Fliers leaving first turn

[DV8]

If you go first, then just leave the airspace turn two if you come in, then let him come on from reserve. You can always get the drop on him - and with AV 12, fortifications are really the least of your concerns.

 

Morticon, Flyers cannot leave the table the turn they enter play.

 

Just thought of a necron counter to drop pods... Nememsor Zandrekh. anyhting in reserves can appear when the opponent gets something from reserves. 1 drop pod alone would mean, entire french breakfast on your face first turn:)

 

Nemesor Zandrekh's Phased Reinforcements rule only allows units that can Deep Strike to enter play. This means only Veiled units, Night Scythes, and Doom Scythes.

 

There are a few ways to help you counter Air Cav/Flyers.

 

1. Include some Air Cav/Flyers of your own, either from your own list or as Allies (or both), as well as (if you can) units with Skyfire (I prefer Bastions over Aegis because the quad guns in the latter can be shot out and destroyed).

 

2. Yield first turn to your opponent, allowing your Flyers to (hopefully) enter play after your opponents, giving you an Alpha Strike against them.

 

3. Play the positioning game to keep your own Flyers alive. Remember that unless they enter Hover mode, a Flyer can only make one 90 degree turn and MUST move at least 18", meaning they will find it difficult to draw a bead on your own Flyer. If you stay on his tail (in true dog fighting fashion) you can push him off the table (you follow off, allowing for another Alpha Strike when he re-enters play via Ongoing Reserves) or force him into Hover mode, where (even if you lose your own Flyer), the rest of your army can deal with it in easy fashion.

 

 

DV8

[wabbitrage]

If you go first, then just leave the airspace turn two if you come in, then let him come on from reserve. You can always get the drop on him - and with AV 12, fortifications are really the least of your concerns.

 

Morticon, Flyers cannot leave the table the turn they enter play.

 

 

been discussed. the way i see it the rules nothing stops you using a flat-out move to leave the table.

[Morticon]

If you go first, then just leave the airspace turn two if you come in, then let him come on from reserve. You can always get the drop on him - and with AV 12, fortifications are really the least of your concerns.

 

Morticon, Flyers cannot leave the table the turn they enter play.

 

 

been discussed. the way i see it the rules nothing stops you using a flat-out move to leave the table.

 

Correct! The "resulting move" may not take them off the table, nothing saying the flat-out wont.

[Zedrenael]

It is completely allowed amongst other things in this game.

[DV8]

No it is not. Games Workshop writes its rulebooks with a permissive rules set. It tells you exactly what you CAN do, and anything else is not allowed. Simply saying "the rules don't say I can't" is not sufficient reasoning to say that you can.

 

Page 38, the Jink USR makes a distinction between a move made in the Movement phase, and moving Flat Out/Turboboosting in the Shooting phase.

 

Page 80, Flyers move as "Zooming" in the Movement phase, and it states that this Zoom move cannot be used to take a Flyer off the table on the turn it arrives from Reserves.

 

Page 81, Flyers making a Zoom move can leave the battlefield, deliberately or accidentally. But this does not over rule the previous stipulation of being unable to leave the table the turn it arrives.

 

Note. A Flyer may leave using its Zoom move. Not its Flat Out move.

 

Anything else is wishful thinking. By your logic (the rules don't say I can't so therefore I can), the rules don't also say I can't arbitrarily award myself a million Victory Points at the start of each game either so...

 

 

DV8

[Zedrenael]

No it is not. Games Workshop writes its rulebooks with a permissive rules set. It tells you exactly what you CAN do, and anything else is not allowed. Simply saying "the rules don't say I can't" is not sufficient reasoning to say that you can.

 

Page 38, the Jink USR makes a distinction between a move made in the Movement phase, and moving Flat Out/Turboboosting in the Shooting phase.

 

Page 80, Flyers move as "Zooming" in the Movement phase, and it states that this Zoom move cannot be used to take a Flyer off the table on the turn it arrives from Reserves.

