Quest for the Vorpal Swords, and other neglected Chapters

[EgoDraconumNigrorum]

I really like your idea for the Vorpal Swords, the colour scheme you have posted is looking good too! Also good luck with sending your Vorpal Swords fan fluff to Games-Workshop, let us know what they reply with, will be very interesting to know!

 

Anyway, picking up on some things you said earlier:

I generally assume that GW has plans to kill off most Cursed Founding chapters that they don't develop special plans for such as the Minotaurs.

I sure hope not. I am a Black Dragons fan and also a fan of the Cursed Founding, so I would love to see the Cursed Founding expanded upon. I would also love to see the Black Dragons fleshed out a tiny bit more too (but not too much, the mystery and intrigue is something that appeals to me with the Black Dragons).

 

 

The main difficulty I find when trying to use Chapters like these is that there are no rules given for unknown Chapter Masters to use. This means that if you want to field a chapter other than the ones given in the codex that doesn't have a named Master with written rules you are automatically at a disadvantage having no special rule for your army. Lysander is stubborn, Kor'sarro outflanks, Shrike is fleet, etc. The easiest way out of this would be if GW made a list of purchasable special abilities for Chapter Masters to take but so far they haven't done anything like that. Kind of hinders the DIY development of lesser known Chapters and makes them much less desirable.

I agree, there should be a selection of special rules to choose from for Chapter Masters. I myself am in the process of creating a Chapter Master for the Black Dragons; Commander Callozarr. Equipped with jump pack and lightning claws.

 

- EgoDraconumNigrorum

Thanks. I want to get rid of the azure or turqoise pauldrons I think though and stick with something a bit more sober, but the helmet lenses will definitely be that color.

 

My reasons for saying that about the Cursed Founding are only from the bits that they have already written about it, and what they have done with the few chapters mentioned. I personally don't look to get rid of those chapters but I do find it logical that they would be expunged. If you are hoping to see more about it I think that's pretty cool. Your chosen chapter sounds interesting and of course that's a strong and iconic name. I always like assault based tactics, though it seems you did choose a setup exactly like Shrike. Please give some more detail on what you're planning with them if it's convenient. That is what this topic is all about.

I would stick with the turqiose pauldrons, makes them stand out and a bit different to all the other Chapters.

 

The Cursed Founding is such a significant event and Founding that Im sure Games-Workshop wouldnt kill off the Chapters. Its said that it is the second largest Founding of Space Marines, so Im sure the lack of mentioned Chapters within the Founding is left open for people to make DIY Cursed Founding Chapters. The current fluff for the Cursed Founding Chapters seems to be a bit contradictory at the minute - it is mentioned that because of the genetic flaws and mutations and/or ill fortunes of the Cursed Founding Chapters, that new recruits are hard to come by and the numbers of these Chapters are dwindling. However, the Minotaurs Chapter is said to be at full strength and also the Black Dragons Chapter are mentioned to being a full 10 Company's strong too.

 

As for my choice of Chapter, indeed, the Black Dragons are a Chapter of Legend, and I have been hooked on their background info (what little there is of it anyway).

The Black Dragons are strongly suggested to be an assault geared Chapter (largely due to the Dragon Claws squads) and, like you, I am a fan of assault armies, so my plans for the Chapter Master is to lead a squad of Dragon Claws headfirst into assaults - thats why Ive gone for lightning claws and jet pack setup. It wasnt meant to be a replica or 'counts as' version of shrike.

I am still un sure whether or not to run with the Blood Angels Codex and have all assault squads and Dragon Claws squads (using the Death Company rules) OR to stick with the basic Space Marine Codex and use a mix of tactical squads with assault/flame based weaponry and Dragon Claws squads (using Vangard Vets rules).

Getting back to my DIY Chapter Master, Commander Callozarr, I plan to add a little bit of background info for him at some time. Again, Its all very WIP and Ive not given it much thought yet, but he is going to have a bionic jaw and neck due to an extensive battle injury.

As far as how i want him to look, he is going to be a very aggressive looking figure and I think Im going to use 80% Chaos parts for him to add to the aggressive look.

 

 

I sure hope not. I am a Black Dragons fan and also a fan of the Cursed Founding, so I would love to see the Cursed Founding expanded upon. I would also love to see the Black Dragons fleshed out a tiny bit more too (but not too much, the mystery and intrigue is something that appeals to me with the Black Dragons

- EgoDraconumNigrorum

 

saw this blerb about a new Black Dragon battles book on Warseer. its for 2013. Posted by Soul Hunter.

 

Space Marines Battles: The Death of Antagonis by David Annandale.

 

The Black Dragons fall upon the world of Antagonis, summoned to combat the plague of undeath that has engulfed the planet. Allying themselves with Inquisitor Werner Lettinger and a force of Sisters of Battle, the Black Dragons endeavour to save the souls of the Imperial citizens who have succumbed to the contagion. But there is more than a mere infection at play – the dread forces of Chaos lie behind the outbreak, and the Black Dragons stand in the way of the Dark Gods’ victory.

