Salamanders and Tau

[ShasVa]

I have the rulebook, so I know that Space Marines and Tau are "Battle Brothers" (and here I thought the Astartes were xenophobes LOL). I'm tossing up between armies at the moment, as I don' know who to stick with. Recently something dawned on me that could change that.

 

I like the Salamanders for their personality (as humanitarian as they can be in the grimdark galaxy) and their rules (especially Vulkan He'Stan). They speciality appears to be close-range fighting, be it shooting with their heat weapons or smashing things with their hammers. With the new Allies Matrix in 6th Edition, I was thinking that the Tau could possibly be allies that would complement the Salamanders.

 

So if the 18th Legion has close-range speciality, the Tau could back them up with their own long-range speciality. This means Firewarriors, a few Battlesuits, and even a Hammerhead for its S10 AP1 goodness (shame the allied detachment allows only one).

 

Can I get confirmation on this possibility too, please? I am curious as to the potential of the Salamanders and the Tau working together in-game.

[Grey Mage]

Yes, you arent dreaming, the allies chart is exactly what it says it is.

[ShasVa]

So what sort of tactics could the two use together in a game? Some ideas would be nice.

 

Close-range fire for the Sallies with long-range fire from the Tau is an obvious option (in my opinion). But I'm almost certain that there are more strategies to be had.

[Grey Mage]

Tactics are beyond what the Rules forum is about- so Im kicking this to tactica.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So what sort of tactics could the two use together in a game? Some ideas would be nice.

 

Close-range fire for the Sallies with long-range fire from the Tau is an obvious option (in my opinion). But I'm almost certain that there are more strategies to be had.

 

 

Depending upon the wording of the Tau codex and FAQ, Pathfinders might be able use markerlights to get rid of cover saves for your meltas to burn through.

[ShasVa]

Things I have worked out so far are listed below. Any further potential tactics would be appreciated.

 

- It appears Markerlights still work in the way described above. If enough are used, Cover saves can be negated entirely and Ld lowered to 0 so Pinning is automatically failed. Very nice!

 

- XV25s now benefit from both Stealth and Shrouded rules, and can Infiltrate, which opens up some very interesting possibilities.

 

- Gun Drones detatched from Tau vehicles can apparently contest objectives, which could allow the Salamanders time to mop up enemy stragglers daring to take said objectives.

 

- Vulkan He'Stan, joined by a Librarian with Null Zone and a squad of TH/SS Assault Termies could prove quite devastating. Enemy ++ saves would have forced re-rolls, allowing the THs to smash them into oblivion.

 

Got a quick qestion about Devastators for this chapter. I'm aware that Missile Launchers are a highly recommended weapon to take for them, so should I use MLs over Multi-Meltas, even though the latter gains benefit from Vulkan He'Stan? Or would a combination of both bet better, say 2 MMs and 2 MLs? I mean, surely the Tau allies can't be totally depended on for long-range firepower!

[sdavid86]

Markerlights specifically only work for Tau units, so markerlights units are a bit of a waste if you're taking Tau as allies.

 

Want to do some fun things with Tau allies? Here's a few notions:

 

Tau Commanders can get Hit and Run and Night Vision from wargear, granting that their squad.

Take a pair of broadsides. No real trick here, they just smash things to pieces from 72" away. 1 Hammerhead really isn't that good at affecting vehicles and costs the same as 2 broadsides.

TL missile pod battlesuits are probably the most mobile vs affordable way to get TL Str 7 shots at Flyers.

 

Depending on your play style I would recommend multi-meltas in your Tact squads and missiles on your Devastators. Generally a poor idea to mix 2 very different ranges on a squad that's going to hang back most of the game. I dislike dropping around 200 points into a Tact squad then hanging back to only use the lascannon or missile launcher. Multi-melta is damn dangerous at close range and you can always snap-fire it as you move up.

[Lysere]

Markerlights specifically only work for Tau units, so markerlights units are a bit of a waste if you're taking Tau as allies.

 

Want to do some fun things with Tau allies? Here's a few notions:

 

Tau Commanders can get Hit and Run and Night Vision from wargear, granting that their squad.

Take a pair of broadsides. No real trick here, they just smash things to pieces from 72" away. 1 Hammerhead really isn't that good at affecting vehicles and costs the same as 2 broadsides.

TL missile pod battlesuits are probably the most mobile vs affordable way to get TL Str 7 shots at Flyers.