 

Page 81, Flyers making a Zoom move can leave the battlefield, deliberately or accidentally. But this does not over rule the previous stipulation of being unable to leave the table the turn it arrives.

 

Note. A Flyer may leave using its Zoom move. Not its Flat Out move.

 

Anything else is wishful thinking. By your logic (the rules don't say I can't so therefore I can), the rules don't also say I can't arbitrarily award myself a million Victory Points at the start of each game either so...

 

 

DV8

 

All that I read here is you getting very very grumpy.....

 

Cheer up it is just a game. :(

 

Another thing is that it does not say that you can't award yourself those victory points then you can but see how many people will play that game with you. It is all an interpertation of the rules and how others see them. Nothing is written into stone cause I would love to see that rule book. So it doesn't say you can't flat out back off the table then you can flat out back off the table. It doesn't say Executioner Plasma Cannons get hot but it has the comma there to imply it does. It doesn't say that what counts as an unusual trait for power weapons but Dante's Axe is one. I can keep going but the book needs an FAQ and until this happens people are looking for a general consensus not a pissed off argument. :D

 

-Zedrenael

[DV8]

All that I read here is you getting very very grumpy.....

 

Cheer up it is just a game. :D

 

Troll all you want. My mental state (relative indifference, I'm so deep into Fantasy right now 40k barely registers on my radar) has zero bearing whatsoever on the presentation of my argument.

 

 

DV8

[Morticon]

All that I read here is you getting very very grumpy.....

 

Cheer up it is just a game. :)

 

Troll all you want.

 

It wasnt a troll, dude- chill. It was noting how out of place the atmosphere of your post seemed to be in relation to what we're trying to cultivate in the BA forum.

 

 

But let's talk about your argument rather.

(1) Page 38, the Jink USR makes a distinction between a move made in the Movement phase, and moving Flat Out/Turboboosting in the Shooting phase.

 

(2) Page 80, Flyers move as "Zooming" in the Movement phase, and it states that this Zoom move cannot be used to take a Flyer off the table on the turn it arrives from Reserves.

 

(3) Page 81, Flyers making a Zoom move can leave the battlefield, deliberately or accidentally. But this does not over rule the previous stipulation of being unable to leave the table the turn it arrives.

 

(4) Note. A Flyer may leave using its Zoom move. Not its Flat Out move.

 

1. I believe this rule makes the case stronger for what you're arguing against (reasons below).

 

2. Correct for the first sentence, and incorrect for the second (reasons below).

 

3. Logically fallacious base on above/below.

 

4. Contested and disproved- for reasons noted below.

 

 

 

Some Flier rule quotes:

 

"In a turn in which the flier enters the board from reserve.....providing that THE resulting move will not carry it off the board again"

 

Now, this already should end your argument ranging from 1-3.

The rules use the definite article for a single instance of movement.

Not two instances, and definitely not two instances over two phases.

One.

One resulting move.

You, yourself have posted rules regarding movement over two phases (1).

 

 

Now, addressing the 4th argument:

 

To argue this line, you must also argue that a flier making a flat out move is not zooming (making a zoom move).

Further to that, since it is not zooming that it is no longer hard to hit etc.

Can you do this? I don't believe so.

Why do you need to do this?

 

 

Zoom is a movement type. Its a mode of movement. Whether you move Flat Out, at Cruising Speed or at Combat speed you are still zooming.

 

"Zooming" is used grammatically as an adjectival descriptor of the flier that moves in a particular way- described here:

 

"Fliers can usually only make a special kind of move called a zoom"

 

Every instance where the word Zoom is used in the title, the adjectival zooming is used in the body text description.

eg:

 

"Zoom", "Zoom, Tank Shock and Ramming" , "Zoom and Flat Out" etc.

 

Therefore there is no difference between Zooming, a Zoom move and a Zooming flier.

