Building a GK army - assistance needed

[Slyfox1990]

So I've just started putting together a Grey Knights army and was hoping I'd be able to get some advice/suggestions on how I might want to expand it/initially run it. I've got a specific selection of models to play around with but am totally unsure how it will all come together.

 

Currently owned:

 

20 PAGK - 2 halberds, 4 psycannons (obviously enough to build two squads)

1 Dreadknight - Sword and Heavy psycannon

1 Razorback/Rhino - TL-Heavy Bolter

5 Terminators (unmade)

 

Techmarine - servo-harness, 2 HB servitors, 2 normal

Coteaz

Stern

Crowe

 

At the moment I'm not sure where to go.

 

I know that I will get, 2 x "Psyfileman" Dreads, but not sure beyond that.

 

Are razorbacks viable? If so I feel a bit limited only having a small squad inside of it (unless it's sitting on an object or some such). However I'm not so keen on walking about the place. Was thinking about taking Coteaz, getting a henchman squad and placing in cover with a techmarine with plasma cannon servitors? But that still leaves me unsure. Perhaps deep striking force of PAGK and Dreadknight(s) backed up with afformentioned units? If so I've no clue where to put Coteaz.

 

As you can see I've no idea so all advice is welcome :tu:

[the jeske]

Well first of all you need two storm ravens . second you need more terminators . being troops and +2sv and having psycannons always with more shots is too good to pass. then you should take a Libby and a GK or a GK and a Inq[am trying to build a list of stuff you have and not go buy 50 IG and make a cortez razor spam] .

 

If your using power armored GKs then take bigger squads .

 

NDK should have a hvy incinerator . shouldnt be run alone , there should either be two of them or a unit of interceptors to support it [but again being in same slots as SR doesnt help NDK a lot].

 

As what to do with the stuff you have .

 

Well stern becomes your GM . cortez stays cortez even without henchman he is still cheap gets access to new powers and re-rolls for starting. you take the termis and put the GM inside . you make one of the 10 mans an interceptor squad and run it in a combo with the NDK. you dont take a single aV11 transport unless you plan to hide it till you get first blood. technicly you could take the razor and put cortez and the servis inside , but that is more a points filler imo. Ah and of course the second troop option will be the strike squad . Do not put the hammers on your leaders .

[Inquisitor Fox]

Actually a Dreadknight is a heavy and a Grey Knights Storm Raven is a fast. They play together just fine.

 

I would definitely get another squad or two of Terminators. I would set up one of your squads as Interceptors (a lot of folk seem to have a good deal of success with them), or split it to have a small squad of Interceptors and a small squad of say, Purifiers. Couple of different ways you can go with them.

[Gentlemanloser]

INP, I think Jeske was talking about Interceptors there. ;)

 

Can't get 2 squads of them to support the NDK, as you've already used 2 Fast slots for the SR.

 

Just Take a GK SR, and ally in a Bangle SR. ;) Job done!

 

Or play 2K and use 2 FoC.

[Abaddonshand]

You could still run a Dreadknight, 2 storm ravens and an interceptor squad without interfering with FOC slots of course, you're talking roughly 950pts and that's no scoring units on the board.

[Valerian]

You could still run a Dreadknight, 2 storm ravens and an interceptor squad without interfering with FOC slots of course, you're talking roughly 950pts and that's no scoring units on the board.

 

Well, no scoring units until the Grand Master makes the Dreadknight and Interceptor Squad scoring units.

 

V

[Inquisitor Fox]

INP, I think Jeske was talking about Interceptors there. :)

That does make considerably more sense that way... B)

You could still run a Dreadknight, 2 storm ravens and an interceptor squad without interfering with FOC slots of course, you're talking roughly 950pts and that's no scoring units on the board.

Yeah, but that's room to add two Terminator squads, an HQ, and a Strike Squad to garrison an objective while you destroy things. Granted it's more fun to also throw Dreadnoughts on the Storm Ravens too, but that'd be a larger game thing.

[the jeske]

Actually a Dreadknight is a heavy and a Grey Knights Storm Raven is a fast. They play together just fine

they dont , because the NDK takes up the points slot for the SR. to use both one of them would have to be free.

 

 

 

I think Jeske was talking about Interceptors there.

no I dont . Its either 2 NDKs or a NDK+interceptors combo . neither the NDK nor the interceptor unit should be run alone and both do not fit in to the list because they eat up the points for flyers. Rest of the list has no stuff to drop. you cant play with 1 unit of troops , nor can you play without a GM and a inq/libby.

[Abaddonshand]

Fliers are nowhere near the game breaking must takes that the interwebs seems think believe they are, especially not our fliers. Grey Knights can't do an air cav list without making too many sacrifices elsewhere IMO. Any GK flier heavy list is going to be vastly outclassed by IG and Necrons.

