How are sisters fairing in 6th?

[RookBartly]

i gennerlly field a crap ton of rhinos. The way I view my rhinos is they will not survive past the 3rd round. But with rhinos, its cool, I don't dump alot of points into them. They are EXTREAMLY cheap. I just wish I could buy a rhino NOT as a dedicated transport so I can have my repentia start in the dang thing. I never field repentia in squads under 8 or 9 strong with Jacobus attached so an Immy is just too small. I'm a fan of the Rhino rush tactic. I generally spend turn one moving flat out with the rhinos.

 

For the last several months, my Sisters army has not lost to a Choas Army (knock on wood) but I found that I am unable to handle Ork armies at all. I seem to loose every time to them. So I would say my sisters army is doing good. I'm about 50/50 vs everyone else except Nid's. And the only reason I'm not on nids is because I have yet to play vs them with the new WD dex. We don't have many at my store and by the time I get there after work the only Nid player is already in a game.

[*Furyou Miko]

Rook, buy a Rhino for your Retributors or a back-field objective sitting unit, then put the Repentia in that.

 

How on earth are you losing to Orks? Are you forgetting to swap your meltaguns out for flamers? Or are you just not taking enough bolters?

[Hymirl]

I am wondering the same thing here. How is the rhinos working for everyone? I know immolators are going to be trashed fast, as the domminions typically ran in them are a suicide squad.

 

I traditionally used them as distraction units anyway, but used as an outflank harassment unit it's still good it can turn up sneak attack something still. Outflank units frequently end up having a short life simply because people can't let things run about their backfield causing a ruckus!

 

I'm thinking of having multimelta on the immolator and flamers on the girls.. Although I'm mostly making that decision based on available models!

[*Furyou Miko]

I usually run my Dominions as squads of 10 in a Repressor, they're surprisingly survivable considering that Repressors don't get the Shield yet. Well, they get my girls where they need to be (IE: 12" on from either flank!), and since I usually run a squad of Flamers and a squad of Meltas, if there's nobody in immediate range they just fire their bolters out the windows. ^^;

[Sume]

I think I finally designed a list I will be happy with. It currently has 3 rhinos, and 3 immolators. I was wondering as I have not had a chance to play yet. Been painting some. Should have some pictures soon. Just things been busy around my place. I figured as I got the tanks I am going to use them. So it sounds like a mecha force is still good to use. I know the topic has stirred towards use of forge world and it's usage in games.

[Full_ork]

So overall sisters hold their own now and are worth getting into?

 

It seems like it's a midrange army, is that the case?

[Jacinda]

So overall sisters hold their own now and are worth getting into?

Yes, they can hold their own. Very much so.

 

It seems like it's a midrange army, is that the case?

Not the way I play them :D

Actually, most of the battle will be at midrange but it takse close range and suicide units to keep it the battle there and long ranged target prioritization to punish those that break through. What I wind up with is short, mid and long ranged all pounding the board between mid table and my opponent's deployment zone. In theory, at least. For some reason no one wants to stay where I want them. :)

[*Furyou Miko]

Short to mid range at best. Our best weapons are all most effective at the point-blank to 6" ranges, with only heavy weapons going much beyond that. Sure, bolters can lay down quite a bit of fire up to 12" away, but further than that and you're basically taking pot-shots.

 

Template weapons are happiest when the enemy is between 6" and 8" away, and Meltaguns are at their best against vehicles within 6" (or heavy infantry up to 12" I guess). That's why you have to play pretty aggressively to win, and the trickiest part is working out how to get into flamer range before the enemy can assault you. That's one of the places rhinos excel - if they have to assault your rhino, then they're all standing in nice flamer-friendly formation when you step out of the wreckage.

[Full_ork]

Short to mid range at best. Our best weapons are all most effective at the point-blank to 6" ranges, with only heavy weapons going much beyond that. Sure, bolters can lay down quite a bit of fire up to 12" away, but further than that and you're basically taking pot-shots.