 

They then expand this by telling us that:

 

"A zooming flier that goes flat out.."

 

 

Therefore, you are still zooming (ie: making a zoom move) when you move flat out and

 

Therefore may leave the combat space.

 

 

To argue against what I have stated you will need to prove:

 

1. That you are no longer zooming when you move flat out (and with it deal with all the added issues that come along) and

2. That flat out on a zooming flier is not a zoom move (where "zoom move" is used interchangeably with zooming).

 

My argument simplified is that a zooming flier moving flat out is a zoom move.

The rules moving on prevent us from leaving airspace in the resultant move, but not the subsequent move after that.

 

 

Over to you, sir.

[wabbitrage]

No it is not. Games Workshop writes its rulebooks with a permissive rules set. It tells you exactly what you CAN do, and anything else is not allowed. Simply saying "the rules don't say I can't" is not sufficient reasoning to say that you can.

 

Page 38, the Jink USR makes a distinction between a move made in the Movement phase, and moving Flat Out/Turboboosting in the Shooting phase.

 

Page 80, Flyers move as "Zooming" in the Movement phase, and it states that this Zoom move cannot be used to take a Flyer off the table on the turn it arrives from Reserves.

 

Page 81, Flyers making a Zoom move can leave the battlefield, deliberately or accidentally. But this does not over rule the previous stipulation of being unable to leave the table the turn it arrives.

 

Note. A Flyer may leave using its Zoom move. Not its Flat Out move.

 

Anything else is wishful thinking. By your logic (the rules don't say I can't so therefore I can), the rules don't also say I can't arbitrarily award myself a million Victory Points at the start of each game either so...

 

 

DV8

 

Why quote page numbers and then throw in your own opinion as if it were quoted in the book.

 

" Page 81, Flyers making a Zoom move can leave the battlefield, deliberately or accidentally. But this does not over rule the previous stipulation of being unable to leave the table the turn it arrives. "

 

" Note. A Flyer may leave using its Zoom move. Not its Flat Out move. "

 

I was like damn. didn't realise that. hes right.

 

Then i noticed the bad grammar and realised it was you just making stuff up. If you quote something don't mingle it up with your own interpritations of the rules.

 

If anything you are trolling us. Not mort trolling you.

[dswanick]

If you go first, then just leave the airspace turn two if you come in, then let him come on from reserve. You can always get the drop on him - and with AV 12, fortifications are really the least of your concerns.

 

Allow me to drop my two cents into the mix:

"The distance a vehicle moves influences how accurately it can fire its weapons and how easy a target the vehicle will be if assaulted, as described later.", BRB, Pg.71, Vehicle Movement

"A vehicle can elect to move Flat Out instead of firing in the Shooting phase, immediately moving up to 6"",BRB, Pg.72, Moving Flat Out

So by these two quotes some are arguing that a Movement phase 'Move' is not the same Move as a Shooting phase Flat Out 'Move", correct?

 

Thus:

"In a turn in which a Flyer enters the the board from Reserve, it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it off the board again.", BRB, Pg.80, Zoom.

does not prevent a Flyer from moving onto the board from reserves using Zoom, and then Flat Out off the board the same turn because "Zoom Move" ≠ "Flat Out Move? And "the resulting Move" is only the Movement move, not the Movement Move plus the Flat Out move?

 

If that is your argument then:

"It's quite likely that a Flyer making a Zoom move will leave the board, either deliberately or by accident. If this happens, the Flyer is said to have left combat airspace - it then enters Ongoing Reserves", BRB, Pg.81, Leaving Combat Airspace.

"Models cannot, however, voluntarily move off the table", BRB, Pg.10, Movement Distance

A Flyer can only leave the table while making a Zoom move by way of the Leaving Combat Airspace Advanced Rule. And if "Zoom Move" ≠ "Movement Move plus Flat Out move" then a Flyer can not leave the table at all using its Flat Out Move.