[Slyfox1990]

Thanks for the responses - some interesting propositions going on there.

 

I've pretty much stumped for getting:

 

10 x Strike Squad

10 x Interceptors

2 x Dreads w/ 2xTL-Autocannon

10 x Terminators

Dreadknight

Stern as GM

 

It may not work well but that basically takes me to 1500-1600 and means I can play games and see what I like. No point in my jumping at Stormravens for £50~ a pop when I don't really know them. Long term I can then expand with more models depending how I like things.

[spartan249]

I suggest strongly against acquiring any dreadnoughts. Over 600 games now, I've been getting first hand experience with the capabilities and realistic expectations of dreadnoughts, and they simply can not compare to any other unit you can get. They're too expensive, too incapable in both shooting and assault, and simply too sluggish.

 

I suggest that you look instead at more PAGKs, Terminators, Paladins, Dreadknights, or Stormravens, as they bring much more staying power, killing power, and utility then any variant of dreadnought ever will.

 

Only reason you should ever consider including a single dread in your list would be because of Reinforced Aegis.

[Gentlemanloser]

Psybolt Autocannon Dreads still make everyone cry. Including Fliers.

 

Luckily for us, Fortitude was only 5 points...

 

Now, if we'd been able to swap out any power, on any unit, bar Hammerhand. Oh glorious days!

[spartan249]

Really? It made a stealth suit team laugh it's ass off for 4 turns and tickled a stormraven for an entire game to no effect.

 

My purgation squads do a hell of a lot more then my psydreads have ever done, even in 5th.

 

Others may not care about the inefficiency of dreads, but I'm done trying to make them work. They just don't, especially when they're compared to all the other great options in C:GK.

[Slyfox1990]

Spartan - thanks for the personal info on dreads. I may well not end up liking them but on the face of it they sound nice and I'd like to give them a try. If nothing else I find them visually appealing and that is an important factor for me.

 

Depending how I like the army in generally, I would be likely to expand in various directions and see what suits me. Early doors I may as well use what I like the sounds of.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

20 PAGK - 2 halberds, 4 psycannons (obviously enough to build two squads)

 

Hmmm...make a single squad of Purifiers out of them, using all the psycannons and halberd dudes. Do you have some extra halberds and a hammer to re-model the remaining guys? This is basically what I'd be leaning towards;

 

Flame Knight w/halberd, Purifier w/hammer, 4 x Purifiers w/halberds, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons

 

1 Dreadknight - Sword and Heavy psycannon

 

Ah, same error I made when I assembled mine. Incinerator is actually the better option, although you can always go without guns to save points. Greatsword is mandatory of course, and make sure you give him a teleporter in your army list.

 

1 Razorback/Rhino - TL-Heavy Bolter

 

Make it a Rhino, it can be used to transport the Purifiers into the mid-field (doesn't matter if it dies, so long as they get to the mid-field relatively intact they can start laying down firepower). That is, if you don't get a Chimera or two later (see below)

 

5 Terminators (unmade)

 

You'll need another Terminator box, regular Terminators don't work as combat squads (unlike Paladins). You'll want this eventually;

 

Justicar w/halberd, Terminator w/Bro Banner, 2 x Terminators w/hammers, 2 x Terminators w/halberd+psycannon, 4 x Terminators w/halberds

 

Techmarine - servo-harness, 2 HB servitors, 2 normal

 

Tech-Marine...he's good with grenades and a conversion beamer, not 1000% required though (Bolster is nice but not mandatory). With the servitors, they'll be with Coteaz. Rip off the heavy bolters, re-model them with plasma cannons. If you can, convert one of the remaining normal guys to have a plasma cannon as well. The last servitor can be a Mystic or just a cheap Acolyte for catching rounds on the unit.

 

Coteaz

Stern

Crowe

 

Coteaz is awesome, definitely include him (his minimum plasma cannon unit, plus your TDA blob, fulfills mandatory Troops, thus making Purifiers able to be fielded).

 

Stern is a bad joke, he's worse than even Mordrak

 

Crowe...urgh, no. If you must have scoring Purifiers (I've never seen the need), take a Grandmaster and Grand Strategy them. Purifier armies are expensive and die too easily.

 

I know that I will get, 2 x "Psyfileman" Dreads, but not sure beyond that.

 

That's a given. Pro-tip; the Aegis line is a nice investment, as it nets you the autocannon bits to model your Dreadnoughts (one arm each, pick up the other from eBay or FW), and it can be used in the game as well (as a Fortification, for example as a bunker for the Purifiers).

