Grand Master Mordrak

[Zeratul29]

Hello all,

 

I wanted to try Mordrak in a list and was wondering if he was worth taking?

 

Your thoughts?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Short answer;

 

Never, he's our second worst HQ choice (next to Stern the MegaFailure)

 

Long answer;

 

Every other HQ choice we possess (except the obvious failure of Stern) is better. Yes, even Crowe.

 

His Ghost Knights cost real points, as does he, and you could quite easily get a better bang for your buck by taking a normal Terminator blob with Banner+psycannons and do far more with it.

[thade]

That said, painting Ghost Knights can be kind of fun as it lets you get creative artistically. Stern is also fun to paint and a very fluffy choice to take.

 

Crowe is awesome. He's a 25mm model that can hide all by himself, brooding over his evil sword thingy, when - what's this? - a huge unit of doods drives in to take all your base and cause you woes? Out comes the Crowe who charges in solo, takes up a defensive stance, and holds the entire unit by himself with his rerollable 2+/3++ saves. <3 Not every unit has to be Mephiston or Draigo to be cool.

[adamv6]

With 'Look out Sir' don't ghost knights make Mordrak almost unkillable?

 

He takes a wound, you 'Look out Sir' him, the ghost knight dies, he spawns another. Ad infinitum...

 

With most the missions now giving a VP for killing your opponents warlord, his ability to not fall over becomes invaluable.

[thade]

Interesting.

[V Dubbed]

Depending on the types of games you play, a unit doesn't need to be good to be great fun to play. I take Mordrak now and again for a couple reasons:

 

1) F&*%ing Ghost knights!! C'mon! how awesome is it to have an ethereal terminator bouncing around the board!? Besides, depending on how you painted them up, they just look great on the board!

2) The look on your opponents face when you precision deep strike right beside something squishy and erase it from the board with stormbolters really never gets old.

3) Terminator armour now reigns supreme so if you're clever with your DS location and don't get too greedy, you shouldn't have any trouble weathering a round of shooting before someone is fool enough to charge you.

 

I enjoy using Mordrak and his ghostly buddies but as other have said.... there are better choices. I'd say he's worth taking just for the fun, but if you're tight on points and playing some stiff competition, you're points are better used elsewhere.

 

Just my $0.02

[boreas]

I'm not yet 100% to-date with the new wounds system (first game tonight!), but are wounds shuffled around before save? Or is it unsaved wounds that are prevented with LOS? In the latter case, Mordrak can effectively get the wound, fail his save, pass it on a 4+ and still test for a new Termi!!!!

 

Phil

[Gentlemanloser]

Mordrak only 'suffers' an unsaved mound when he loses a wound.

 

Edit: If I wanted a GKGM for THS, I'd almost always take Modrak over a standard GKGM.

[Raus]

That said, painting Ghost Knights can be kind of fun as it lets you get creative artistically. Stern is also fun to paint and a very fluffy choice to take.

 

Crowe is awesome. He's a 25mm model that can hide all by himself, brooding over his evil sword thingy, when - what's this? - a huge unit of doods drives in to take all your base and cause you woes? Out comes the Crowe who charges in solo, takes up a defensive stance, and holds the entire unit by himself with his rerollable 2+/3++ saves. <3 Not every unit has to be Mephiston or Draigo to be cool.

 

Crowe would only be 4++ right? No Nemesis force sword to boost his iron halo :tu:

[thade]

That said, painting Ghost Knights can be kind of fun as it lets you get creative artistically. Stern is also fun to paint and a very fluffy choice to take.

 

Crowe is awesome. He's a 25mm model that can hide all by himself, brooding over his evil sword thingy, when - what's this? - a huge unit of doods drives in to take all your base and cause you woes? Out comes the Crowe who charges in solo, takes up a defensive stance, and holds the entire unit by himself with his rerollable 2+/3++ saves. <3 Not every unit has to be Mephiston or Draigo to be cool.

 

Crowe would only be 4++ right? No Nemesis force sword to boost his iron halo :D

Ooooh good point, good point.