[Morticon]

Touche. You win this one Mort, HOWEVER I do believe that the intention of the designers was that a Flyer should not be able to leave on the turn they arrive from Reserves.

 

 

DV8

 

after typing out the whole debate with you yesterday, I actually thought about that DV8. I thought about why they would have mentioned in the first place, but then realised that if they hadnt it would have not given opportunity to units with interceptor etc.

But aside from that, i did think long about that too !

[Morticon]

If you go first, then just leave the airspace turn two if you come in, then let him come on from reserve. You can always get the drop on him - and with AV 12, fortifications are really the least of your concerns.

 

Allow me to drop my two cents into the mix:

"The distance a vehicle moves influences how accurately it can fire its weapons and how easy a target the vehicle will be if assaulted, as described later.", BRB, Pg.71, Vehicle Movement

"A vehicle can elect to move Flat Out instead of firing in the Shooting phase, immediately moving up to 6"",BRB, Pg.72, Moving Flat Out

So by these two quotes some are arguing that a Movement phase 'Move' is not the same Move as a Shooting phase Flat Out 'Move", correct?

 

Thus:

"In a turn in which a Flyer enters the the board from Reserve, it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it off the board again.", BRB, Pg.80, Zoom.

does not prevent a Flyer from moving onto the board from reserves using Zoom, and then Flat Out off the board the same turn because "Zoom Move" ≠ "Flat Out Move? And "the resulting Move" is only the Movement move, not the Movement Move plus the Flat Out move?

 

If that is your argument then:

"It's quite likely that a Flyer making a Zoom move will leave the board, either deliberately or by accident. If this happens, the Flyer is said to have left combat airspace - it then enters Ongoing Reserves", BRB, Pg.81, Leaving Combat Airspace.

"Models cannot, however, voluntarily move off the table", BRB, Pg.10, Movement Distance

A Flyer can only leave the table while making a Zoom move by way of the Leaving Combat Airspace Advanced Rule. And if "Zoom Move" ≠ "Movement Move plus Flat Out move" then a Flyer can not leave the table at all using its Flat Out Move.

 

 

as stated in my argument above flat out is a speed of a zoom move.

To prove your argument you will need to prove that a flier moving flat out is no longer zooming.

[Zedrenael]

So the sum of this argument is that you cannot use a Flat Out move to go back into reserves. Presented by dswanick

 

"Models cannot, however, voluntarily move off the table", BRB, Pg.10, Movement Distance

A Flyer can only leave the table while making a Zoom move by way of the Leaving Combat Airspace Advanced Rule. And if "Zoom Move" ≠ "Movement Move plus Flat Out move" then a Flyer can not leave the table at all using its Flat Out Move.

 

 

So using this logic and that a Flat Out move is between 12" to 24" it will be you can not voluntarily use that move to move off the board. That because in the movement phase a zooming flyer MUST move between 18" to 36" that move can take it back off the board.

[Zedrenael]

If you go first, then just leave the airspace turn two if you come in, then let him come on from reserve. You can always get the drop on him - and with AV 12, fortifications are really the least of your concerns.

 

Allow me to drop my two cents into the mix:

"The distance a vehicle moves influences how accurately it can fire its weapons and how easy a target the vehicle will be if assaulted, as described later.", BRB, Pg.71, Vehicle Movement

"A vehicle can elect to move Flat Out instead of firing in the Shooting phase, immediately moving up to 6"",BRB, Pg.72, Moving Flat Out

So by these two quotes some are arguing that a Movement phase 'Move' is not the same Move as a Shooting phase Flat Out 'Move", correct?

 

Thus:

"In a turn in which a Flyer enters the the board from Reserve, it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it off the board again.", BRB, Pg.80, Zoom.

does not prevent a Flyer from moving onto the board from reserves using Zoom, and then Flat Out off the board the same turn because "Zoom Move" ≠ "Flat Out Move? And "the resulting Move" is only the Movement move, not the Movement Move plus the Flat Out move?

