Blood Claws in 6th

[trev55555]

Hail Brothers

As some people may have seen from my recent posts Iam trying to put together a 750pt, mainly footslogging, fluffy, allcomer, friendly, without long fangs, learn 6th ed, tournament list.

So having said the above i was wondering what were your thoughts on Blood Claws ( Iam thinking of running a pack maybe 9 or 10 strong with a tda WG or a Wolf Priest.....?

[dswanick]

Hail Brothers

As some people may have seen from my recent posts Iam trying to put together a 750pt, mainly footslogging, fluffy, allcomer, friendly, without long fangs, learn 6th ed, tournament list.

So having said the above i was wondering what were your thoughts on Blood Claws ( Iam thinking of running a pack maybe 9 or 10 strong with a tda WG or a Wolf Priest.....?

Wolf Priest, Saga of the Hunter, Outflank them. :lol:

[Daddywarcrimes]

Hail Brothers

As some people may have seen from my recent posts Iam trying to put together a 750pt, mainly footslogging, fluffy, allcomer, friendly, without long fangs, learn 6th ed, tournament list.

So having said the above i was wondering what were your thoughts on Blood Claws ( Iam thinking of running a pack maybe 9 or 10 strong with a tda WG or a Wolf Priest.....?

Wolf Priest, Saga of the Hunter, Outflank them. :tu:

 

Blood Claws are really a bad choice for outflanking. They can't assault the turn they arrive, and they are ballistically inept. Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard are a much better choice for outflanking. For Blood Claws, hurl them upfield to force your opponent to maneuver to either intercept or evade them.

[dswanick]

Hail Brothers

As some people may have seen from my recent posts Iam trying to put together a 750pt, mainly footslogging, fluffy, allcomer, friendly, without long fangs, learn 6th ed, tournament list.

So having said the above i was wondering what were your thoughts on Blood Claws ( Iam thinking of running a pack maybe 9 or 10 strong with a tda WG or a Wolf Priest.....?

Wolf Priest, Saga of the Hunter, Outflank them. :tu:

 

Blood Claws are really a bad choice for outflanking. They can't assault the turn they arrive, and they are ballistically inept. Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard are a much better choice for outflanking. For Blood Claws, hurl them upfield to force your opponent to maneuver to either intercept or evade them.

They can, however, Outflank into terrain for a Cover save against the one round of shooting (with a +1 to their Cover save thanks to Stealth). And the Wolf Priest helps makes up for their "ballistic ineptidue". They will represent a dangerous thorn in your opponent's side, which they'll want to deal with an inordinate amount of firepower to try and deny you your charge bonus. One of the greatest weaknesses of Blood Claws is maneuvering a large pack of them into a position where they can actually be useful - Outflank accomplishes this. And they're scoring, to boot.

[trev55555]

Thanks for the input so far.... any more thoughts people ?

[Vassakov]

Far worse than in 5th, to my mind. The lack of being able to assault out of even stationary transports makes them far more vunarable to enemy fire. BS and WS 3 also impair them and snap fire makes their traditional "ram them down the enemies throat" less effective.

 

On bikes, with impact hits and greater toughness they'll probably be ok with standard Claws... Just get more Grey Hunters.

[Daddywarcrimes]

Far worse than in 5th, to my mind. The lack of being able to assault out of even stationary transports makes them far more vunarable to enemy fire. BS and WS 3 also impair them and snap fire makes their traditional "ram them down the enemies throat" less effective.

 

On bikes, with impact hits and greater toughness they'll probably be ok with standard Claws... Just get more Grey Hunters.

 

Bringing them onto the board and sitting there looking pretty for a turn will be a recipe for dead Claws. Either they get shot to crap with small arms fire that ignores their Stealth, or they get assaulted and wrecked to deprive them of their charge bonus.

 

I'm looking at messing around with Skyclaws first, and then Swiftclaws though I'm 99% sure the bikes are better.

[Wysten]

Blood claws are amusing, but much of what they can do is done just as well as their Greyer Brothers. Theres really no reason to take them unless your going to take advantage of the sheer weight in their unit.

 

I prefer Skyclaws and maybe swift claws, they have the mobility to provide quite a nasty bite, and hugely benfit from the new preferred enemy rules, though not saga of the hunter.