Sweeeet!!! I very much like the sound of this news!

Hmm... Should be very interesting too, because the Inquisition and the Black Dragons really dont get along at all, so hopefully there should be a few twists and plots. I cant wait for this to be released!

 

- EgoDraconumNigrorum

[Rezial]

I like the sound of your Master Callozarr. Neat idea for his battle injury. As for which Codex to use I would use C: SM for a chapter like yours but only because it's the only logical choice for the written stories. If you just want to win games go with Blood Angels. Their codex was written to be more powerful and it's pretty obvious.

 

I have to say that in general I disagree with you about the Cursed Founding. All information written by GW(on all topics) conflicts off and on, but it's clear they wrote about this to create the ability for them to hunt down and eradicate certain chapters citing genetic impurities or even flagrant mutation. They can't afford to do this to the main chapters because they would piss off loyal fans of their primary model line, but they want that element in the storyline to use as they please. It's dramatic and interesting and I get it. From what information is available I see no reason that they would do this to the Black Dragon chapter but that would only make them one of the very few exceptions to the basic idea. I do believe that GW will not choose to kill all chapters from that founding because it would be less believable really.

 

The Minotaurs are a very special case and have been expanded on in a great way. If you read on them they are simply awesome. A chapter answering to the High Lords and practically bred to fight other Astartes. Their army special rule is Preferred Enemy: Space Marine, how much clearer can that be? They are also hinted at to perhaps not be the 'original' Minotaurs as there have been various differences reported about them over spans of time when they weren't seen. My opinion is they are part of an idea to create an insurance policy and perhaps some juicy conflict material for the High Lords later on. You can read about them in the Badab War Imperial Armour books.

[Rezial]

So I went back and took a hard look at the paint scheme for the army and it turns out I'm going to go back on my word and really change it. I had time to look over other chapter's info again and it seemed to me I was trying to get too close to the Astral Claws colors with what I really wanted. I've decided with that in mind to alter it. Originally I was looking at using a lot of silver, gold, and blue tones, which the Astral Claws were covered in. I wanted something that gave the appearance of being honorable and majestic however so I couldn't escape wanting to use blue and gold accents. After that I thought of using a bone white base. It's almost like taking Deathwing colors and mixing them with Ultramarines. I kept the turquoise color to the helmet lenses and power weapons and plasma will be the same, but the main blue is now the old Enchanted Blue. It just seems right for the character I want to give them so here goes.

Basically a Tac Marine. I added the helmet stripe to denote the status of Sergeant. Captains would more than likely have more gold detailing, some capes or loin cloths and Solid color helmets. There are several big reasons I wanted to go this way, not the least of which is that I didn't want any green, red, or black. Using true white with this would have been too much like other chapters. As it is they are still pretty close to Astral Claws and Celestial Lions but it's going to be hard to avoid that without using heraldic schemes and I don't want that either. What do you guys think?

[BobbyDaBlue]

I like the new paint job. When I think of the name Vorpal Swords its brings to mind honor, nobility, protecters and knights of old. When I see the colors you picked its brings to mind the same thing, plus the colors seem make them seem like "warm" noble guardians (dont know if that was what your going for but thats what I see). Plus when painted and shaded properly Lighter colored models look so much better then dark ones.

[Rezial]

That's the idea. I'm going to do my very best to keep them from looking too much like another chapters colors by also varying some of the company colors using the codex.

 

On another note while at GamesDay I talked with Alan Bligh who was very nice and helpful. I specifically asked him about this type of project and he had some great things to say including tips on making the chapter stand out from others and to not forget to include interesting weak points. He said that the Vorpal Swords was a chapter created by Jervis Johnson but only lightly touched on by him. The topic led into the Ultramarines and he mentioned how Ultramar was a huge liability for the chapter being that they must constantly remain there in force to defend it. Part of my idea for the Vorpal Swords includes their desire to create a realm similar to Ultramar because they look on it with great esteem and the challenges they face in beginning this will be part of the issues and weaknesses of the chapter. I found a lot of inspiration reading Jabberwocky again and it seems fitting that this chapter would play the role of the youth coming of age seeking praise and respect from his mentor.

[EgoDraconumNigrorum]

I like the sound of your Master Callozarr. Neat idea for his battle injury.

Cheers. At the moment Im planning on using a Chaos terminator head (the one with the mouth/grill piece and small the bony horns - representing his prosthetic jaw and bony crests), a Chaos posessed torso (the one that looks a bit like plated reptile hide), assault marine legs, lightning claws, Sanguinary Guard jump pack with the Chaos possessed wings attached to either side (instead of the feathered wings).