 

If that is your argument then:

"It's quite likely that a Flyer making a Zoom move will leave the board, either deliberately or by accident. If this happens, the Flyer is said to have left combat airspace - it then enters Ongoing Reserves", BRB, Pg.81, Leaving Combat Airspace.

"Models cannot, however, voluntarily move off the table", BRB, Pg.10, Movement Distance

A Flyer can only leave the table while making a Zoom move by way of the Leaving Combat Airspace Advanced Rule. And if "Zoom Move" ≠ "Movement Move plus Flat Out move" then a Flyer can not leave the table at all using its Flat Out Move.

 

 

as stated in my argument above flat out is a speed of a zoom move.

To prove your argument you will need to prove that a flier moving flat out is no longer zooming.

 

 

You do not need to prove that it is no longer zooming. Flat Out is voluntary move that you can elect to take instead of shooting. So you cannot voluntarily choose this if it will take you off the board. The MUST move in the beginning of the turn is something that MUST happen so that can take you off the board.

[DV8]

as stated in my argument above flat out is a speed of a zoom move.

To prove your argument you will need to prove that a flier moving flat out is no longer zooming.

 

I think the difference, Morticon, comes down to the fact that a Flyer has two "modes", Zooming mode, and Hover mode.

 

Zooming mode allows a Flyer to make a Zoom Move (18"-36") with all the benefits and negatives that entails. A Zooming Flyer can also make a Flat Out Move of 12"-24". The key point is that a Flyer still remains Zooming (it's state of being), while making it's Flat Out Move (which is, I think, an entirely different move altogether).

 

Hover mode allows a Flyer to act as a Fast Skimmer, with all the benefits and negatives that entails. A Hovering Flyer can also make a Flat Out Move up to 18".

 

 

DV8

[DV8]

You do not need to prove that it is no longer zooming. Flat Out is voluntary move that you can elect to take instead of shooting. So you cannot voluntarily choose this if it will take you off the board. The MUST move in the beginning of the turn is something that MUST happen so that can take you off the board.

 

Angling your Flyer so that it's Zoom Move in the movement phase can still be considered a voluntary move. The only exception is that the Leaving Combat Airspace rule permits Flyers to leave the battlefield (and enter Ongoing Reserves) using their Zoom Move (which does not over-rule the stipulation that Flyers entering play from Reserves cannot Zoom Move off the field the turn they come in).

 

At this point, it comes down to the point that a Zoom Move ≠ Flat Out, regardless of the fact that a Flyer is still considered "Zooming" in the Shooting Phase.

 

 

DV8

[Morticon]

You do not need to prove that it is no longer zooming. Flat Out is voluntary move that you can elect to take instead of shooting. So you cannot voluntarily choose this if it will take you off the board. The MUST move in the beginning of the turn is something that MUST happen so that can take you off the board.

 

The rules tell us that a flier making a zoom move may leave the battlefield.

 

I believe that Flat out is a zoom move as it is a movement while zooming as my argument says above.

 

If you believe otherwise, you need to prove (for reasons listed in my argument) why a zooming flier making a flat out move is no longer zooming/making a zoom move.

[Grimtooth]

You do not need to prove that it is no longer zooming. Flat Out is voluntary move that you can elect to take instead of shooting. So you cannot voluntarily choose this if it will take you off the board. The MUST move in the beginning of the turn is something that MUST happen so that can take you off the board.

 

The rules tell us that a flier making a zoom move may leave the battlefield.

 

I believe that Flat out is a zoom move as it is a movement while zooming as my argument says above.

 

If you believe otherwise, you need to prove (for reasons listed in my argument) why a zooming flier making a flat out move is no longer zooming/making a zoom move.

 

The rules do tell us that a flier making a zoom move may leave the battlefield. And I understand your point that Flat Out move is done while you are in fact Zooming. To play Devil's Advocate I would ask you where you get the permission to leave the battfield while Zooming AND moving Flat Out? The rules are clear that,

 

Zooming = may leave the battlefield

 

But I don't see anything indicating that,

 

Zooming + Flat Out = may leave the battlefield.