 

Are razorbacks viable? If so I feel a bit limited only having a small squad inside of it (unless it's sitting on an object or some such). However I'm not so keen on walking about the place. Was thinking about taking Coteaz, getting a henchman squad and placing in cover with a techmarine with plasma cannon servitors? But that still leaves me unsure. Perhaps deep striking force of PAGK and Dreadknight(s) backed up with afformentioned units? If so I've no clue where to put Coteaz.

 

Razorbacks are only viable with Henchmen. Stuff a 3-man min unit inside (so they can hop out Turn 5 and score things). You can go el cheapo and just field BolterBacks (S6 dakka is nice, if a little limited). The other end of the scale is the las/plas Razorback (hurts the enemy from Turn 1, and when you get close the plasma gun is pretty good), or the slightly more expensive (due to psybolt upgrade) twin-AC Razor (with the psybolts, its basically a twin-psycannon turret anyway).

 

For Coteaz and his plasma cannon servitors (the Tech-Marine with a conversion beamer makes a nice addition, as he'll benefit from 'Prescience' and the conversion beamer is another rare long-range gun in your army), a Chimera is a better option. It brings a pair of decent anti-infantry/light armour guns, higher front AV (and a wide front facing to make it count), and of course the ability to fire five dudes from within. Hell, if you can manage it, try and get a Henchmen Chimera for the Purifiers, they love it (quad psycannon out of it is just gravy).

 

 

I wouldn't get anymore PAGK, 20 is plenty for making Purifiers (you'll field a maximum of 2 squads of them, three is overdoing it and eating up points you'll need elsewhere). So, for a future buy-list;

 

- Two Dreadnoughts

- Another Terminator box

- A couple of Razors (sort out your list first)

- A Chimera for Coteaz and his retinue, another if you wish to have a good bunker for the Purifiers

- An Aegis line for making PsyDreads (alternatively get the arms off eBay/FW)

 

With those purchases, you should have a good baseline. If you want to add more Henchmen (for example, to unlock the Razorbacks you want, or to unlock that Purifier Chimera), getting cheap Imperial Guard models off eBay works well. Failing that, a single squad box of IG nets you enough manz for three min Acolyte units.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Thanks for the responses - some interesting propositions going on there.

 

I've pretty much stumped for getting:

 

10 x Strike Squad

10 x Interceptors

2 x Dreads w/ 2xTL-Autocannon

10 x Terminators

Dreadknight

Stern as GM

 

It may not work well but that basically takes me to 1500-1600 and means I can play games and see what I like. No point in my jumping at Stormravens for £50~ a pop when I don't really know them. Long term I can then expand with more models depending how I like things.

I think that's a great attitude and great approach. I also think that selection of units is very well rounded and can easily be expanded in almost any direction. It'll form a really good core (three troops choices (I run termies as 5 man), one fast attack, two elites/heavy, one heavy, one HQ) that is easily supplemented and has no real "wrong" choices. Hopefully you'll enjoy it!

[thade]

Re-read what the esteemed Inquisitor Nic has said here. :tu: It's important.

 

Even if you want to be a big mean tournie player some day, there are two things to keep in mind with regards to list-building: 1. you'll still want to be friendly and not a jerk, even when being competitive; and 2. you will want a list that fits your play-style.

 

What is your play-style? No way to know without playing a few games (actually, as many games as possible) and what better way to do that than with a well-rounded, all-comers list? :) You'll learn more from losing than winning; and learning to have a great time while losing is fundamental to really enjoying the hobby.

 

Also, enjoy the modelling and painting. ;) I never did anything like it until I got into this game (what, three or four years ago now?) and now I'm hooked.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

10 x Strike Squad

10 x Interceptors

 

They're both a waste of points in this edition. 'Warp Quake' is situational at best, and even when it is relevant, the enemy can always just choose to land out of range (and on top of that, the Mishap chart is more forgiving now). Castling achieves the same thing. Strikes in particular suffer from being more than Tac Marines, they suck in combat, but want to be in the mid-field to use their 24" guns. Unlike Purifiers or TDA units, they don't wanna move, as they only get two non-Relentless psycannons to shoot with. For only ~100pts more, you can have Purifiers, who are an amazing MeQ unit (still just as fragile to shooting).

 

Interceptors are expensive, especially for the full unit. If you're really that keen on them, take a 5-man squad with an incinerator and Justicar hammer. That way, they end up being cheaper than the Dreadknight (your other backfield harassment unit), and you haven't sunk a Landraiders points into them (they're still just as tough and bad in combat as Strikes).

 

Terminator core was already better in 5th, now in 6th with lower cover and the power weapon nerf, they're even more potent. You already have one unit of them, I'd suggest getting another or using the points from the Strikes+Interceptors to make a Purifier squad for mid-field presence.