 

So if that's the case, and rhinos are your biggest way to get there, how do you guys get around how feeble Rhinos are this edition? I know the not being able to assualt doesn't hurt you guys like it does my templars, but I've found that rhinos pop way to easily this edition. Do you guys charge foward firing support units and hope you get close enough?

[*Furyou Miko]

There's three ways of doing it.

 

1: Ignore the problem and wait for the enemy to close, firing support weapons and bolters from cover. This works passably well against horde armies that lack deep strike capability.

 

2: Advance under supporting fire using distractions. Our Rhinos are tougher than anyone else's (6++ save), although that's not 100% reliable. There's also the fact that we can field larger squads than anyone else. You can use Repentia and Penitent Engines as devastating distractions, or just try to swarm the field with Battle Sisters.

 

3: Cheat. Dominions and Seraphim are two of the best units in our army, the main problem being that they compete for space in the Fast Attack slot. Dominions Outflank, bringing our awesome short-range firepower in close from when they first appear, while Seraphim can deep strike in or just use Jump Packs to advance quickly and strike hard. My favourite setup is two 10-strong Dominion squads in Repressors (1 with quint-melta, 1 with quint-flamer) and then if I have the points, 10 Seraphim with 2 hand flamers. A little luck in the Outflank rolls (and it's a 2/3 chance of getting the result you want) and when the Domis come on, you can wipe out an entire enemy unit then just roll up their line. OF course, against a termie-based army, swap for more meltas, and against orks, swap for more flamers. ^^

[Hymirl]

I find that swapping weapons after you find out what your opponent has brought is a bit of a cheap trick, yes it might help you win but unless your opponent is also rewriting his list to fight you it's blatently unfair and poor sportsmanship.

 

Plus it makes you lazy, if you went to a tournament you wouldn't have that luxury and it would be too late to think up tactics that work against all comers.

 

That's why I prefer two seraphim squads, they're very flexible which I find useful.

 

Does anyone like Celestians? I quite like the idea of having a lightly better than average unit I can throw into the fights without being worried about losing a scoring unit, plus I'm thinking they will make a great bodyguard for Uriah jacobus.

[Jacinda]

how do you guys get around how feeble Rhinos are this edition?

 

(( TL;DR version: you don't; you just understand they are very temporary shelter and use them accordingly))

 

There are plenty of people who will tell you differently, but since the question was how I use my rhinos...

 

My typical list is:

Saint Celestine

Jacobus, 6 DCA with mace and sword, 3 Crusaders with axes - sometimes in a rhino, sometimes not.

2 X BSS with melta(2) in a rhino.

Seraphim with dual hand flamers (2). Eviscerator on superior if points allow

2 X Dominion with melta(2) combi-melta in a Multimelta Immy.

2 X Exorcists

Retributors(6) with heavy bolters(4) and a simulacrum.

Extras as points allow: defense line with quad-gun, repentia, battle sisters with flamers in a rhino, celtians with flamers in an Immolator among others.

 

Saint Celestine and Seraphim go front and center. Saint C in front. Dominions will be either across from heavy armor targets or ONE will be in reserve for outflank. If I have 1st turn I souct the Dominions as close to their targts as possible. land Raiders are perfect since it usually means terminators on foot once it is melta-ed. The Battle Conclave runs along just behind the Seraphim. My troops stay well hidden and way in the back. They are not deployed near any objective and will hide behind buildings if at all possible. Before 6th, the vast majority of the games I played, my battle sisters never gort out of the rhinos and at least half the time never fired a single shot or even moved.

 

While the Dominions are thrown in front and will be sacrificial units, they are also needed to hit the high value targets. Exorcists go after light transport the first turn and IC/MC/terminators after that. I want to remove my opponent’s mobility as much as I can straight away. If it all works correctly, the Battle Conclave will be in action no later than turn 3. I do not care if I make the assault or get assaulted as long as they get into CC with the foot sloggers as quickly as possible. Repentia do well just behind the conclave since they are not considered the most immediate threat that way and can counter assault or slide off onto walkers, or mid-field vehicles for some easy kills.