 

Yes you have fulfilled the bare minimum requirement to leave the battlefield (Zooming) but where do you see permission to add another condition (Flat Out) to that requirement?

 

As to your last paragraph,

 

It isn't about a flier making a Flat Out move not Zooming, it is about said flier not just Zooming and leaving the board, it is about a flier Zooming + "doing something else" leaving the board.

[Ushtarador]

One might argue over the rule: "Models cannot, however, voluntarily move off the table", BRB, Pg.10, Movement Distance

 

Since a flyer must go at least 18'' in the movement phase, it does not voluntarily move off the table, but because it must move this distance. When going flat out in the movement phase however, you can stop before the table edge (unless flyer flat out has a minimum value as well, don't have the rulebook before me right now).

[dswanick]

The rules tell us that a flier making a zoom move may leave the battlefield.

 

I believe that Flat out is a zoom move as it is a movement while zooming as my argument says above.

 

If you believe otherwise, you need to prove (for reasons listed in my argument) why a zooming flier making a flat out move is no longer zooming/making a zoom move.

Apparently you missed my point.

 

"In a turn in which a Flyer enters the the board from Reserve, it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it off the board again.", BRB, Pg.80, Zoom

Does the word "move" in this sentence apply the prohibition on leaving to a "move" performed in the Movement phase only or to a "move" performed in either the Movement phase or the Shooting phase (the Flat Out move)?

 

You are arguing that the prohibition only applies to movement in the Movement phase.

 

"It's quite likely that a Flyer making a Zoom move will leave the board, either deliberately or by accident. If this happens, the Flyer is said to have left combat airspace - it then enters Ongoing Reserves", BRB, Pg.81, Leaving Combat Airspace

Therefore, if "move" only means Movement phase movement then a Flyer may only leave the table during the Movement phase movement or this rule :

"Models cannot, however, voluntarily move off the table", BRB, Pg.10, Movement Distance

becomes meaningless and pointless. These three rules together only make sense if "move" = "all the movement that a model makes in a player turn (Movement phase movement and Shooting phase Flat Out movement).

[Zedrenael]

I would have to say that the "Flat Out" move is voluntary since you do not need to do it. So you can not ever use a "Flat Out" move to leave the table because of the rule on page 10

 

 

"Models cannot, however, voluntarily move off the table", BRB, Pg.10, Movement Distance

 

So at the beginning of your movement phase you choose which mode that your flyer will be in. So if you choose "Zoom" then in the movement phase you must make a 18" minimum move to a maximum of 36".

 

With the rule on page 10 referenced above you can only fly off the table when you leave the table between 1" to 18" not over than cause then you are voluntarily doing it then and that is not allowed. My interpretation of that rule.

 

Then in the shooting phase you can elect to use a "Flat Out" move instead of shooting which is a voluntary action. So you cannot use that to leave the airspace either.

[wabbitrage]

Advanced rules ignore basic ones.

 

Page 7 Basic Versus Advanced

 

So page 10's rule about models leaving the table is mute as the advanced one says they can deliberately

 

Please stop quoting page 10 seriously

 

Page 81 Leaving Combat airspace

 

"It's quite likely that a flyer making a Zoom move will leave the board, either deliberatley or by accident..."

 

Ok So we know players can deliberatley move off the board.

 

The one area where a conflicting arguement exsist is if a flat-out move is a zoom move. To me it is becuase by defination the flyer is a zoomer therefore any moves would be a zoom move in which a flyer was allowed to leave the board. Since a zooming flyer does not swap from zoomer to non-zoomer from phase to phase.

 

To me its very clear cut. Flat out moves are zooming so you can leave the table.

 

interceptor shots can still be taken and you still have to take a difficult terain test. So its not some amazingly OP rule breaker becuase you cannont disembark units or shoot from your flyer in that turn. In my mind its rules as intended.