 

Stern as GM

 

Eh, Grandmasters do bring a lot of utility, but with scoring Terminators already (and the inability to charge from Outflank nerfing the Scout bonus), how badly do you need more scoring units? Coteaz and a TDA Inquisitor clock in at only a handful more points. Coteaz nets you his plasma cannon unit to fill mandatory Troops and some AP2 fire support, whilst the TDA Inquisitor hands out re-rolls to hit and another hammer+psycannon for your Terminators.

 

 

(I run termies as 5 man)

 

Why? They are so manifestly bad at 5-man. Paladins work just fine, but that is because you get double psycannon and WS5 (and two wounds apiece). It's like Purifiers vs Strike Knights; you pay ~100pts extra, but you're getting so much more value and power.

 

Even if you want to be a big mean tournie player some day, there are two things to keep in mind with regards to list-building: 1. you'll still want to be friendly and not a jerk, even when being competitive; and 2. you will want a list that fits your play-style.

 

I'd refine that to be 'write the list you want and play it how you want'. Don't worry too much about what others think, so long as you're not cheating they have no reason to complain.

 

What is your play-style? No way to know without playing a few games (actually, as many games as possible) and what better way to do that than with a well-rounded, all-comers list? You'll learn more from losing than winning; and learning to have a great time while losing is fundamental to really enjoying the hobby.

 

This is so true. Knights in particular need a fair amount of breaking in, as our combined arms approach is quite different to other Marines (who are either shooty, fast or close-combat orientated, rarely all three). Getting used to moving close enough to use our guns, but not close enough to get charged too early takes practise. The newer units like Interceptors and Dreadknights are different again, as they work best isolated in the enemy backline eating stuff like Lootas or Long Fangs. The core phalanx formation for Knights is also something Marines don't do. We also don't have a lot of mechanised units normally, so a foot-slogging Marine list is slower than the norm.

[Inquisitor Fox]

(I run termies as 5 man)

 

Why? They are so manifestly bad at 5-man. Paladins work just fine, but that is because you get double psycannon and WS5 (and two wounds apiece). It's like Purifiers vs Strike Knights; you pay ~100pts extra, but you're getting so much more value and power.

Not really. As a Troops choice, they are cheaper than Paladins, more durable than Strikes (assuming no cover and out in the open). A 5 man unit has a fundamentally smaller footprint than a 10 man and works much better for transports or deep striking. I find large blobs of Terminator armor too large to maneuver or operate well. I would prefer to have 2 separate units of 5 rather than one unit of 10, and while I could technically just take one and combat squad it, I find separate units suits my play style and reserve rolls better than one large blob.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Not really. As a Troops choice, they are cheaper than Paladins, more durable than Strikes (assuming no cover and out in the open). A 5 man unit has a fundamentally smaller footprint than a 10 man and works much better for transports or deep striking. I find large blobs of Terminator armor too large to maneuver or operate well. I would prefer to have 2 separate units of 5 rather than one unit of 10, and while I could technically just take one and combat squad it, I find separate units suits my play style and reserve rolls better than one large blob.

 

Well you should never be out in the open, that just makes them plasma bait.

 

If you want a smaller footprint, take Paladins. 5 normal Terminators just don't hit hard enough with enough attacks to justify the investment. For the same price, you can field more bodies, or for ~100pts more, you can field a 10-man Purifier unit with quad psycannon and a handful of halberds+hammer (which has more dakka output and similiar combat performance, plus more wounds and 'Cleansing Flame' to bail them out of tarpits, which Terminators are terrible against).

 

The blob takes some getting used to, but its no more or less difficult to use than PaladinStar. The idea with a Termie blob is to draw fire and tie up as much of your opponent army as possible; they can threaten even more of the board now that 6th edition has random charge range (which cuts both ways I know, but it means people have to factor in you can charge further if you roll well). It also works great as a screening element to a mech force, I use mine with Coteaz Razorspam to block charge lanes (which forces them to get into a shooting war, which Knights almost always win).

 

Fair enough if you prefer smaller assault units. As I said, you want Paladins though. You don't need Terminators or Strikes for mandatory core, thats why we have Coteaz. It's more an added bonus that we don't need any characters to field scoring Terminators that fill Troops.

[Gentlemanloser]

My purgation squads do a hell of a lot more then my psydreads have ever done, even in 5th.

 

I don't see how that's even remotely possible, but each to thier own I guess! :(

[Slyfox1990]

Once again thanks for the comments. It does rather seem to be coming thick and fast :(

 

As it stands I have made models as listed before and at this stage won't change them. I'm very happy to expand in the future and try different units out but I might just as well get some experience first hand before making any further alterations. I can certainly see the arguement(s) for various options but for me it can be difficult to understand them without trying them.

 

It's worth noting that when I play it is in a very non-competitive environment and 9 times out of 10 against the same player (a friend of mine from when I was in school). Neither of us is experienced, or particularly talented so I can afford to balls things up and learn.