 

ADDENDUM: I am going to paint up a Brotherhood Champion to take with my lists based on his 2+/3++ Challenge me, I dare you stance. I knew Crowe was a champion (hence the confusion) and forgot that the nasty cold sword he doesn't use isn't nearly a NFS. <3

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Crowe is awesome. He's a 25mm model that can hide all by himself, brooding over his evil sword thingy, when - what's this? - a huge unit of doods drives in to take all your base and cause you woes? Out comes the Crowe who charges in solo, takes up a defensive stance, and holds the entire unit by himself with his rerollable 2+/3++ saves. <3 Not every unit has to be Mephiston or Draigo to be cool.

 

No, he's a silly pointsink and until you hit 2k, he's eating a HQ slot you could use for far better candidates (Librarian, TDA Inquisitor, GM). Draigo and Mephiston are expensive beatsticks, and both got functionally worse now that swords are AP3.

 

With 'Look out Sir' don't ghost knights make Mordrak almost unkillable?

 

He takes a wound, you 'Look out Sir' him, the ghost knight dies, he spawns another. Ad infinitum...

 

With most the missions now giving a VP for killing your opponents warlord, his ability to not fall over becomes invaluable.

 

Nope, because it's only on a 4+. He's not an IC (like Crowe, they decided to make him useless). Also, if even one S8 wound gets through to Mordrak, the whole unit turns to vapoure. All 400pts of it.

 

1) F&*%ing Ghost knights!! C'mon! how awesome is it to have an ethereal terminator bouncing around the board!? Besides, depending on how you painted them up, they just look great on the board!

2) The look on your opponents face when you precision deep strike right beside something squishy and erase it from the board with stormbolters really never gets old.

3) Terminator armour now reigns supreme so if you're clever with your DS location and don't get too greedy, you shouldn't have any trouble weathering a round of shooting before someone is fool enough to charge you.

 

1) Not that awesome, when sniping the squad leader through either S8 spam or challenges (remember, Mordrak only has a hammer, so if you can beat his save he can at best kill you back) causes the whole unit to disappear.

2) The list of things six storm bolters kill is quite small. Yeah, you might kill a Marine or two, or a couple of Guardsmen, but anything you are precision striking next to in the backfield is either A: in cover or B: in a vehicle bunker (Rhino, Chimera, Battlewagon, Raider etc). Also, good castling which everyone learned from 4th edition onwards (due to drop pods armies and Deathwing, not to mention Chaos Daemons) makes it hard to land anywhere your opponent doesn't want you do (ie in front of all his guns).

3) Six Terminator models aren't that hard to deal with, they aren't Paladins. Also, if your opponent isn't bringing AP2 against Knights, he's doing it wrong.

 

Crowe would only be 4++ right? No Nemesis force sword to boost his iron halo

 

Yeah its a common mistake, I think GW even said it in the White Dwarf when they released the codex. Still, re-rollable 2+ or 4+ invul is pretty damn durable. Shame about the lack of IC, he'd be a great model for challenges otherwise. Still, Rending on a 4+ is pretty awesome and arguably better than normal nemesis weapons (except hammers).

[Stormshadow]

Mordrak is one of my absolute favorite characters in 40k. :)

 

I don’t get to play him that often though :(

 

I almost always use him together with Draigo but I haven’t played them in 6th yet. The amount of punishment that unit can take when in cover is ridiculous, and when they get in to cc it’s pretty much over for the other guys :devil:. Now in 6th Draigo can take care of any challenges and the potential 12” charge is sweet :). Also, at 2000p you can attach two librarians with warp rift or two inquisitors with psycannons to make the unit super scary.

[adamv6]

Reclusiarch Darius, I thought you could 'Look out Sir' him, he is a character after all. Paladins are characters not ICs, and you can 'Look out Sir' them. With 6th Edition you never let your character be the closest unit anyway, so you don't let him take that MultiMelta / Krak Missile / Lascannon in the face ^_^

[Gentlemanloser]

Nope, because it's only on a 4+. He's not an IC

 

Characters LoS 4+. IC's LoS 2+.