 

In my deployment zone, the Battle Sisters will wait doing nothing most games, and I'm fine with that. Their meltas are for shunting Dreadknights, Deepstriking terminators and other things that try to get at my Exorcists. The Retributors go after flyers first, and soft targets next or help the Battle Sisters against encroaching enemies if need be.

 

On turn 3 I pick my objectives -- something already cleared or easily held -- and on turn 4 I move the troops out for a turn 5 disembark to capture the objective.

 

To answer your question about how you survive with rhinos ... they don't. Immolators, the conclave's rhino, the repentia's borrowed rhino ... all that goes away before turn 3. That's OK because they only exist to get those units into place in the first two turns anyway. If you want a rhino to survive (and I do with my battle sisters) the only way to keep them up is to keep them hidden.

 

Are there holes in this plan? Plenty. I am not a nationally ranked player (if there is such a thing) and I like to play for a draw (which also means I do not win tourneys) but so far there are very few armies I can not table if they piss me off in a game so only having 2 scoring units is not a problem to me.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[*Furyou Miko]

I find that swapping weapons after you find out what your opponent has brought is a bit of a cheap trick, yes it might help you win but unless your opponent is also rewriting his list to fight you it's blatently unfair and poor sportsmanship.

 

Plus it makes you lazy, if you went to a tournament you wouldn't have that luxury and it would be too late to think up tactics that work against all comers.

 

It's the norm in my area. Unless it's one of the vets, starting a game can take forever because everyone tailors their lists to their opponents.

 

The vets (veterans, not vetinarians, lol) are only faster because they already have a slew of lists prepared. Saying that it makes me 'lazy' really isn't fair because there are a lot of armies that require a balanced army build and careful tactics - and facing a list that's been tailored against you has its own challenges to face. I don't consider myself lazy, most of my games are very hard won. It's just a different culture, I guess?

 

Besides, how is it 'unsportsmanlike' to prepare for your opponent? Surely that's just good strategy.

[Full_ork]

Besides, how is it 'unsportsmanlike' to prepare for your opponent? Surely that's just good strategy.

 

 

Only if your rely on it to win and your opponet isn't doing the same. If both of you are doing it it isn't a big deal. It cancels itself out when you tailor your list to face someone and they do the same to you. That's just a different method of playing and is a matter of taste. It's why against people I havn't faced before, I use alternate untraditional lists to win. They tailor against say the boyz horde, and I bring alot of bike nobs and truckboys which throws their plan off. But my playgroup has all agreed not to antieach other anyway, and I have 5 armies so it's tough to know exactly what I'm fielding untill we begin, in which we don't allow lists changes when terrain starts getting placed.

 

 

To answer your question about how you survive with rhinos ... they don't. Immolators, the conclave's rhino, the repentia's borrowed rhino ... all that goes away before turn 3. That's OK because they only exist to get those units into place in the first two turns anyway. If you want a rhino to survive (and I do with my battle sisters) the only way to keep them up is to keep them hidden.

 

So treat them like how I treat my ork transports? Have a specific job for them and don't sweat if they die as long as I get that job done?

[Naminé]

I find that swapping weapons after you find out what your opponent has brought is a bit of a cheap trick, yes it might help you win but unless your opponent is also rewriting his list to fight you it's blatently unfair and poor sportsmanship.

 

Plus it makes you lazy, if you went to a tournament you wouldn't have that luxury and it would be too late to think up tactics that work against all comers.

 

It's the norm in my area. Unless it's one of the vets, starting a game can take forever because everyone tailors their lists to their opponents.

 

The vets (veterans, not vetinarians, lol) are only faster because they already have a slew of lists prepared. Saying that it makes me 'lazy' really isn't fair because there are a lot of armies that require a balanced army build and careful tactics - and facing a list that's been tailored against you has its own challenges to face. I don't consider myself lazy, most of my games are very hard won. It's just a different culture, I guess?

 

Besides, how is it 'unsportsmanlike' to prepare for your opponent? Surely that's just good strategy.