[Valerian]

I'm looking at messing around with Skyclaws first, and then Swiftclaws though I'm 99% sure the bikes are better.

 

The Bikes are definitely better, but Sky Claws are pretty damned cheap for Jump Infantry (18 points each, if memory serves?). My biggest heart-burn with 6e Jump Infantry is having to choose between using your jump pack in the Movement phase and the Assault phase - they should have just allowed you to take advantage of it at all times. The bikes don't have that drawback, and always get to move 12' while still taking advantage of Hammer of Wrath. That, combined with Twin-linked shooting, and the "natural" T5, mean that Swift Claws win hands down. Hell, you can even attach a Wolf Guard Leader to Swift Claws, if you want, which you can't do with Sky Claws.

 

Valerian

[narf]

Valerain, even in 5th you only got to use your JP in the movement phase, you now have the choice, and a benefit for being better placed tactically, for less points.

 

anyways , blood claws, i keep toying with 13 in a LR-Crusader, with a wold priest and TDA WG outflanking.

 

You turn up in your tank, and move on, the tank shoots, everyone stays nice and cosy inside the tank.

your opponent spends an inordinate amount of time trying to pop your armour 14 vehicle.

your turn you can move, and also dismount 6" ( combined with last turns move you should be able to reach 33%-50% of a board this way) & charge!

 

 

woooot

 

not tried it yet though

[cECoMaSTa]

BTW is Lucas Character?

[Daddywarcrimes]

BTW is Lucas Character?

 

Lukas the Trickster is a character, and is actually quite good for challenges.

[Gertjan]

anyways , blood claws, i keep toying with 13 in a LR-Crusader, with a wold priest and TDA WG outflanking.

 

You turn up in your tank, and move on, the tank shoots, everyone stays nice and cosy inside the tank.

your opponent spends an inordinate amount of time trying to pop your armour 14 vehicle.

your turn you can move, and also dismount 6" ( combined with last turns move you should be able to reach 33%-50% of a board this way) & charge!

 

 

woooot

 

not tried it yet though

 

I've been thinking about this aswell, it's a bit of an expensive option though, reckon it would hit the 600pts mark. But simply the utter "In your face" attitude of it appeals to me, no nonsense nor any tactics, just deliver a truckload of loony wolves straight into an enemy line :D .

 

That and even if it doesn't work, it seems like one of the possible uses for Blood Claws, and since I'll run Ragnar, I feel that Blood Claws are a neccesary part of the list (and who doesn't like big ass tanks) B)

[hendrik]

anyways , blood claws, i keep toying with 13 in a LR-Crusader, with a wold priest and TDA WG outflanking.

 

You turn up in your tank, and move on, the tank shoots, everyone stays nice and cosy inside the tank.

your opponent spends an inordinate amount of time trying to pop your armour 14 vehicle.

your turn you can move, and also dismount 6" ( combined with last turns move you should be able to reach 33%-50% of a board this way) & charge!

 

 

woooot

 

not tried it yet though

 

I've been thinking about this aswell, it's a bit of an expensive option though, reckon it would hit the 600pts mark. But simply the utter "In your face" attitude of it appeals to me, no nonsense nor any tactics, just deliver a truckload of loony wolves straight into an enemy line :D .

 

That and even if it doesn't work, it seems like one of the possible uses for Blood Claws, and since I'll run Ragnar, I feel that Blood Claws are a neccesary part of the list (and who doesn't like big ass tanks) B)

while it may sound cool etc wouldn't it be more interesting to do this with a wolf guard pack? 10 wolfguard will still be cheaper then 13 bloodclaws, have the same amount attacks on the charge(4 each if armed with boltpistol+CCW). they will have a higher Ld, better WS (so get hit less often), you can protect ragnar from any challenge by sacrificing a standard wolf guard and las tbut not least each 6 you'll roll is a wound you cana ssign to whatever model you want....

and this is all without mentioning that the landraider you buy is even a dedicated vehicle, so the wolf guard are able to start the game inside of it.

[d@n]

Hail Brothers

As some people may have seen from my recent posts Iam trying to put together a 750pt, mainly footslogging, fluffy, allcomer, friendly, without long fangs, learn 6th ed, tournament list.

So having said the above i was wondering what were your thoughts on Blood Claws ( Iam thinking of running a pack maybe 9 or 10 strong with a tda WG or a Wolf Priest.....?