 

:teehee:

[thade]

Totally tangential, but may I recommend a method of distinguishing between Line of Sight (LOS) and Look Out, Sir! (LOS!)? Specifically, one that uses the presence or absence of an exclamation point instead of something based on varying letter casing...since people will recognize LOS and los both as Line of Sight, other variants might make my head hurt. <3 Something to consider.

 

Anyway, where were we?

 

2+/4++ is very good, and Crowe's still going to be very good in Challenges if you can get him into the mobs with other units. 2+/4++ re-rollable will reliably hold down any AP3 melee monster while your Knights smack around the unit proper. Also, because he's so hated upon, if you do win with Crowe and no Purifiers in your list, you look like a bamf and nobody can cry cheese. <3

 

Meanwhile, Mordrak and his boys are field-worthy if only because they look awesome and have an interesting story to them.

 

EDIT: Clarification

[jeffersonian000]

I've been running a Ghostwing for some time now to good effect, and frankly, it scares the crap out of my opponents. Normally I take Mordrak with 4-5 Ghosts and a Librarian with a homer, two full squads of GKT with max psycannon and mixed weapons, supported by a full squad of GKIS with max psycannon and two hammers. In bigger games I like to add in a full squad of GKSS outfitted the same as my GKIS, and a couple of NDKs. Its all about flexibilty, lets me set the pace of the game, keeps my opponent off balance, while maximizing the GK advantages of mobility and strike power. And Mordrak with his Ghost Knights is the key to this agressive army.

 

Now, I still haven't wrapped my head around the new/different tactics available in 6th, so my army comp might change. Yet Mordrak and his Ghostwing will remain the core as the advantages of 6th unfold.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

I like Mordrak. But in 6th I'd only ever run him solo.

 

Free GKT are win.

 

Having 200 Points worth of Temries go *poof* when Mordrak takes an unsaved S8 Precision Shot to the face. Not so win. :)

 

In 5th, it was *much* harder to have him sniped and lose your entire unit.

 

Now you can even block LoS to the rest of the unit, and make sure you can snipe him with a Meltagun without even needing Precision Shots.

 

Bummer.

 

Mordrak goes back on the shelf. :P

[thade]

So many of you guys deal in such resigned absolutes. "This unit is the best one." "This unit is entirely useless." "This unit isn't nearly worth its points." "This unit is sub-optimal."

 

Forget optimal. That's like my entire work day; screw that noise. I'm not taking it home.

 

Mordrak is a cool idea and Ghost Knights can be super fun to paint and look really cool. Look at this gent's Ghost Knights (down the page...worth a scroll as everything looks awesome) and tell me you'd leave them in your case: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...52397&st=25

 

Don't be poisoned by WAAC! If it looks cool, put it out there. You'll win with it sometimes; it won't be every game that a S8 Precision Shot IDs your character of choice. What, are you going to just never bring ICs without Eternal Warrior? Why balk at losing 200 points in one lucky shot? That's like the very definition of Land Raider.

 

For real. :D If you want to field Mordrak, do it. He's awesome and the only people here complaining about him don't seem to field him that much; he's the center piece of Jeffersonian's army and he's been on this GK board since the new codex dropped, and he's still rocking it.

 

Look at those pictures, they are really really cool.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

..WAAC!

 

The Rule of Tool^TM if you will...

[Gentlemanloser]

Or, paint your regular GKGM with a MC NDH nd his 'retinue' of GKT as Mordrak with Ghost Kngihts.

 

Get the look and fluff you want, while not being hampered by utterly :D rules.

 

:P

[Gumo9]

In 5th I loved Mordrak and the boys. Not had chance to field him in 6th yet unfortunately but I certainly intend to.

 

I particularly like that I can deep strike into cover, and take any unfavourable rolls on armour now.

 

Still working through the rule book so not had chance to pick apart the pros and cons of his tactics yet though.

 

G

[Gentlemanloser]

Oh, that's easy. ;)

 

He's changed from;

 

Deep Strike in the open - run into cover

 

To;

 

Deep Strike in Cover - Shoot Storm Bolters

 

But now, he has like a gazzilion more ways of making your 200 (point) GKT disappear in an instant!

