After Desh'ea: Some questions

[Grimtooth]

So reading through Tales of Heresy again, I come to the last story in the book. While I of course play the VI Legion, I can truly appreciate good fluff around any of the Legions, both loyal and traitor. Just a couple of questions,

 

1. How did you as WE players like the story of the first meeting between Angron and his Legion?

 

2. Did Angron ever go back to his home planet and do anything against the "high riders"?

 

3. Did the WE adopt a lot of Angron's cultural rituals, specifically the blood rope thing? Did that become part of the WE Legion's customs?

 

4. While this story shows us a very savage Angron, are you happy with the current Angron represented in the HH novels as being a little less savage, but ruthless nonetheless?

[Valkyrion]

1 - I liked it a bit. I didn't dislike it, or love it. The dialogue twixt Angron and Khan is the only bit I re-read every now and again. That's where the juice is.

 

2 - not 100%, but I don't think so. So far anyway. It could make a good story later as Horus' forces barrel towards Terra with Angron making a detour.

 

3 - unless it's touched on in Butchers Nails, which I haven't heard, then it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere.

 

4 - Angron in After Desh is the caged animal - scared, confused, angry. After that book he's just angry. I don't think he's any less savage, just a bit more savvy. He's a bit mental in the Isstvan III battle.

 

WE as a whole have traditionally been pretty one dimensional and (see the butchers nails caveat above) there hasn't been much in the way of a proper WE storyline during the HH series to change that. There are a couple of exceptions - Kharns cameos as his equerry presents a fairly stable soul, as does whasisname in the Garro stories.

But by and large they've been presented as Berzerkers.

[Grimtooth]

1 - I liked it a bit. I didn't dislike it, or love it. The dialogue twixt Angron and Khan is the only bit I re-read every now and again. That's where the juice is.

 

2 - not 100%, but I don't think so. So far anyway. It could make a good story later as Horus' forces barrel towards Terra with Angron making a detour.

 

3 - unless it's touched on in Butchers Nails, which I haven't heard, then it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere.

 

4 - Angron in After Desh is the caged animal - scared, confused, angry. After that book he's just angry. I don't think he's any less savage, just a bit more savvy. He's a bit mental in the Isstvan III battle.

 

WE as a whole have traditionally been pretty one dimensional and (see the butchers nails caveat above) there hasn't been much in the way of a proper WE storyline during the HH series to change that. There are a couple of exceptions - Kharns cameos as his equerry presents a fairly stable soul, as does whasisname in the Garro stories.

But by and large they've been presented as Berzerkers.

 

The dialogue between the two was top notch. I was really into the part where Khârn is describing the battle versus the worms and Angron is reflexively playing out the battle as well. That was really cool.

 

The whole blood rope thing would be pretty sweet integrated into the the Legion modeling wise, both pre and post-heresy.

[Excessus]

I find the WE in The Outcast Dead to a bit more than one-dimensional though...

[Jiron]

So reading through Tales of Heresy again, I come to the last story in the book. While I of course play the VI Legion, I can truly appreciate good fluff around any of the Legions, both loyal and traitor. Just a couple of questions,

 

1. How did you as WE players like the story of the first meeting between Angron and his Legion?

 

2. Did Angron ever go back to his home planet and do anything against the "high riders"?

 

3. Did the WE adopt a lot of Angron's cultural rituals, specifically the blood rope thing? Did that become part of the WE Legion's customs?

 

4. While this story shows us a very savage Angron, are you happy with the current Angron represented in the HH novels as being a little less savage, but ruthless nonetheless?

 

1. I liked it.

2. I think not because (and I am not 100% sure) even he didn't know what planet it was.

3. According to Butchers Nails, not only World Eaters. There is a mention in the audio book, that many warriors made their reputation in WE duelling pit on Conqueror. For example one of the Blood Angels Captain earned a nickname "Flesh Tearer" for his ferocity as well as Black Knight Sigismund. However, the rope is mentioned to become tradition among WE and some individual warriors (in a single sentence however).

4. The story speaks about Angron at the very first meeting with the legion. He has been kidnapped to lead the legion of super-warriors while his REAL battle brothers were slaughtered to the last. I believe, we still have the same Angron but the story portraits him in the moment of absolute anger and despair.

[LaLongCarabine]

From a literary point I truly enjoyed "After Desh'ea" wonderful characterization of the Legion pre-Angron.

 

However that said

 

1. The story finally set me off the rails changing my in progress world eater army into a different form.

 

2. It's Angron, couldn't give a Sh*t what that fratricidal maniac does.

 

3. It seems like that was the intent at the end of the story was that the legion was willing to accept Angron as their genetic forebear and follow his traditions and let him remake their organization.

 

4. Again, it's Anrgon, fratricidal maniac, need we repeat this?

 

My current project is a post-heresy force of XII legionaries the bulk of which are terran veterans who broke with the legion after the heresy. I think Gorfrag might have posted a pic or two of em already on here.