Wolf Priest, Saga of the Hunter, Outflank them. :D

 

Blood Claws are really a bad choice for outflanking. They can't assault the turn they arrive, and they are ballistically inept. Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard are a much better choice for outflanking. For Blood Claws, hurl them upfield to force your opponent to maneuver to either intercept or evade them.

blood claws are the best choice for outflanking imo as they can soke up alot more fire due to there numbers and putting out more attacks means you can afford to loose more of them. if you loose 5 gray hunters out of a unit of 10 then that unit is pretty much spent but if you loose 5 blood claws out of your unit of 15 then its no big deal plus your still putting out 25% more attacks then that full squad of 10 grey hunters would of.

[Gertjan]

anyways , blood claws, i keep toying with 13 in a LR-Crusader, with a wold priest and TDA WG outflanking.

 

You turn up in your tank, and move on, the tank shoots, everyone stays nice and cosy inside the tank.

your opponent spends an inordinate amount of time trying to pop your armour 14 vehicle.

your turn you can move, and also dismount 6" ( combined with last turns move you should be able to reach 33%-50% of a board this way) & charge!

 

 

woooot

 

not tried it yet though

 

I've been thinking about this aswell, it's a bit of an expensive option though, reckon it would hit the 600pts mark. But simply the utter "In your face" attitude of it appeals to me, no nonsense nor any tactics, just deliver a truckload of loony wolves straight into an enemy line :) .

 

That and even if it doesn't work, it seems like one of the possible uses for Blood Claws, and since I'll run Ragnar, I feel that Blood Claws are a neccesary part of the list (and who doesn't like big ass tanks) B)

while it may sound cool etc wouldn't it be more interesting to do this with a wolf guard pack? 10 wolfguard will still be cheaper then 13 bloodclaws, have the same amount attacks on the charge(4 each if armed with boltpistol+CCW). they will have a higher Ld, better WS (so get hit less often), you can protect ragnar from any challenge by sacrificing a standard wolf guard and las tbut not least each 6 you'll roll is a wound you cana ssign to whatever model you want....

and this is all without mentioning that the landraider you buy is even a dedicated vehicle, so the wolf guard are able to start the game inside of it.

 

Yeah, wolfguard would be better but personally I don't want to run to many of them and I already have a lot of wg termies (these were the models that got me back into Space Wolves in the first place after a 15year break from them so I want to include them ;) ). But you are right though that other units would most likely be better at it but I want to include Blood Claws and it feels like fun doing it that way (at least in my head :P ) even if they are probably the least usefull unit to pull it off with.

[Wulfebane]

while it may sound cool etc wouldn't it be more interesting to do this with a wolf guard pack? 10 wolfguard will still be cheaper then 13 bloodclaws, have the same amount attacks on the charge(4 each if armed with boltpistol+CCW). they will have a higher Ld, better WS (so get hit less often), you can protect ragnar from any challenge by sacrificing a standard wolf guard and las tbut not least each 6 you'll roll is a wound you cana ssign to whatever model you want.... and this is all without mentioning that the landraider you buy is even a dedicated vehicle, so the wolf guard are able to start the game inside of it.

 

Wolf Guard as a pack being entirely made of Characters is still unproven, and in fact a recent post on warseer claims to have spoken with Jervis and some GW rules writers who say only a model leading a unit may claim "character" status, ie pack leaders, citing WG units specifically (the poster forgot to inquire about GK paladins).

 

Until its cleared up, I wouldn't suggest using that strat, nor recommend it to others... For now anyway.

 

Aside from that, given the OP's intent to use Ragnar, WG statistically won't have as many attacks as BCs (especially a larger pack) when Berserk Charge and the +d3 are factored in. If you'd rather sacrifice the attacks for higher WS, it isn't a bad choice, and may in fact even out in successful Wounds, but I don't think it can "beat" BCs on the outcome.

[hendrik]

the key wulfbane, is not just the charge, but also the turns thereafter,afterall you'll never want to completly obliterate your opponent in a single turn of combat (and allow him to fire on you in the next one at full BS), ideally an opponents unit should be broken during his own turn.

Let's forget about ragnar for a minute and compare both units*:

on the charge; 15 bloodclaws have a total of 60'ish attacks where a wolf guard pack with boltpistols and CCW will "only" have 40.

in the next turn: 15 bloodclaws (say they magically lose no model at all) have 30 attacks whereass the wolf guard have the exact same amount.

