Re-Roll

[Zedrenael]

So I was playing in a recent game against a Daemons/Chaos player and ran into a little snag.

 

So Fateweaver says that you can reroll all unsuccessful saves, and Divination power malediction says to reroll all successful saves. Since these countradict each other do they cancel each other out? Do you just roll once and take that result? Or do you roll and then reroll all the dice anyways?

 

Second situation is outflanking and forcing my opponent to reroll. They can reroll if they do not like there result. I can force him to reroll if I do not like the results. So since we applied the reroll against reroll to the before mentioned rule he said that they cancel each other out also. Is this true? Or can I force the reroll regardless?

[Morollan]

So Fateweaver says that you can reroll all unsuccessful saves, and Divination power malediction says to reroll all successful saves. Since these countradict each other do they cancel each other out? Do you just roll once and take that result? Or do you roll and then reroll all the dice anyways?

 

I'd say they cancel out and just stick with what the dice say on the first roll.

 

The 5e rulebook FAQ covered this, although it is now out of date of course:

 

Q: If a unit has a special rule that lets it re-roll failed saves and is being affected by an enemy special rule that makes them re-roll successful saves how is this

resolved? (p25)

A: Whilst you should technically roll all the dice and then re-roll them, just roll the saves once and apply the results to save time.

[pingo]

So Fateweaver says that you can reroll all unsuccessful saves, and Divination power malediction says to reroll all successful saves. Since these countradict each other do they cancel each other out? Do you just roll once and take that result? Or do you roll and then reroll all the dice anyways?

 

I'd say they cancel out and just stick with what the dice say on the first roll.

This isn't a RAW argument to support this but I would agree as both these rules in combination serve to make the re-rolling statistically pointless.

 

There is absolutely no point in rerolling all saves regardless of whether they are successful or not.

[Zedrenael]

What about the second instant when you reroll based on finding out what you have after the roll?

[Rik Lightstar]

RAW as written you should indeed re-roll ALL the dice, and that's all,

 

as they've been re-rolled once it can't be done again (no re-rolls of re-rolls),

 

You can almost guarantee the two results will be different.

 

Rik

[ShinyRhino]

Just wave your empty hand over the table and say "There's my first roll, now here's my second." Then actually roll the dice. :(

[Seahawk]

It doesn't actually save time (1, 2 seconds tops), so for thoroughness' sake (and because that's the RAW), just roll them all, pick 'em up and roll them again.

[Jacinda]

The first is easy. Two rules affect the dice at the same time but they actually are applied to different dice. While there is no overlap, they statistically cancel each other out. You could pick them all up and reroll, but why? Just be sure to agree on how you are going to play it BEFORE making the first dice roll.

 

The second is not the same. Two rules that both work on the single die rolled. They don't actually cancel each other, but the first one used will prevent the second one from being used since you are only ever allowed a single re-roll. So it works like this:

Roll for Outflank.

If you or your opponent wants to force a re-roll then do so now.

End. What ever you have is the final result. Only one re-roll is allowed.

[pingo]

It doesn't actually save time (1, 2 seconds tops), so for thoroughness' sake (and because that's the RAW), just roll them all, pick 'em up and roll them again.

RAW, yes, but I maintain it is completely pointless :teehee:

[thade]

As others have said here, in the absence of a clear ruling or FAQ on the matter, the simplest and safest assumption is to handle it as we did in fifth. It both makes sense, saves time, and is within the rules (i.e. not re-rolling a die more than once).

[DarkGuard]

The second is not the same. Two rules that both work on the single die rolled. They don't actually cancel each other, but the first one used will prevent the second one from being used since you are only ever allowed a single re-roll. So it works like this:

Roll for Outflank.

If you or your opponent wants to force a re-roll then do so now.

End. What ever you have is the final result. Only one re-roll is allowed.

 

I'd assume that the player whose turn it is will get to force the first re-roll, thereby cancelling out the other ability?

 

And with the first, I'd do what the others say, just make one roll, saves some time on rolling twice, and it's quite pointless to sit there continually rolling the same set of dice.

[Zedrenael]

New Scenario

 

Unit coming in from reserve outflanking. Player rolls a 2 and they like the result. Well I do not, I want him to re-roll that. He also has an ability to re-roll his outflanking result. Well he likes his result already. Can he sacrifice his re-roll to cancel out my re-roll?

[ShinyRhino]

New Scenario

 

Unit coming in from reserve outflanking. Player rolls a 2 and they like the result. Well I do not, I want him to re-roll that. He also has an ability to re-roll his outflanking result. Well he likes his result already. Can he sacrifice his re-roll to cancel out my re-roll?

 

I'd say no, you have to reroll.

His reroll is typically worded as "opponent must reroll", leaving no options. Yours typically says "may reroll", which is an option to reroll or not. It won't matter in which order you apply them.

 

Scenario One:

You roll your die and get a result. You decide not to reroll this result using your ability. The opponent then uses his ability to force the reroll.

 

Scenario Two:

You roll and get a result. You decide to reroll this result using your ability. The opponent cannot force a reroll of a reroll.

[pingo]

... no single dice can be re-rolled more than once ...

I'd say that if your opponent re-rolls a dice, you can't then make him roll it once again. Similarly, if you force him to re-roll a dice he can't re-roll it back.

 

I'd also imagine that if both players are entitled to a re-roll of a dice, the player who's turn it is gets to decide the order of operations.

[thade]

I'd also imagine that if both players are entitled to a re-roll of a dice, the player who's turn it is gets to decide the order of operations.

This seems a safe assumption to me; it fits the model and what seems to be the spirit of the new rules.