 

Depending on your play style I would recommend multi-meltas in your Tact squads and missiles on your Devastators. Generally a poor idea to mix 2 very different ranges on a squad that's going to hang back most of the game. I dislike dropping around 200 points into a Tact squad then hanging back to only use the lascannon or missile launcher. Multi-melta is damn dangerous at close range and you can always snap-fire it as you move up.

 

As a former Tau player let me correct a statement here first, then throw out some advice.

 

The wargear that grants hit and run leaves the suit without a squad so this does not work.

 

The broadsides are very good but 90% of the downsides of the Hammerhead are now gone and it gained some buffs as well. So it's really a matter of mobility and versatility. (Broadsides don't get the sub-munition)

Missile pods still rock as do all the weapons available to suits. Take what you lack if you run them.

 

If you do run Tau take only the weapons that will compliment your Salamanders. Plasma and missile HQ squads can lay down some serious Firepower. Especially since the Commander is a character. Also don't hesitate to take some of the extra wargear options like Stimulants for your leader since he will almost always have it.

 

If you really want some good ideas about running Tau PM me and I'll point you to the right place. (Or could just answer your questions myself if possible)

[DarkGuard]

Depending on your play style I would recommend multi-meltas in your Tact squads and missiles on your Devastators. Generally a poor idea to mix 2 very different ranges on a squad that's going to hang back most of the game. I dislike dropping around 200 points into a Tact squad then hanging back to only use the lascannon or missile launcher. Multi-melta is damn dangerous at close range and you can always snap-fire it as you move up.

 

This is the best answer to the MM Dev query.

 

To OP, one of the problems with Vulkan lists is they're lack of range. Of course, you're bringing Tau into the equation, but that doesn't mean you should then take sub-standard choices in your own army. Take MMs in the Tactical squads, take a Fire Warrior squad to sit on objectives in your deployment zone. Take the ML Dev squad, and supplement them with harder hitting Broadsides/Hammerhead with railguns. And then take some Battlesuits (including Commander) with missile pods and plasma for more range, mobility, and for AP2. I think it'll all fit together nicely.

[MagicMan]

This topic makes me feel slightly ill.

 

 

 

That said, broadsides are always annoying to play against, and would give an up and personal Salamander army some long range Anti-Tank punch.

[Mezkh]

This topic makes me feel slightly ill.

 

I realise it's a throwaway comment and I'm one poster but can stuff like this be left at the door? Allies are part and parcel of 6th ed and discussion of them is allowed in this tactica forum. Would be good to have some topics like this where we can talk about the competitive options for list building that use them without getting sidetracked by the 'ew xenos' or 'allies suck' crowd.

 

I do have access to the Tau Codex and the Vectored Thruster HQ solo suit joining an allied Space Marine unit and granting hit and run is legal.

 

Since the Sallies get a bonus to TH/SS Termies, could be very useful to give them the ability to Hit and Run out of combat? Would mean you can't Landraider them in, but you could Deepstrike them no problem, with better odds to come in Turn two.

 

Fire Warriors to hold the fort while the short ranged Multimelta Tacticals go forward seems solid.

Twin-linked Missile Pod Crisis wouldn't be one of the worst options for having a crack at fliers either.

[Lysere]

This topic makes me feel slightly ill.

 

I realise it's a throwaway comment and I'm one poster but can stuff like this be left at the door? Allies are part and parcel of 6th ed and discussion of them is allowed in this tactica forum. Would be good to have some topics like this where we can talk about the competitive options for list building that use them without getting sidetracked by the 'ew xenos' or 'allies suck' crowd.

 

I do have access to the Tau Codex and the Vectored Thruster HQ solo suit joining an allied Space Marine unit and granting hit and run is legal.

 

Since the Sallies get a bonus to TH/SS Termies, could be very useful to give them the ability to Hit and Run out of combat? Would mean you can't Landraider them in, but you could Deepstrike them no problem, with better odds to come in Turn two.

 

Fire Warriors to hold the fort while the short ranged Multimelta Tacticals go forward seems solid.

Twin-linked Missile Pod Crisis wouldn't be one of the worst options for having a crack at fliers either.

 

Sorry I was referring to the fact that he himself can take no drones, and no bodyguard. And as a Tau unit with a jetpack they work best in such formations. (Their mobility is what makes them good) Typically such a suit would be further given Iridium armor and FNP and used as a very short range counter attack unit. Shooting then assaulting units that can't beat it, before breaking off and repeating this process elsewhere.