 

Where I play, it is customary to let your opponant know what army you are playing in advance (just not the actual list), which means you can tailor a list to counter what you expect the opponant to bring... And it makes things a hell of a lot of fun ;)

 

Playing against a list that is designed to take you down is a great challenge that results in fun games; especially when you bring or do something unexpected!

I agree with Furyou, it is just good strategy :) (though writing up a list right before the game sounds a bit annoying...)

[*Furyou Miko]

Well, yeah, we don't swap lists then edit, just let them know what army book we're using...

 

and yes, having to wait for the other person to write up an army list, especially when they don't know 100% what they're doing (or, it seems, sometimes what they own) can be very annoying. Which is why I (and most of the other veteran players - I won't say older because some of them just started sooner) tend to have five or six lists with us at any given time.

[Hymirl]

This isn't the place to discuss the benefits of tailoring verus balanced lists. But not everyone plays with that kind of gaming groups, I play mostly at events like tournaments or campaign weekends. If I play against orks it's too late to swap out weapons for flamers, so giving that kind of advice isn't practical for most people.

And to be honest writing a list at the start of the game does seem like a waste of time, and is only going to advantage the player who spends the most money on toy soldiers.

It is however not my intention to cause offense. :lol:

 

Here's a question, allies? I tried IG in my last game and was mostly wishing I had more sisters of battle to be honest. I'm thinking about some GK for the next campaign weekend I'm going to, I need to ally something as some of the games are 2000 points and I don't have enough sisters of battle!

A squad of GK terminators and a stormraven could be pretty handy for filling in gaps in combat and anti-air...

[*Furyou Miko]

I always used to run Inquisitorial Stormtroopers to pad out my Sisters, and found that when I swapped over to pure Sisters I started doing a lot better.

[Kabbala]

An ally add-on I've been testing and tweaking is a GK Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor with a few servo skulls, Warrior acolyte henchmen in a Chimera, and a squad of Terminators for a deep striking threat. I'm having some success and find the servo skulls really mess with my opponents scouting/infiltrating unit placement.

[Hymirl]

The servo skulls do seem useful. The brother captain gets them too as well as piles of grenades to throw around which makes the termies much tougher... Although admittedly much more expensive.

 

What sort of warrior henchmen do you use? Access to plasma guns I find tempting but they're hardly very accurate, the classics of bolters, meltas and flamers are effective but tend to be in abundance everywhere else. I do like the fluff of having a chimera and inquisitor about. It was such a shame the chimera didn't make the cut as a battle on clave transport... But I guess we're here to take about what we do have; not to grumble for what we don't have (we're not eldar players after all! :ph34r: )

[Kabbala]

I usually run my Henchman with 8x Hot-shot lasguns and 3x Plasma Guns in their handy Chimera. At the right range, that's a lot of AP 3/2 shots. I don't usually upgrade the Terminator squad, it's used as a back field distraction more than anything to draw some heat off the girls.

[MomentoMori]

Are we having much luck against flyer lists?

[RookBartly]

Are we having much luck against flyer lists?

 

I was playing against an ork player running 3 flyers. Turn 3 all three came on. My Ageis Defence Line intercepted one and glanced it, my turn three I fired one exorcist at another one (no line of site on the glanced one) and got 6 shots, 3 hit, and scored 2 pen's and one glance. Both pens were Boom! And he jinked one, turn 4 I took out his other two. I don't fear flyers anymore and now we have a flyer we can call upon I'm happy

[RookBartly]

Rook, buy a Rhino for your Retributors or a back-field objective sitting unit, then put the Repentia in that.

 

How on earth are you losing to Orks? Are you forgetting to swap your meltaguns out for flamers? Or are you just not taking enough bolters?

 

 

I have no idea how I am loosing to orks. The main ork player I go against don't play standard ork lists and I generally don't play an anti ork list vs him. I usually bring an All-comers list. I beat him every time he isn't playing his orks. I did table a 2k Ork/Necron list the other day in 2 1/2 turns.

[*Furyou Miko]

Oo magic orks. What kind of stuff does he throw out there?