 

If you really find it such an issue just wait for the FAQ. i don't think for a minute a flyer leaving the board on the turn it comes in to play is gonna break the game. To me it adds to the tactical choices.

[angry man]

if, hypothetically, you CAN use a flat out move to leave the board in the first turn, what is the point in the BRB stating that a resulting move cant take you off the edge. you cant turn before a flat out move when zooming... if you were able to 'zoom' to within an inch of the bord edge and then 'flat out', then suerly that sentence of the BRB is completely moot?

 

AM

[Zedrenael]

So let see if I can make sense of my argument with the BRB in front of me......

 

Rule 1) BRB, PG. 80, Zoom - Flyers can usually only make a special kind of move called Zoom..... If a Flyer Zooms, it has a Combat Speed of 18" and a Cruising Speed of 36"......,a Zooming Flyer can never voluntarily move less than 18".

Rule 2) BRB, Pg. 80, Zoom - In a turn which a Flyer enters the board from reserve, it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it off the board again.

 

I highlight these four things to point that Flyer can make a special move called "Zoom". I underline the voluntary because you can not choose, as a player, to move less than this.

 

Rule 3) BRB, Pg. 81, Zoom and Flat Out - A Zooming Flyer that goes Flat Out must move forwards in a straight line between 12" to 24".

Rule 4) BRB, Pg.81, Leaving Combat Airspace - It's quite likely that a Flyer making a Zoom move will leave the board, either deliberately or by accident.

Rule 5) BRB, Pg.72, Moving Flat Out - A vehicle can elect to move Flat Out instead of .....

 

Alright so the title of the section is Zoom and Flat Out for the rule. So that it deliberately divides the two actions as "Zoom" referring to the move and "Flat Out" as the action.

So referring to Rule 1, a Flyer making a "Zoom move" (Special move called Zoom). So if the flyer zooms it has a speed between 18"-36". Then to rule 3, a Flyer that Zoom move will leave the board. Not a Flat Out "move", rule 5, these are two separate moves.

 

Your rebuttal??

 

-Zedrenael

[dswanick]

So let see if I can make sense of my argument with the BRB in front of me......

 

Rule 1) BRB, PG. 80, Zoom - Flyers can usually only make a special kind of move called Zoom..... If a Flyer Zooms, it has a Combat Speed of 18" and a Cruising Speed of 36"......,a Zooming Flyer can never voluntarily move less than 18".

Rule 2) BRB, Pg. 80, Zoom - In a turn which a Flyer enters the board from reserve, it can do so facing any direction you wish, providing that the resulting move will not carry it off the board again.

 

I highlight these four things to point that Flyer can make a special move called "Zoom". I underline the voluntary because you can not choose, as a player, to move less than this.

 

Rule 3) BRB, Pg. 81, Zoom and Flat Out - A Zooming Flyer that goes Flat Out must move forwards in a straight line between 12" to 24".

Rule 4) BRB, Pg.81, Leaving Combat Airspace - It's quite likely that a Flyer making a Zoom move will leave the board, either deliberately or by accident.

Rule 5) BRB, Pg.72, Moving Flat Out - A vehicle can elect to move Flat Out instead of .....

 

Alright so the title of the section is Zoom and Flat Out for the rule. So that it deliberately divides the two actions as "Zoom" referring to the move and "Flat Out" as the action.

So referring to Rule 1, a Flyer making a "Zoom move" (Special move called Zoom). So if the flyer zooms it has a speed between 18"-36". Then to rule 3, a Flyer that Zoom move will leave the board. Not a Flat Out "move", rule 5, these are two separate moves.

 

Your rebuttal??

 

-Zedrenael

No rebuttal needed. You know the rule, and you know what it prohibits. Your attempts to torture the words into saying what you want them to say instead of what they actual state is pathetic, sad, and WAAC.