This would mean bloodclaws are definetly better, no?

NO, because your claws will get hit more ofter due to their lower WS. the wolf guard also have more options to tool them for combat,making them effectively one of THE best close combat units available to us. also take into account the lower ld of bloodclaws

 

 

*also take into accoutn that the wolfguard unit still has 45pts left to spend on upgrades before they reach equal points

[Wulfebane]

I wasn't disagreeing on all those points.. I was basing it exclusively on Ragnar being there. But I overlooked making sure not to obliterate the opponent round 1 and what effects carry for round 2, so I'll concede to that as the better option.

[hendrik]

it's a lesson one learns quickly when one cuts right through a necron unit, only to find himself in rapid fire range of most of the rest of said necron army :)

[dswanick]

the key wulfbane, is not just the charge, but also the turns thereafter,afterall you'll never want to completly obliterate your opponent in a single turn of combat (and allow him to fire on you in the next one at full BS), ideally an opponents unit should be broken during his own turn.

Let's forget about ragnar for a minute and compare both units*:

on the charge; 15 bloodclaws have a total of 60'ish attacks where a wolf guard pack with boltpistols and CCW will "only" have 40.

in the next turn: 15 bloodclaws (say they magically lose no model at all) have 30 attacks whereass the wolf guard have the exact same amount.

This would mean bloodclaws are definetly better, no?

NO, because your claws will get hit more ofter due to their lower WS. the wolf guard also have more options to tool them for combat,making them effectively one of THE best close combat units available to us. also take into account the lower ld of bloodclaws

 

 

*also take into accoutn that the wolfguard unit still has 45pts left to spend on upgrades before they reach equal points

The flaw in your thinking, hendrik, is that everyone wants to use their Blood Claws the same way that you do - bring a unit in, crash it into an enemy, grind them down, and come out with enough troops to move on to the next enemy, rinse & repeat.

 

If, however, the goal is to bring in the unit, crash it into the enemy, wipe the enemy in a convincing manner, then consolidate onto an objective with a Scoring unit, forcing your opponent to make some target priority decisions he may not want to make, and could make poorly - you can't accomplish this unless you're also fielding Logan to make the WG Scoring.

 

And that's also the one thing Blood Claws have over every other "Claw" unit - scoring. Finally, before anyone pipes up with "if you want scoring Grey Hunters > Blood Claws", please read the OP post. He wants, among other things, "fluff, fun, learn 6th Ed". Then he goes on to ask specifically about Blood Claws. :)

[hendrik]

how about painting the wolf guard /grey hutners as bloodclaws? I never found our fluff to be fitting my models anyway (astartes just die to easely ;) ) but you're right dswan ;) I recognise my failing and am sure to correct it ;)

the point is, that, unless you want to absolutly field bloodclaws, there is no point in fielding them compared to other viable options (i'dd even say grey hunters are a better assault unit when we're talking about 10 man units)

[Ikken]

so if you are going to use them , would it be better to run a full 15 man squad ?

I can see how a 15 man squad and a wolf priest outflanking would scare the crap out of an opponent . and force him to deal with them , even the threat of them would be intimidating .

[dswanick]

so if you are going to use them , would it be better to run a full 15 man squad ?

I can see how a 15 man squad and a wolf priest outflanking would scare the crap out of an opponent . and force him to deal with them , even the threat of them would be intimidating .

I think this is the best way to get the most out of the Blood Claw unit. Max size = max attacks and max durability. The biggest limiting factor for this choice was always the mobility issue - needing a 250pt ride to get them where they could hurt someone. Now we have a 10pt alternative...

[trev55555]

so if you are going to use them , would it be better to run a full 15 man squad ?

I can see how a 15 man squad and a wolf priest outflanking would scare the crap out of an opponent . and force him to deal with them , even the threat of them would be intimidating .

I think this is the best way to get the most out of the Blood Claw unit. Max size = max attacks and max durability. The biggest limiting factor for this choice was always the mobility issue - needing a 250pt ride to get them where they could hurt someone. Now we have a 10pt alternative...

 

10pt alternative.........?

 

I was going to field 9 or 10 BCs and a Wolf Priest