 

Now that, that's game changing! ;)

[boreas]

Mordrak goes back on the shelf. ;)

 

No personnal sniping intended, but I'm suprised at the very competitive vibe regarding GK special characters. One thing this codex has, over the old DH codex, is the capacity for fun cinematic armies. Sure, Mordrak can be sniped. He still brings:

 

-A psychotic (or is it neurotic!?) Grey Knight Grand Master.

-A unit of termies that DS automatically, without scattering, on your first turn.

-A unit of Ghostly Grey Knight Terminators.

 

It's tactically different than your run-of-the-mill GKGM. But more than that, it's a cool (heck VERY cool) thing to bring to a WH40k game.

 

Same goes with Crowe. Grey Knights have Brotherhood Champions. The Paragons of Knighthood. Crowe is the Champion of the Purifiers, purest of the Grey Knights. Because of this, the guy feels he, and only he, can keep the foulest of Daemon weapons from falling in the wrong hands. So, in a twisted way, he totes it around on various battlefield. He's accompanied by the Purifiers, cleansing the battlefields with mystical fire. But he's also shunned by his brotherhood who possibly refuse to associate with what they might perceive as a seed of corruption...

 

Somehow, I feel that The Jeske as a one-sided influence here. Extreme utilitarism and ruthless application of what's the most powerfull force that can be applied are all over the place. People, I've got good news: we have one of the most power codexes ever made. We can afford to use "cool" stuff. Use jokaeros. Buy a Contemptor and use it as an Venerable Dread. Use Crowe, but only one unit of Purifiers. Use (gasp!) BC Stern. Convince you friends that they don't NEED tho use those 3 vendettas, 3 Longfangs squads or use Eldrad in very race's lists.

 

I'm currently reading IA: masterclass 2 and one thing hit me. FW armies follow the "rule of cool" with Chaplain dread or Venator. And it makes them that much more interesting... I've also played my first game of 6th ed. and it does feel more cinematic. I for one, plan to make the most of that aspect of the game...

 

/rant

 

EDIT: NINJAED BY THADE!!!

 

Phil

[Gentlemanloser]

Oh by all means, use what you want and what brings you fun!

 

But while fun is ultimately subjective, some units have really bad objective rules.

 

Like Mordrak making 200 points of unit dissapear.

 

I mean, what other unit in the entire game has a drawback like that? (I'm sure there is one! Somewhere! ;))

 

Edit:

 

I tihnk the important message is sure, use anything you want. But we should *really* make folk aware of what they're using. And how units can be just purely detrimental.

 

As I say above. There's no harm in using a standard GKGM and GKT as your Mordrak and Ghost Knights, if that's the imagry you want!

 

Edit: *Especially* if the OP is specifically asking about a units 'usefulness'. ;)

 

It would be remiss of us to just hand wave away his shortcomings/failures just to promote an atmosphere of "use what you want! It's all good!"

 

More Edits!!!

 

I Love Mordraks 'unique' rules, mostly. I think his ghostly free GKT are an amazing idea, and mechanic. Fresh and interesting.

 

Sadly, he's let down by a few of his rules, that *really* limit his 'usefulness'.

 

Which is a massive shame.

 

Exactly like Crowe...

[boreas]

Edit: *Especially* if the OP is specifically asking about a units 'usefulness'. ;)

 

It would be remiss of us to just hand wave away his shortcomings/failures just to promote an atmosphere of "use what you want! It's all good!"

 

Oh, it's important to point out the shortcomings and failure. But too many of those thread start and end with:

 

"Rubbish, move along"

 

Instead of provided ways to actually try and use those minies and/or rules. Those threads should provide the OP with a the very least a minimum of personnal experience or strategic advice. Pictures of models would be cool. Of course, I'm no moderator and that's just my opinion. But the Vive Imperium subforum of a few years ago craved some diversity for our poor DH codex. The "us" of 5 years ago would have loved those new characters and would have dissected any possible use. But now, we're spoiled with extremely powerful "generic" GKs I guess...

 

Phil