[Caffeineated Chaos]

3. It seems like that was the intent at the end of the story was that the legion was willing to accept Angron as their genetic forebear and follow his traditions and let him remake their organization

Of course they were willing, that's their father, more importantly, unlike our own fathers who we're genetically inclined to fight against due to male territorialism, they're genetically bred to serve under him and be loyal to him, I know the terran astartes tended to be less like this, but it still happened a lot, and the story made it pretty clear through a few insinuations they were pretty savage and melee brutality obsessed to begin with, implying a large portion of angron's behaviours were fairly genetic, not just butcher's nails related(unless we get into some of my crazy ideas where every primarch MUST be a psyker somehow and his subconscious psychic influence affected his sons even as he fought with his gladiator brethren), making them a bit more prone to loyalty to him as they seemed slightly outcast or spurned by the rest of the imperium anyway.

 

The intent of the stoy, to me anyhow, seems to be showing more of Angron's humanity, his despair and sorrow, the true source of his rage underneath the nails, establish the resentment towards the emperor that allowed him to join horus' side so easily. Also to show how his rage was beaten by the loyalty, pride, honor, and reason of one of his sons, and how he was able to see all of his sons for what they were and accept them as such.

 

All that aside, it was awesome, Khârn the Equerry rocks, and I love the story so much.

[Quixus]

I find the WE in The Outcast Dead to a bit more than one-dimensional though...

Well he was definitely captured before Angron started lobotomizing his legion, possibly even before Angron was found.

[Excessus]

I find the WE in The Outcast Dead to a bit more than one-dimensional though...

Well he was definitely captured before Angron started lobotomizing his legion, possibly even before Angron was found.

Not quite. The sergeant has his butcher's nails while the other two doesn't. There is a lot of things about self-discipline and how it's important(he had to focus reeeeaally hard to not kill off the children there at one point, hehe), but he clearly remember taking part in a ceremony with angron...

 

...all in all they describe the WE as very skillful in what they do, not just brutes...

[Onejackshort]

From memory Angron "stops by" his home world on the way to terra and destroys the entire population. Read this about 15 years ago so not completely sure if accurate. And the cutting of the rope described in After Desh'ea, Angron says at the end that he will show them how to do it. Even the colours black for failure and red for success.

 

Oh and D/L Worldeater by Bolt Thrower ... Great for revving up before storming into a wall of shooting.

[Warsmith Aznable]

From memory Angron "stops by" his home world on the way to terra and destroys the entire population.

 

That would make sense. Presumably, the Emperor had a compliance force turn the place into a good little Imperial world following Angron's abduction. With Angron's rebel army massacred, what would be left for him except a monument to his humiliation and dishonor? My guess is the place was drowned in blood and violence sooner rather than later.

[Brother Nihm]

Oh and D/L Worldeater by Bolt Thrower ... Great for revving up before storming into a wall of shooting.

That one and Powder Burns are my all time favourite classics. :)

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Oh and D/L Worldeater by Bolt Thrower ... Great for revving up before storming into a wall of shooting.

World.... Eater...!

[Brother Sergeant Scarus]

So reading through Tales of Heresy again, I come to the last story in the book. While I of course play the VI Legion, I can truly appreciate good fluff around any of the Legions, both loyal and traitor. Just a couple of questions,

 

1. How did you as WE players like the story of the first meeting between Angron and his Legion?

 

2. Did Angron ever go back to his home planet and do anything against the "high riders"?

 

3. Did the WE adopt a lot of Angron's cultural rituals, specifically the blood rope thing? Did that become part of the WE Legion's customs?

 

4. While this story shows us a very savage Angron, are you happy with the current Angron represented in the HH novels as being a little less savage, but ruthless nonetheless?

 

1. Well, I'm not a World Eaters player, but I'm a big fan of the WE in the Heresy Era. So I liked the story, it's funny to see how calm Khârn was before.

 

2. According to Index Astartes ''After the eruption of the Heresy, Angron led his Worldeaters on a bloody crusade towards Terra. En route they destroyed a number of planets, seemingly at random, only Angron knows if one of these was the homeworld of the slavers'' or words to that effect. I'm going to say; yes. He's a Primarch - so that's a formidable intellect, even though he might hide it, a memory verging on (if not) eidetic and he's a singularly vengeful minded guy - I'd be VERY surprised if the last sound the High Riders heard was anything other than roaring chain-axes.

 

3. They definitely adopted the rope (I'm sure it's mentioned on Khârn somewhere) and they also took to pit fighting for trainging, Butcher's Nails implantation. I don't think Angron had cultural rituals, per se, considering his interaction with the people who found him - I'd say they adopted the gladiatorial tennets followed by Angron and his escaped slaves.

 

4. Anrgon is savage, he is ruthless and by the end he's a blood-soaked, nihilistic killer. But to start with there's nobility to Angron and he's alot more shrewd that the other Primarchs/Astartes give him credit for (Butcher's Nails CD). He's an excellent example of 'Nature vs Nurture' in the Primarchs (like Kurze/Mortarion compared to Robute/Rogal Dorn).