 

 

I have to say that in general I disagree with you about the Cursed Founding. All information written by GW(on all topics) conflicts off and on, but it's clear they wrote about this to create the ability for them to hunt down and eradicate certain chapters citing genetic impurities or even flagrant mutation. They can't afford to do this to the main chapters because they would piss off loyal fans of their primary model line, but they want that element in the storyline to use as they please. It's dramatic and interesting and I get it. From what information is available I see no reason that they would do this to the Black Dragon chapter but that would only make them one of the very few exceptions to the basic idea. I do believe that GW will not choose to kill all chapters from that founding because it would be less believable really.

Admittedly, there are examples of Cursed Founding Chapters near extinction or indeed extinct (Lamenters and Fire Hawks) but I dont think it will go beyond this, as it will upset gamers who play those Chapters.

 

For example, the Flesh Tearers are said to be a doomed Chapter that will be extinct within the next couple thousand years. Do you really think a time will come when Games-Workshop will kill off the Flesh Tearers?? No way, imagine the outrage!!

Same sort of principle.

 

If you read my profile page I state that Im a fan of the Cursed Founding and Cursed Founding Chapters, thats why opinions are so strong about it :)

 

 

The Minotaurs are a very special case and have been expanded on in a great way. If you read on them they are simply awesome. A chapter answering to the High Lords and practically bred to fight other Astartes. Their army special rule is Preferred Enemy: Space Marine, how much clearer can that be? They are also hinted at to perhaps not be the 'original' Minotaurs as there have been various differences reported about them over spans of time when they weren't seen. My opinion is they are part of an idea to create an insurance policy and perhaps some juicy conflict material for the High Lords later on. You can read about them in the Badab War Imperial Armour books.

I know a fair amount about the Minotaurs, they are indeed awesome!

 

Anyway mate, getting back to your Vorpal Swords. I understand why you chose a change in your colour scheme, and its pretty decent. But as you mentioned yourself, it now looks like Celestial Lions.

Why dont you make the scheme gold and silver instead? That would stand out and look pretty decent if done well.

 

- EgoDraconumNigrorum

[Conn Eremon]

Not too recently, I discovered a reference to the Iron Crusaders in the 5th edition Codex: Space Marines. On the galactic map of Space Marine 'things,' there is a dotted line heading towards the Ghoul Stars with the name Iron Crusaders attached, indicating a Fleet-based Chapter and its general course.

 

I have found absolutely no other evidence of their existence outside of that.

 

And the thing is, I've been thinking of an Iron Hands successor Chapter I'd like to do a squad or two of (my slowly building army has absolutely no uniformity) that I had named the 'Iron Crusaders.' So I was wondering what sort of references there out there for that Chapter. Was that one tiny bit all we have on them? Fleet-based Chapter heading rimward in the general direction of the Ghoul Stars? Or is there more? Do they have a color scheme? Lexicanum gave me nothing more than that, just wanted to see if anyone was aware of other references.

[Rezial]

@Draconum

 

Still in reference to killing off marine chapters I see no reason that GW won't kill off the Flesh Tearers if they so choose. They have already removed Squats, who have some pretty die-hard fans and were even represented at GamesDay US in the Armies on Parade table. Flesh Tearers are not popular next to almost any other Blood Angel choice that I have seen across this country so far. Also there are a lot of choices with Blood Angel successors. In general I think that example doesn't hold water. I really think only core chapters are completely safe from removal from the game and even they have often been subject to major storyline changes. The Crimson Fist chapter was purposely depleted to near extinction, though on purpose for dramatic effect, and that is arguably the oldest most central chapter to the Rogue Trader era.

 

Your suggestion for color scheme is really interesting and completely over the top but possibly in a good way. However it concerns me when talking about doing vehicles because that's a LOT of gold. Then too how would I tackle aquilas and certain other reliefs if not painting them gold as well? I don't like the idea of painting those silver or a color. I think that once a test model is finished in an ivory/bleached bone color it will look sufficiently different when standing next to an Astral Claw who is largely a strong silver base. The blue pauldrons would become the only similarity at that point. Also there are no Astral Claws players anywhere near me and Forge World models and armies are not allowed in my league(major crap btw).

 

@Cormac Airt

 

There are several "Iron" named chapters in the background of the game as a whole, including the infamous Iron Warriors. I myself have been interested in the Iron Knights chapter off and on. I have done quite a bit of research on the entire DIY chapter topic including an in person conversation with Alan Bligh of Forge World. This has led me to believe that it is very cool to jump in and build up these chapters according to our imaginations. It's part of what elevates the hobby. While these efforts may never amount to more than a few paragraphs on a site such as this and a custom painted army it's important to feel free to go for it anyway. I don't know of any other information about the Iron Crusaders at present but there may be a little more and if not it's all yours. If you decide to build them up the best advice I receive about it was to never make them too perfect or good at everything. They should have weaknesses and their background should make real sense. The section about this here on B&C is very good and has all the right info.