 

While he would still fire his weapons at full range while moving with normal infantry, you are also wasting the suit by not using its main strength which has always been its mobility, not its Firepower. Also since only the commander is an IC you will need to use him for it, if you do decide to go such a route I would suggest missile and plasma, as it balances out the weapons your squad will probably have. Also if you take the better HQ he is both more survivable as well as a decent Ld buff to the squad.

 

Either way you'd be sinking close to 100pts easy into a suit for hit and run for a single squad, and since you can't take any drones with the suit, (and personal shield generators aren't cheap and also use a hardpoint) he himself will be limited in how tough he is. From a marine perspective I'm not sure about this but from a Tau perspective I see this as nothing more then wasted potential. (Especially given the units you would want hit and run for are faster then you usually) I'd still give it a go if it sounds fun, one of the joys of being Battle Brothers eh? :)

 

[Edit]

Just thought of an interesting suit you could take with the intent of buffing your squads. Basic Commander (Shas 'el) with a Missile Pod, Vectored Retro Thrusters, and an Advanced Stabilization System. Add a hard-wired Black sun Filter in there and have an optional 30pts you could drop in adding a 2+ armor and FNP to make him tougher, then throw him in whatever squad you have that needs the bonus's he can give. Would allow you to boost different squads depending on what kind of list your fighting. Grans hit and run, Night Vision, and can choose to grant Slow and purposeful, and with the 2+ armor and FNP he comes in just barely over 100pts.

[pyroknight]

To be clear, only Tau can use markerlights. They cannot help your marines. (this comes up often)

 

Hit&Run and Slow&Purposeful now both transfer to their squad under 6E rules.

 

The Hit&Run wargear prevents drones and bodyguard, but does not prevent you from joining a squad. Since Tau have no melee weapons available to them, make sure you pick a good squad to support.

 

It may be worth trying to make a 4 Dev Multimelta squad slow and purposeful. Although you couldn’t transport them.

 

Tau commanders usually run about 100 points for the cheaper ones, so you have to consider that.

 

Tau plasma and/or missile pods are generally considered the best weapons for battlesuits.

[ShasVa]

For mobility's sake, I was thinking of having all Land Speeders equipped with Heavy Flamers and Multi-Meltas. Even with Snap Fire I'm not too keen on having the Salamanders so up-close.

 

A squad of 3 Broadsides, each with 2 Shield Drones, somehow seems more durable than a single Hammerhead. I'm not that into the Railgun's sub-munition round anyway (stats for it could be slightly better). I would still take Hammerheads for the Ion Cannon though. Back to the Broadsides, I'm thinking giving them TL-Plasma Rifles would be a decent option too.

 

Any of the Battlesuit-wearing Tau HQs would go well with my Salamanders. The FW model of Shas'O R'Alai has that nifty experimental blast-template weapon, with a few different flavours. Shas'O R'myr has the double-plasma gun and a suped-up shield, and Shadowsun has TL Fusion guns with drones to boot.

[Lysere]

With broadsides your better off doing this if you want them stationary.

 

2x Broadside Shas'ui w/Targeting Array

1x Broadside Shas'ui Team Leader w/ Targeting array, Hard-wired Drone Controller, and 2 Shield Drones.

 

For mobility drop the targeting arrays for Advanced stabilization systems.

 

Don't bother with plasma, you can only fire one weapon unless you take multi-trackers, that and the Smart Missile System completely ignores LoS. So people can't hide behind walls.

[DarkGuard]

For mobility's sake, I was thinking of having all Land Speeders equipped with Heavy Flamers and Multi-Meltas. Even with Snap Fire I'm not too keen on having the Salamanders so up-close.

 

Why? Speeders can fire two weapons normally when moving up to 12", so even at cruising speed you can still fire two multi-meltas. If you want to have them versatile and able to take on anything, then sure, MM/HF Speeder. But if they're prime job is anti-tank, then take dual MMs, as they'll never snap fire when moving 12", and will instead fire both weapons at normal BS, which is also twin-linked.

[pyroknight]

Lysere has the correct broadside setup. Generally 1 pack of shield drones is enough.

 

Plasma on broadsides are only good with multitracker so you can shoot the railgun too. Generally the smart missiles are more useful, unless you know you will be facing deep striking terminators.

 

I agree with Dark Guard; paired weapons on speeders, since you can fire both now.