Chosen win. Load out las Havocs that can't move and fire, or take Obliterators that get las along with the rest of the kitchen + the sink that can move and shoot in the same turn? Oblits win.

Yeah, if you need to move your Havoks with Lascannons a lot, either your terrain sucks or you do. Havoks have one advantage and that is the number of Heavy barrels they can put out on the field which cannot be matched by any other unit in the codex. The fact that they can also take Specials is just a fun, "icing-on-the-cake" thing, imo. And Multimelta Havoks can actually be pretty dang effective, too, but I do believe that the ACs, MLs (especially if they ever get Flakks), and Lascannons are the way to go with these boys.

[Excessus]

I didn't know we could get Multimelta havocs...

[Kristoff]

I didn't know we could get Multimelta havocs...

Not right now, no, unless you're playing "Counts As" Loyalist. Who knows what the next book will have, though.

[Xenith]

I didn't know we could get Multimelta havocs...

Maybe he means multi as in the plural. As in multiple melta havocs, so 4 meltas in a rhino.

[Spear of Achilles]

heavy bolters and missile launchers. You glance glance most armor to death. Las, meh. It's prohibitive to use enough to really threaten a raider and as was said, combi melta termies would be better for raiders anyway. That all assumes you want to keepr ange. I always run plasma gun close-in havocs if I use them at all. Currently I'm thinking termy champ squads with Combi Plas are even more effective due to Precision Fire rolls on a '6'.

[Muskie]

I would say Autocannons, with the revised pen chart it's harder to hill vehicles with MLs, unless MLs get FAQ'd with a Flakk upgrade I would say go for autocannons for more shots to glance light armour to death.

That would be my preference as well.

 

2x 6 Man, /w 3 ACs @ 1500pts.

Let there be dakka.

 

When I finally got my autocannon havocs on the field they disappointed. I will see if the new rules change anything. I definitely think dakka is the DIY AA. I prefer vehicles for my HS but the quip about being scoring 1 out of 6 times, that doesn't apply to vehicles does it...

 

A long time ago I ran Plaguemarine Havocs with Plasma Guns, might have to dust that squad off for this edition. I think Defilers will be fun in 6th and I want to build a twin-linked lascannon with heavy bolter sponsons predator for a long time, the rules might be favourable to that build now.

 

I want to use more Elite options particularly outflanking Chosen. I've always liked that tactic and I'm thinking of doubling down and running two squads of Chosen to keep my opponent on edge or away from the table edges as the case may be.

 

The new codex still trumps all, as Plaguemarines might be elite without a special character and as for Plaguemarine Havocs or even Nurgle Renegade Havocs well they might be impossible or just expensive. I intend to field at least one squad of cultists maybe two, going from very expensive troops to cheap troops will free up points for things like Havocs.

 

No advocates for havocs with plasmas in rhinos?

[*Furyou Miko]

Actually, HS Vehicles DO count as scoring in BGNT, unless they're immobilised.

[the jeske]

No advocates for havocs with plasmas in rhinos?

well the thing is that for not much more points you get an identical unit of chosen who have infiltrate.

 

now I fix the gav dex units.

 

Raptors . hit and run

 

NM . sonic blasters build in .

 

havocks . on a +6 to wound/penterate weapon is ap 1.

 

spawn. you buy spawn you pick a mark for it free of charge . 65pts upgrade to huge spawn +1str +1t +d6A . 1 huge spawn per slot.

 

dreads . late FAQ LoS change , can buy marks at HQ cost . tzeench is inv + psychic power[bA/GK dreads] , nurgle is +1armor +destroyer hive[aka defensive and assault 'nades] slanes is syren instead flamer/blast master instead of hvy weapon +1I . khorn is +d6A rage [yes that does mean d6+2 +normal A on charge in 6th ed]

 

termis . reaper is cost cut in half . icon is a deep strike upgrade , they buy marks[csm/havocks/raptors still get the old icons that can die] and go cult . FC for khorn , FnP+1T for nurgle . +1inv +champs can buy psychic powers , slanesh syren/reaper is blaster +1I.

 

chosen . same stats , buy marks like terminators . +25 pts each .+1W each .

 

 

 

behold how I made the gav dex better.